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Saving For a Space Ship

Vertical Walking - Manual Elevator uses 10% Energy of climbing Stairs

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wont work on elf and safety grounds...you know, things like top and bottom safety gates.

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1 minute ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:

could they not be added ? 

they need to be fully interlocking and fail safe...it is one of the major costs in a lift.

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Fat people don't climb stairs if another option is available.

There is some sort of link there I can't quite put my finger on.

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8 minutes ago, ccc said:

Fat people don't climb stairs if another option is available.

There is some sort of link there I can't quite put my finger on.

Quite. I can't see any good reason for reducing the amount of energy it takes to walk up stairs.

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3 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Quite. I can't see any good reason for reducing the amount of energy it takes to walk up stairs.

Mentioned it here before but still an eye opener.

If somewhere that has a big set of stairs alongside an escalator and is very busy - stand and watch for a few minutes. An airport or train station are good places.

It's the UK sedentary lifestyle in a nutshell. 

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15 minutes ago, ccc said:

Mentioned it here before but still an eye opener.

If somewhere that has a big set of stairs alongside an escalator and is very busy - stand and watch for a few minutes. An airport or train station are good places.

It's the UK sedentary lifestyle in a nutshell. 

Handy way of getting past the queues at railway stations and airports (although I admit to using the escalators if I've got enough luggage with me).

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Indeed its a nice shortcut.

The amazing thing is it's almost identical for down stairs too. 

Edinburgh airport is a great example. On way into passport control (Can be a nightmare) the final bit is around a corner and to the right down either escalators or stairs. 

I'm usually the only person walking down the stairs saving at least 5 mins of annoying passport control whilst folk stand on the escalator looking across like I'm the strange one.

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As other have said surely you're still using the same amount of energy to raise your body/... you're just spreading out that energy usage between your arm and leg muscles. 

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2 hours ago, ThePiltdownMan said:

You are still lifting your entire body just from a seated squat position. Can't see how that will reduce energy usage by 90%.

Agreed.

Energy is measured in joules.

A joule is a newton meter, which gives us a clue about what energy is. It is the force in newtons, multiplied by the distance traveled in meters. This is otherwise known as Work or work done.

The force on a body can be determined by its mass and its acceleration. This is Newtons second law.

A body on the surface of the earth experiences a force due to gravity. Gravity will accelerate a body by 9.8ms^2. We call this the acceleration due to gravity, and give it the symbol g.

Thus a body of mass m, accelerating at g, is experiencing a force of m*g.

To oppose this force, a surface upon which m rests must react with an equal force of m*g. (Newton's 3rd law).

To raise this surface requires the application of the same force over the distance through which the mass is raised.

In other words, it will require work equal to the force, m*g multiplied by the distance raised, say h.

ie Work Done = m*g*h

Another name for this quantity is the Potential Energy.

As g is a constant on the surface of the earth, the only variables are m, the mass and h, the height through which the mass is raied.

Thus the only way this lift can save energy is either to have the man (the mass, m) somehow get lighter, or the height raised, h, get shorter.

By the way, this is 'o' level physics.

SO WHAT IS THIS THING?

Maybe it is using the counter-weight of others or using a machine to lift a once used counter-weight? Either way, it is not what it purports to be.

After all, it is a machine, and no machine is 100% efficient, meaning a user (who is the sole source of energy) will always have to put in more energy than going it alone.

Maybe the guy who wrote the marketing flannel doesn't understand the word "energy" and is conflating it with force or power (Work/time)? I suspect this is the real issue.

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So the guy says all these people will be living in cities, high rise places.....why would that be an aspiration?...why would anyone who doesn't need or have to live high density, high congestion high rise choose to live there......surely elderly people or even young people with children who do have choices can see there are better choices.....;)  

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15 minutes ago, Sledgehead said:

Maybe the guy who wrote the marketing flannel doesn't understand the word "energy" and is conflating it with force or power (Work/time)? I suspect this is the real issue.

Just listened to it. The narrator uses the word "effort", which technically speaking means "force".

So the guy who posted the vid messed up on terminology when he used the word "energy".

Let that be a lesson to any who watch Youtube vids that concern themselves with generating machines and the like.

Incidentally, those who say we should be taking the stairs, should note that you would use MORE energy with this thing than walking up, so you would necessarily burn more calories and presumably lose more weight. Perhaps a good thing for fatties whose joints can't take the stress of walking up stairs.

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29 minutes ago, Sledgehead said:

Agreed.

Energy is measured in joules.

A joule is a newton meter, which gives us a clue about what energy is. It is the force in newtons, multiplied by the distance traveled in meters. This is otherwise known as Work or work done.

The force on a body can be determined by its mass and its acceleration. This is Newtons second law.

A body on the surface of the earth experiences a force due to gravity. Gravity will accelerate a body by 9.8ms^2. We call this the acceleration due to gravity, and give it the symbol g.

Thus a body of mass m, accelerating at g, is experiencing a force of m*g.

To oppose this force, a surface upon which m rests must react with an equal force of m*g. (Newton's 3rd law).

To raise this surface requires the application of the same force over the distance through which the mass is raised.

In other words, it will require work equal to the force, m*g multiplied by the distance raised, say h.

ie Work Done = m*g*h

Another name for this quantity is the Potential Energy.

As g is a constant on the surface of the earth, the only variables are m, the mass and h, the height through which the mass is raied.

Thus the only way this lift can save energy is either to have the man (the mass, m) somehow get lighter, or the height raised, h, get shorter.

By the way, this is 'o' level physics.

SO WHAT IS THIS THING?

Maybe it is using the counter-weight of others or using a machine to lift a once used counter-weight? Either way, it is not what it purports to be.

After all, it is a machine, and no machine is 100% efficient, meaning a user (who is the sole source of energy) will always have to put in more energy than going it alone.

Maybe the guy who wrote the marketing flannel doesn't understand the word "energy" and is conflating it with force or power (Work/time)? I suspect this is the real issue.

The vertical elevation may be the same, but the horizontal distance traveled is less. So there is a difference in energy expended. The potential energy of the mass once elevated will be the same.

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1 minute ago, LiveinHope said:

The vertical elevation may be the same, but the horizontal distance traveled is less. So there is a difference

The horizontal distance traveled has virtually no resistance, ie no opposing force, so therefore virtually no work is done horizontally. You have to be experiencing air drag to create an appreciable horizontal opposing force. I dunno how quickly you go up stairs, but I'm guessing ... lol

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Just now, Sledgehead said:

The horizontal distance traveled has virtually no resistance, ie no opposing force, so therefore virtually no work is done horizontally. You have to be experiencing air drag to create an appreciable horizontal opposing force. I dunno how quickly you go up stairs, but I'm guessing ... lol

Yes, I'm just splitting hairs with your argument, but walking a distance converts energy, the extreme could be a 5 mile incline to rise 20ft, versus a ladder for the same distance.

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59 minutes ago, LiveinHope said:

Yes, I'm just splitting hairs with your argument, but walking a distance converts energy, the extreme could be a 5 mile incline to rise 20ft, versus a ladder for the same distance.

Perambulation at a slow pace is really about the act of raising oneself and tipping forward. Once you have the forward momentum there is very little effort expended other than in raising yourself to tip forward another step.

Of course, on a staircase, you usually have to stop and reverse direction each half-flight, so you will need to overcome momentum and then rebuild that momentum.

A spiral staircase is a curious example. On the face of it , it requires one to constantly adjust the momentum vector, so seems to involve constant additional effort. However because the force required is at right angles to the acquired motion and hence tangential momentum (force to stay in a circle is directed towards the centre of that circle), no work is done  (other than against air resistance). One's angular velocity and angular momentum are constant so this should be expected., but perhaps more intuitively, since kinetic energy is only dependent on the magnitude of velocity and not its direction, we can see that the man's kinetic energy is not changing, so no energy input is required. But that's another story.

 

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34 minutes ago, Sledgehead said:

Perambulation at a slow pace is really about the act of raising oneself and tipping forward. Once you have the forward momentum there is very little effort expended other than in raising yourself to tip forward another step.

Of course, on a staircase, you usually have to stop and reverse direction each half-flight, so you will need to overcome momentum and then rebuild that momentum.

A spiral staircase is a cThaturious example. On the face of it , it requires one to constantly adjust the momentum vector, so seems to involve constant additional effort. However because the force required is at right angles to the acquired motion and hence tangential momentum (force to stay in a circle is directed towards the centre of that circle), no work is done  (other than against air resistance). One's angular velocity and angular momentum are constant so this should be expected., but perhaps more intuitively, since kinetic energy is only dependent on the magnitude of velocity and not its direction, we can see that the man's kinetic energy is not changing, so no energy input is required. But that's another story.

 

That argument's got some potential

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One gains potential energy by climbing up, and loses it by descending.

if one still has the same PE irrespective of what method one used to climb, and this new method requires less energy to climb, I can see fat people being put to good use in a perpetual motion energy generator.

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Doesn't look like it's compatible with any luggage at all, let alone getting the new bed from Ikea up'stairs'.  So is it intended as an adjunct to a conventional stairs, or are you supposed to have one upstairs window with a hoist for that sort of thing?

Also, I doubt it is safe in an emergency -- conventional stairs do allow multiple persons to use the stairs simultaneously if needed.  Whereas with this thing you'll be queuing up to have your chance of safety. 

Besides, are the stairs the real problem in optimising real-estate area?  At the very least, you can re-purpose some of the lost area as an under-stairs cupboard.

 

 

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