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Guest growl

Incapacity Benefit - Blair Wants Them Out To Work

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Guest growl

Some of you will have heard of this story today. How the government want to take just over a million of these people off the benefit and out to work. Apparently it will be a nightmare to do and take nearly eight years to achieve it.

But my question is why now, and why is it not the chancelor who is promoting this?

My theory?

Gordon Brown needs more taxes. And those of us who work have been taxed and are indebted up to our limits.

But since he is looking at taking over the top job, he can't look like the nasty bad guy who is making ill people go out to work. So he's getting Blair to do the dirty, hoping that the extra revenue saved and made may stave off the coming recession.

Also he needs us to go out and spend more to prop up the economy. But most of us are spent up. More workers - more spending.

And finally there has been a raft of job cuts recently.

This government is desperate, and although we all know that there are scroungers out there, there will be some innocent people caught up in this. A desperate goverment will not look after its most vulnerable. <_<

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Some of you will have heard of this story today. How the government want to take just over a million of these people off the benefit and out to work. Apparently it will be a nightmare to do and take nearly eight years to achieve it.

But my question is why now, and why is it not the chancelor who is promoting this?

My theory?

Gordon Brown needs more taxes. And those of us who work have been taxed and are indebted up to our limits.

But since he is looking at taking over the top job, he can't look like the nasty bad guy who is making ill people go out to work. So he's getting Blair to do the dirty, hoping that the extra revenue saved and made may stave off the coming recession.

Also he needs us to go out and spend more to prop up the economy. But most of us are spent up. More workers - more spending.

And finally there has been a raft of job cuts recently.

This government is desperate, and although we all know that there are scroungers out there, there will be some innocent people caught up in this. A desperate goverment will not look after its most vulnerable. <_<

It will be hard but sooner the better

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Government actuaries producing some frightening figures are they?

"Look I'm Tony and I'm doing something".

I want to ask what and where are the jobs that these people are going to be encouraged into?

In cynical mode I would suggest that this will ensure more Public Sector jobs, both in the advisory functions, and possibly jobs for those targeted.

Another relevant question is whether the Private Sector will be willing to employ people who have previously been officially defined as incapable of work. It might be that "sweeteners" will have to be offered.

Those might be subsidies, clauses in Public Sector contracts or both.

It has the ring of YOPS, New Deal et al.

Iirc, the actual economic benefits of schemes such as these are still debated.

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I'm a bit confused by all this.

I always thought Incapacity Benefit was used by the government (and I actually think it was started under Major???) to make the unemploment figures look better.

Surely moving people off incapacity will just increase unemplyment particularly if there are fewer jobs going around (recent increases in unemployment and so on). Where's the benefit for the government?

And as a previous poster pointed out there will be a lot of genuine people caught up in the chaos and lose out. Thats if they are really going to do anything - they are always going on about this. Didn't Blunkett plan to do something before he cocked it up (so to speak)

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although we all know that there are scroungers out there,

The left has always denied that 'scrounging' is endemic. Having grown - up on a council estate I can safely say 90% of those on illness related benefits were basically freeloaders.

One such couple both 'suffered' supposed back injuries lifting boxes (each within a year of the other), and despite being reasonably intelligent mobile people, they were happy to have thier mortgage interest paid (RTB) and even move - up to a much more expensive property, all paid for by the state.

In most cases such people could of course work but they simply would rather not.

People fought in wars with no legs (pilots), 1 arm etc, yet these poor dears couldnt work because of slightly bad backs... pull the other one.

The left seem unable to face the awful truth that people really are devious and more than happy to watch Trisha all day.

Even today on R4 a classic leftie expounded the notion that most such people 'really want to work'. Typical out of touch leftie. A day on my old council estate would be all he needs to experience reality.

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55,000 people in Glasgow claim IB - an incredible figure! A lot of them are signed off through the stress of their drug or alcohol addictions - how on earth can these people ever join the working population? It just isn't going to happen! I do strongly object to them receiving extra benefit because of their addictions though. Crazy set up

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The left seem unable to face the awful truth that people really are devious and more than happy to watch Trisha all day.

I am from the left and I am perfectly willing to accept that at least a significant minority are working there ticket. I dont think I have ever met anyone on disability who actually was unfit to work, although I am sure such a beast exists somehwere. Bad backs and depression.

Can I suggest that that's why Blair is doing something about it. If you are from a council estate you choose to support a bunch overprivaleged, self serving, crooks and perverts is beyond me. Is it some kind of built in subserviance or something?

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Where are they going to work..?

25,000 manufacturing jobs lost in 3 months..

Stop the scroungers from being able to ahve as many kids as possible..

Allow working people to have kids...

or face the genetic consequences in future years..

It won't be pretty, it won't be clever..

It will be the UK, the next generation..

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Where are they going to work..?

25,000 manufacturing jobs lost in 3 months..

Stop the scroungers from being able to ahve as many kids as possible..

Allow working people to have kids...

or face the genetic consequences in future years..

It won't be pretty, it won't be clever..

It will be the UK, the next generation..

Ahhhh but we need more people to support pensions.....

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what I found most fascinating about the whole thing was the BBC documentary last night.

Odd timing that, for an independent broadcaster, wasn't it? Helluva co-incidence. :blink:

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55,000 people in Glasgow claim IB - an incredible figure! A lot of them are signed off through the stress of their drug or alcohol addictions - how on earth can these people ever join the working population? It just isn't going to happen! I do strongly object to them receiving extra benefit because of their addictions though. Crazy set up

The numbers may be justifiable in Glasgow. In one part of the city (Calton, I think) the male life expectancy is 54 years (UK average = 76 years). That is lower than iran, iraq and a lot of other places.

The cause? self abuse: poor diet, booze, fags, no exercise.

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Guest growl

I've just seen an update to this issue on Sky News.

Apparently they want to copy the Americans. Basically it showed a picture of farm land with pickers.

Now when I was a bit poor seventeen years ago I thought I would go strawberry picking, that it would be easy and fun and I could spend all day in the sunshine stuffing my face. Now I'm not talking about the farms that ask the tourists to strawberry pick. I'm talking about the real job.

How niave was I? It was backbreaking, hot and at the end of the day I made £4.50.

So in America if the doctor says you can work, the government forces you into a low paid job and the pay is the benefit at the end of the week. I don't know exactly how it works. I'm sure some of you can find out if you're inclined.

But having experienced this type of work. I can tell you, it sure as hell made me go out and get a different one. Again low paid, but it was a lot better.

Also when I did the fruit picking, most of the workers were students from Checslovakia ( I know the spellings bad). they were much better than me and sent half their pay home.

That brings up more questions. Because most of our really crummy jobs are done by immigrants. So if they are going to force people out to work, then they will have to tighten immigration.

Basically the government will end up looking like a lot of nasty old Tories, and the Tories will start to look like the nice guys.

But then if its going to take ten years to achieve, then perhaps the Tories would be in power, so they would end up with egg on their face.

Somehow I think there's more to this. Either Bliar is just spouting nonsense - hype with no substance, or this government is leaving little bombs every where. ;)

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Government actuaries producing some frightening figures are they?

"Look I'm Tony and I'm doing something".

I want to ask what and where are the jobs that these people are going to be encouraged into?

In cynical mode I would suggest that this will ensure more Public Sector jobs, both in the advisory functions, and possibly jobs for those targeted.

Another relevant question is whether the Private Sector will be willing to employ people who have previously been officially defined as incapable of work. It might be that "sweeteners" will have to be offered.

Those might be subsidies, clauses in Public Sector contracts or both.

It has the ring of YOPS, New Deal et al.

Iirc, the actual economic benefits of schemes such as these are still debated.

traffic wardens probably...they'll get loads off benefits and be craftily positioned on starting blocks at the end of every street the moment we step out of our motors....hey presto,two taxes for the price of one!!!!

Edited by oracle

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growl,

Was doing the same as you, maybe a couple of years earlier than that. The trick with the agricultural work was to be a bit deft at switching when the crop started getting sparse - top rate I used to be able to get was about £6 and hour on strawberrys with a bumper crop, also did runner beans at 6.00 in the morning climbing through runs covered in dew - came out of it looking like you had been in a thunderstorm, tomatoes - ended up looking like a yellow monster from the sweaty lagoon and bale-bumping looking like Mr Universe. Blackcurrents - used to get African women down from Birmingham in full traditional dress, now they wre impressive - two ways to fill teh bucket - carefully and put the berries (wihout leaves) into the bucket or use when they had (low flat basket jobbies) they used to place the baskket under the bush and just shake the bush like buggery and then sift out the leaves.

Was strawberry picking one day and as everyone was clearing up the tractor contractor was arranging all the pallets at the top of the field, he didn't leave the tractor with the wheels full on parallel with the hill, next thing we knew there was a tractor flying down the hill, driver in hot pursuit, all in vain, it picked up stream and proceed down the hill, front weights pinging off in all directions through the hedge and out of sight. Apparantly it bounced across one road and careened to a rolling end at the bottom of the valley.

Happy days ;-).

Edited by OnlyMe

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Guest muttley

The Incapacity Benefit bill could be reduced by having the claimant's case investigated by an independant doctor,rather than his/her GP.

The current set up allows fraudulent claimant to badger their GPs until they give in.

You might even get to make a 24 hr appointment.

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The Incapacity Benefit bill could be reduced by having the claimant's case investigated by an independant doctor,rather than his/her GP.

The current set up allows fraudulent claimant to badger their GPs until they give in.

You might even get to make a 24 hr appointment.

There are plans afoot to pay GPs to get them back to work. The BMA opposes this, and for good reason in my opinion. Doctors need to stick to what they know, looking after people's health, not acting as an strongarm enforcer for the department of work and pensions.

Arguably, it might be in the best interests of many on incapacity benefit to go back to work (psychologically if not financially).

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It's all lip service to please the voters.

The only compulsion will be to attend an interview. That means that the good people in the system who genuinly want to get back to work will get help. The scroungers will blag their way through the interview and then stay on IB.

BUT TB and GB will be able to produce some figures that say people are going back to work so that's all right then......er no

Why don't they stop badgering well meaning, deserving people and concentrate on targetting fraud instead?

Now that is a thought...get all the people on benefit who want to work back into work as benefit fraud officers. They know the system and it would save the country load's of money.

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THink the NuLabour are planning to put back to work advisers in Drs surgeries.

hahahaha

Absolutely hilarious!.... pmsl...

will this keep inflation down thou, forcing people to accept lower benefits, or work for a bit more money.

Will people not opt for the smaller benefits, and cash in hand jobs? elluding tax, and artificially increasing the unemployment figures, although in hindsight... they will be adjusted or re-classified as JOB SEEKERS... or something!

The problem with inflation at the moment, is it is so easy to get a free house, most teenage girls do it, and now its spreading to older peeps, pretend your single and living in overcrowded accomodation, get a free council flat/house. All rent paid... Then live off the benefits, interest free loans, and ridiculous course incentives that they go on! oh and some handouts from the "unknown father!"

The working option, is work in macdonalds for 150 pw as an 18yo, and you wont even be able to afford a Zero bedroom bedsit (450pm RENT exc other bills), plus slog ya guts out all day! Then have no money left at the end of it! there is no light at the end of the tunnel, just problems.

Or have free accomodation as a single mother, plus get 100 per week, etc as a single mother... spending quality time with your little one. Whilst the bf comes round virtually lives in ya house rent free, working earning money pretending he's living at moms.

The problem here is, the Gap is widening, and the economy is just getting more and more difficult to make the right choices in my opinion. I'm on 3 times more money that I was 3 years ago, and just never really feel flush! So strange!

Bring on the correction! Stop giving house's to free loaders, and reward the workers! It really does make sense! When you reward the workers, you get people into work, for whatever pay!... This country rewards people for placing a bigger burden on society!

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All I remember is that chav on Wife Swap. Her and sprogs on benefits getting 38k, where the other couple both worked and were worse off.

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People fought in wars with no legs (pilots), 1 arm etc, yet these poor dears couldnt work because of slightly bad backs... pull the other one.

The left seem unable to face the awful truth that people really are devious and more than happy to watch Trisha all day.

Give a man a stick, and he will learn to limp.....

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Doctors need to stick to what they know, looking after people's health, not acting as an strongarm enforcer for the department of work and pensions.

Of course if 'Theodore Dalrymple' is to be believed (and I guess he could be lying, but seems to know his stuff), doctors routinely give out sick notes to perfectly fit chavs, if only to look after their own health by not getting beaten up.

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John Hutton who is sorting it out is my MP. Barrow in Furness his area has one of the highest levels of people on incapacity benefit!! Whats happened around our way is that it used to be a large manufacturing town which has reduced drastically the last few years and people are taking redundancy in their early 50's and to keep them off the jobless figures many who will never get or want another job go on incapacity benefit so what will happen to these people many of whom will be fit to do some work is intresting with Barrow having an above avereage unemployment rate as it is

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  • 302 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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