Boiling The Frog

[bpw]

I guess we are all rather disappointed at the absence of any correction in house prices. Clearly they are unfair to younger Britons – on the average – and clearly this government has no intent of helping anyone but themselves and their broken notion of the poor.

The future for 'newer' employees in the UK is very bleak and I am no longer surprised by the depressing stories I hear when I visit the UK. In America they refer to 'boiling the fog'. Here is what it means:

They say that if you put a frog into a pot of boiling water,

it will leap out right away to escape the danger.

But, if you put a frog in a kettle that is filled with water that is cool and pleasant,

and then you gradually heat the kettle until it starts boiling,

the frog will not become aware of the threat until it is too late.

The frog's survival instincts are geared towards detecting sudden changes.

As you know I constantly harp on about intergenerational inequity, and it was such a relief to read Lord Turner's report which makes my case more accurately. As he states the under 45s are being slowly boiled and they are oblivious. Here are some examples

1. Average house prices are 5 times average earnings

2. Final salary pensions are denied to you, and instead, many of you are paying contributions into a scheme which effectively subsidizes someone either retired, or about to, with a final salary scheme

3. Taxes are rising dramatically to fund a bloated and inefficient public sector – many of whom ironically retire at 60 on final salary schemes

4. The slump in equities which robbed you all

5. The move to private health care (dentists!)

6. The huge national debt – which you are going to pay for

Perhaps you want to add to the list?

You all know you are being boiled but the increase in heat is just slow enough for you not to jump out of the pot. I would say the next five years is your last chance to rectify the situation. Fail to act and you should kiss goodbye to the comfortable retirements enjoyed by today’s pensioners.

http://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/fables.html

As someone pointed out earlier – you should consider a life supported by social security since clearly Das Neu Labor favors the rich, who hike house prices in London to astronomical levels, and the poor who fit their subconscious model of the worthy.

Edited January 24, 2006 by bpw

[Time to raise the rents.]

The frog analogy can also be applied to housing bears. HP's have crept up & up, you haven't died yet, but you've realised you've become extremely uncomfortable with the fact that you're personal finances are in disarray and you're unable to leap from the spot you're in at the moment........

[Mags]

The frog analogy can also be applied to housing bears. HP's have crept up & up, you haven't died yet, but you've realised you've become extremely uncomfortable with the fact that you're personal finances are in disarray and you're unable to leap from the spot you're in at the moment........

Personal finances in disarray? Are you able to explain that?

[OzzMosiz]

The frog analogy can also be applied to housing bears. HP's have crept up & up, you haven't died yet, but you've realised you've become extremely uncomfortable with the fact that you're personal finances are in disarray and you're unable to leap from the spot you're in at the moment........

How does this apply to people who were at school/uni when house prices were affordable? Or how does it apply to children of today who will want to buy in 10-15 years time?

[Bear Goggles]

The frog analogy can also be applied to housing bears. HP's have crept up & up, you haven't died yet, but you've realised you've become extremely uncomfortable with the fact that you're personal finances are in disarray and you're unable to leap from the spot you're in at the moment........

93% of potential FTBers "died" a long while ago.

Frog soup!

[r thritis]

Good idea - and may Jacques Chirac be the first in the pot.

[marko]

...with the fact that you're personal finances are in disarray...

TTRTR,

Well you may be a slum-lord Mr Rigsby, but at least I am able to construct a grammatically correct sentence. Here is a refresher course for you:

your = possessive adjective

you're = abbreviation of 'you are'

Hmmmm...must be your superior intellect that makes you so much better than us renters. Social Darwinism in action I suppose.

http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/

[CrashIsUnderWay]

You'd probably have more luck teaching the frog to speak. TTRTR has to be the thickest person on this board by 40 IQ points or so. Still buying, cos he's too stupid to think of anything else to do with his time and money.

[Guest]

TTRTR has to be the thickest person on this board

I think he's just one almighty big teaser, like most of the bulls on this site.

He has all the compassion of a big brother that invents ways to get you into trouble with mum.

[BoredTrainBuilder]

Nevertheless I can imagine returning to hpc.co.uk in 10 or 20 years time just to see the same sterile 'internal' debates or obsessions while the rest of the world had moved very considerably on . . . not such a stupid point to make at all.

[sign_of_the_times]

Nevertheless I can imagine returning to hpc.co.uk in 10 or 20 years time just to see the same sterile 'internal' debates or obsessions while the rest of the world had moved very considerably on . . . not such a stupid point to make at all.

then BTB, you are even sadder than I thought..........

[Guest]

Nevertheless I can imagine returning to hpc.co.uk in 10 or 20 years time just to see the same sterile 'internal' debates or obsessions while the rest of the world had moved very considerably on . . . not such a stupid point to make at all.

I can't imagine returning to this site in 10 to 20 years and for the economic situation to have remained unchanged. I imagine a lot will have changed, including the debates. In fact, this site may not exist! Or hopefully won't (at least not without a re-name).

As for sterile internal debates, I think bpw's original post is quite reasonable, although it's just propaganda to appease the older generation.

I'm not convinced about all this "the young are going to pay for everything" argument. For a very very simple reason: You can't be taxed on what you don't earn.

The present day 45 year olds have a shit retirement to look forward to, because apart from the reduction in tax collected from the less numerous younger generation, there's less of us (including all ages down to present day zero!) to run the public services in the future. I would expect to see a shortage of qualified staff at all levels, given the present demographic.

Nobody ever talks about these pretty obvious points, since they're too controversial. The only reason they're too controversial is that the young generation don't get off their arses and vote, whereas the 45+ year old DO.

So, it's essentially all a political butt-kissing-those-who-actually-vote exercise by politicians, seeing only as far ahead as the next election.

EDIT: And who's going to buy the houses of the 45yos when they want to retire and downsize? CRASH (II) Maybe this web site will still be here!

Edited January 24, 2006 by megaflop

[bandylegs]

Nevertheless I can imagine returning to hpc.co.uk in 10 or 20 years time just to see the same sterile 'internal' debates or obsessions while the rest of the world had moved very considerably on . . . not such a stupid point to make at all.

Why do you make these kinds of post BTB? Surely there is a higher brow intellectual debate club that is lacking inspiration and would happily provide stimulation for somebody with your qualities.

[bazzzzzzz]

1. Average house prices are 5 times average earnings

2. Final salary pensions are denied to you, and instead, many of you are paying contributions into a scheme which effectively subsidizes someone either retired, or about to, with a final salary scheme

3. Taxes are rising dramatically to fund a bloated and inefficient public sector – many of whom ironically retire at 60 on final salary schemes

4. The slump in equities which robbed you all

5. The move to private health care (dentists!)

6. The huge national debt – which you are going to pay for

Perhaps you want to add to the list?

7. Disproportionate tax burden on single, childless people

Edited January 24, 2006 by Baz63

[Fancypants]

Why do you make these kinds of post BTB?

the clue is in the name. He's bored!

[Guest]

7. Disproportionate tax burden on single, childless people

No, that's all fixed now. You can marry your mate!

EDIT: Although, that does mean he has the right to switch your life-support machine off. But since the hospitals will be so short-staffed, maybe that won't be such a bad thing after all.

Edited January 24, 2006 by megaflop

[brainclamp]

Seroius points, I think its interesting that the next government - the Tories - are now indistingusible from new labour having done several major u-turns on policies.

I think its because of the boiling frog scenario that this has occured as there is just no reaction - no increased union membership to push wages up, (and lower corporate profits), even though it is very nessacery. (Even Warren Buffet has been hinting about this unusual situation!).

I see this situation, and the very large (near current) liabilities, from the list above, which amount to whopping large taxes on the workforce (even if they are not called taxes).

The ID cards and enhanced police state are about collecting these liabilities and enforcing them.

Edited January 24, 2006 by brainclamp

[Smell the Fear]

Seroius points, I think its interesting that the next government - the Tories - are now indistingusible from new labour having done several major u-turns on policies.

I think its because of the boiling frog scenario that this has occured as there is just no reaction - no increased union membership to push wages up, (and lower corporate profits), even though it is very nessacery. (Even Warren Buffet has been hinting about this unusual situation!).

The delay is caused by the fact that debt is bridging the gap. When the plate spinners can't keep up, the crockery will start to hit the floor. Then there will be action.

Current generations will have to relearn their ancestors lessons about the nature of capitalism the hard way!

[crash test dummy]

Ananlagy accepted.

I presume when the frog boils the medium a.k.a. the water boils and bubbles.

The economy is the water in this analagy, who's cooking?

And they may turn the heat down for fear of complete financial evaporasion and burning their fingers through greed.

But the analagy is good, it represents the media as well, many don't realise how much shizen is thrown.

[gruffydd]

I did something about it - I gave my notice walked out of my job - I couldn't bargain my wages up any further when I worked in-house - I hit the ceiling for my location, and now run my own business - was forced into it!

Wages have been stagnating for so long - often see PR and marketing jobs advertised in central London - senior roles - 20-30k. How the hell can anyone live on that kind of money with house prices and rents as they are?????

It's strange that people aren't fighting back against the status quo - perhaps society here has dissolved to such an extent that feelings of solidarity no longer exist?

Edited January 25, 2006 by gruffydd

[GCS15]

perhaps society here has dissolved to such an extent that feelings of solidarity no longer exist?

It's everyman woman and child for themselves. Has been for a while now. More's the shame

[BoredTrainBuilder]

As for sterile internal debates, I think bpw's original post is quite reasonable, although it's just propaganda to appease the older generation.

I agree, I don't think the original post was unreasonable, although the point has been made before. But that's OK, it was well made this time. Sorry for the confusion.

Why do you make these kinds of post BTB?

Because of CIUW. Doesn't he annoy you?

the clue is in the name. He's bored!

Yep.

[brainclamp]

I did something about it - I gave my notice walked out of my job - I couldn't bargain my wages up any further when I worked in-house - I hit the ceiling for my location, and now run my own business - was forced into it!

Wages have been stagnating for so long - often see PR and marketing jobs advertised in central London - senior roles - 20-30k. How the hell can anyone live on that kind of money with house prices and rents as they are?????

It's strange that people aren't fighting back against the status quo - perhaps society here has dissolved to such an extent that feelings of solidarity no longer exist?

The lack of bargaining power is because of mass immigration. The lack of fight is because jobs are so insecure and you can be out of one in 1 min to be replaced by a lower paid worker. Unions are still out of fashion - but I expect that won't last long. There has never been a better time to join a union.

[Bear Goggles]

The lack of bargaining power is because of mass immigration. The lack of fight is because jobs are so insecure and you can be out of one in 1 min to be replaced by a lower paid worker. Unions are still out of fashion - but I expect that won't last long. There has never been a better time to join a union.

I don't expect the rise of unions any time soon. Low paid immigrant workers won't join unions, many of them are running away from the poverty associated with Eastern Bloc socialism.

I expect a continual rise in the gap between rich and poor. I concur with gruffydd's comments, the only way to escape from wage deflation is to work for yourself or start your own company. If you do well you may just be able to take on some low paid staff.

That's how it works these days, and only when we've destroyed our society to the point at which we get social unrest will things change, I think debt, energy costs and asset prices will play a big part in all of this but I think it may take some time to play out.