What happens when the system really fails?

[Byron]

Youngsters!

I remember how back in the 1940's my parents were happy to have the larder half full.

[LiveinHope]

18 hours ago, thisisthisitmaybe said:

Make sure

1 - you have a gun

2 - you're a good shot

I've always thought the above is not much use without an inexhaustible supply of bullets.

My thought is that it is more useful to be able to run, hide, and survive from the land, so I try to know what plants I can eat and how to hunt animals.

[LiveinHope]

18 hours ago, spyguy said:

Food and starvation is a funny thing.

Providing you enough protein and carbs you should be OK. You can live on lentils and rice - bith can be stored in a box, without need of a fridge.

Sure its boring but its not starving.

I have dark thoughts about what-if-oil runs outs out. Not for me. Doubt it for my kids. Maybe my kids kids?

I think the world should be genuiely investing in nuclear power. Its just appears a fck up of state corps at the mo.

As I get older and I look at he fcked up area of Africa, which are still fcked up since Sir Bob. I dont think we should have fed them, well, not without birth control. Ethiopia is a total disaster. The BS claim of 'when incomes gets xxk/year then birth rates fall off' is BS as Ethippia is stuck at income ways below that rate and have a high birthrate for aid/cargo cult.

Maybe a bag rice + subdermal birht concrol thang?

Africa continues to disappoint. The place could be heaven on earth - its only around the Sahara that you get fmaines. Loads of fertile ground, loads of cheap labour, water is not too bad in most places.

If there was a place screaming out for capital investment then its Africa - imagine solar grids, nuclear generators piping to Europe, canal system of water, massive train investments. But all that happens is wars and bigmen.

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, dryrot said:

Q: What two things prevent a famine?

A. Democracy and a (relatively) free press.

( Amartya Kumar Sen ). All the major famines (India, Ukraine '30s, China 50s etc) were politically driven. Even Ethiopia was starving due to war and marxist revolutionary policies. Pity St Bob never pointed that out...)

> After watching the recent drama on the Brontes I read that the average life expectancy of the population of Howarth, West Yorkshire in 1848 was 25 years.

I've never really caught the life expectancy but - a huge amount is infant mortality - if you made it to 20 you'd prolly live till 60(?)

Any species is focused upon replacement. Each individual only needs one offspring to survive to reproduce to fulfill that objective.

If lots of children die before reproducing due to famine or disease or toil, then parents have to have lots of children to get one through to reproduction. Children dying in those circumstances seen in Africa or Brontes Britain is expected. Be fit or lucky enough to make it to reproduce and you'll probably live a long and healthily. Intervening with food to save children's lives because lots of children dying of starvation looks awful on TV is not the solution as you just create a greater problem down the line when the short term food aid disappears. What you need to achieve is an improved economy and child survivorship and then, birth rate should drop as very few parents will want 15 children surviving to become adolescents, unless the state provides incentives.

Edited December 31, 2016 by LiveinHope

[EssKay]

3 hours ago, Grumpysod said:

The planet really needs to loose 90% of its population to replenish itself, 99% ideally. Look what has happened despite the radiation threat in Chernobyl, after only decades wild life is flourishing with some species returning after being extinct in the area, Lynx, Bears, Moose etc.

 

Are you volunteering to be part of the 90-99% to be bumped off?

 

[EssKay]

10 minutes ago, LiveinHope said:

What you need to achieve is an improved economy and child survivorship and then, birth rate should drop as very few parents will want 15 children surviving to become adolescents, unless the state provides incentives.

This.

 

And here's a good explanation: 

 

[stormymonday_2011]

3 hours ago, dryrot said:

> After watching the recent drama on the Brontes I read that the average life expectancy of the population of Howarth, West Yorkshire in 1848 was 25 years.

I've never really caught the life expectancy but - a huge amount is infant mortality - if you made it to 20 you'd prolly live till 60(?)

In some parts of England maybe but not Haworth.

All the Bronte children made it out of infancy. Two died before between the age of 10-20. The other 3  made it to adulthood but were all dead before they were 40.

Only their father lived to be old. He survived them all dying at 84 in 1861,

Edited December 31, 2016 by stormymonday_2011

[spyguy]

Yeah but... the maths is reasonably easy. However, we have politicians diverting resources from young to oaps. That needs to stop, Ditto migrants.

Oaps had the best chance to provide for their retirement.Dont lumber working population with their failure.

[janch]

I think we (the plebs) will all gang up and attack the landed gentry in their castles/gated commumnities etc with pitchforks before we get to the point of starvation and eating each other

[spyguy]

1 minute ago, janch said:

I think we (the plebs) will all gang up and attack the landed gentry in their castles/gated commumnities etc with pitchforks before we get to the point of starvation and eating each other

True.

[thisisthisitmaybe]

36 minutes ago, spyguy said:

True.

Nice thought but the aristos have the army in their pocket and we will be VAPORIZED before we reach the gates.

[spyguy]

2 hours ago, thisisthisitmaybe said:

Nice thought but the aristos have the army in their pocket and we will be VAPORIZED before we reach the gates.

Aristos? 2016 not 1916!

[sPinwheel]

2 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Aristos? 2016 not 1916!

Let them eat Jake.

[Noallegiance]

8 hours ago, Byron said:

Youngsters!

I remember how back in the 1940's my parents were happy to have the larder half full.

 

[EssKay]

20 hours ago, Grumpysod said:

Of course not, silly question, just like nobody else would want to or should ever be euthanized. Just saying the good of the earth could do without most of us, Over 90% of species were wiped out by a comet to give way for us, I am sure if the could they would not have volunteered either,

Great - so we've established that you value life (there are actually people out there who don't, and DO advocate euthanasia to control population growth). Glad to hear you're not one of them

 

Next question- why does the "good of the earth" require a 90-99% die off of the human species?

[Wayward]

cannibalism is a recurring theme amongst the Russian peasantry...there have been recent cases reported.

I can see wealth collecting into fewer and fewer hands in the UK and life becoming increasing nasty for many but mass starvation doesn't appear likely in my opinion in near future.

[EnglishinWales]

On 31/12/2016 at 1:28 PM, janch said:

I think we (the plebs) will all gang up and attack the landed gentry in their castles/gated commumnities etc with pitchforks before we get to the point of starvation and eating each other

Tomorrow 9am.

Let's do this.

[One-percent]

13 minutes ago, EnglishinWales said:

Tomorrow 9am.

Let's do this.

I'll be there. Where are we meeting?  I would suggest though that pitch forks might be a bit last century and may not get us far 

[EnglishinWales]

22 minutes ago, EnglishinWales said:

Tomorrow 9am.

Let's do this.

No wait can't we just get 'em with a land-value tax instead? Then we don't even have to leave the house. Boom.

[Big Orange]

On 31/12/2016 at 11:30 AM, John The Pessimist said:

During the famine, Ireland remained a net exporter of food to Britain. Cash crops continued to be exported. This is why the Irish famine is considered by many to have been an act of genocide.

http://ighm.org/exports-in-famine-times/

While there was a  heartless system unfairly rigged against tenants, as it usually is, I don't think there was any coherent policies to starve out "useless eaters", when there's too many random factors decades in the making that coalesced into two Irish famines plus much of the food exported was livestock feed:

Both before and during the Famine, Ireland was exporting and importing significant quantities of wheat. The reason for this is that there are two types. The bulk of the wheat grown in Ireland then, as now, would have been winter wheat. This requires a mild damp climate. It is sown in the autumn, and is only suitable for feeding cattle. The wheat used for bread-making is known as spring or hard wheat, and requires harsh winters and hot dry summers. The presumption, therefore, is that Ireland was exporting the winter wheat which it grew best, and was importing the additional amount of spring wheat it needed for bread-making, as it does today.

In 1844, the year before the Famine, Ireland exported 94,000 tonnes of wheat and 314,000 tonnes of oats, and imported 23,000 tons of wheat. Net exports: 385,000 tonnes.

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In 1847, at the height of the Famine, Ireland exported 39,000 tonnes of wheat, and 98,000 tonnes of oats , and imported 199,000 tonnes of wheat, 12,000 tonnes of oats and 682,000 tonnes of maize. Net imports of 756,000 tonnes, a change of 1,140,000 tonnes. The country lacked the milling, the baking, and the transport infrastructure needed cope with the change in the diet of almost half the population. The maize had to be milled twice.

Link

 

 

 

 

 

 

In 1847, at the height of the Famine, Ireland exported 39,000 tonnes of wheat, and 98,000 tonnes of oats , and imported 199,000 tonnes of wheat, 12,000 tonnes of oats and 682,000 tonnes of maize. Net imports of 756,000 tonnes, a change of 1,140,000 tonnes. The country lacked the milling, the baking, and the transport infrastructure needed cope with the change in the diet of almost half the population. The maize had to be milled twice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In 1847, at the height of the Famine, Ireland exported 39,000 tonnes of wheat, and 98,000 tonnes of oats , and imported 199,000 tonnes of wheat, 12,000 tonnes of oats and 682,000 tonnes of maize. Net imports of 756,000 tonnes, a change of 1,140,000 tonnes. The country lacked the milling, the baking, and the transport infrastructure needed cope with the change in the diet of almost half the population. The maize had to be milled twice.

[Big Orange]

Can a mod clean up my last post? s

Some ad has clogged it up.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

On 30/12/2016 at 6:07 PM, thewig said:

if mob rule does catch on I plan to heat my home by burning DEBTjunkies, the bonus being once you capture a DEBTjunkie you have full access to their back catalogue of whining handwritten letters, which you can also burn once the DEBTjunkies are all gone.

First week of 2017 and we already have post of the year.

 

 

[TheCountOfNowhere]

On 01/01/2017 at 1:36 PM, Wayward said:

cannibalism is a recurring theme amongst the Russian peasantry...there have been recent cases reported.

I can see wealth collecting into fewer and fewer hands in the UK and life becoming increasing nasty for many but mass starvation doesn't appear likely in my opinion in near future.

The events of the last 10 years shows to me that those "fewer hands" really coudnt give a f**k that the rest of us know what they are up to and wont willingly stop robbing from us.

[council dweller]

Quote

 

Well, I started with one strawberry plant 10 years ago and this bed has grown to 80 plants.

Ditto for apple, cherry, gooseberry, red current, loganberry, gojiberry, onions (just planted) etc.

Please note....I don't grow potatoes but why bother, not when they are freely available in the shops.

[Saving For a Space Ship]

 

[Big Orange]

47 minutes ago, hotairmail said:

Actually the truth is far worse. Under the ultra liberal Whig philosophy of the time, nothing was to stand in the way of markets finding their level....including starvation. The political philosophy of the time was very easily adopted by those sat in Westminster as it suited their own personal interests but led to heartless famines in both Ireland and India. The memory of those famines and an uncaring Westminster led very directly to moves for self determination.

Basically, MP';s were under the spell of the seductive and easy thoughts of Thomas Malthus who described famines as "positive checks" (just as we have the seductive sounding "gig economy" today to describe the uncertainty of modern day work for many).

Once you accept the principle of "too many people" (at a time of far lower poulation levels) and a need for it to find its level, it is very easy to sit back and turn your face from any suffering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robert_Malthus

 

So you complety ignore my last post that they were actually importing food stuff (net import of 1,140,000 tonnes) much of the food exported was livestock feed anyway, but unfortunately the Irish starving could not adapt their die and Ireland had not enough transportation to distribute the food relief in time? And Britain was in the grip of a massive railway bubble burst. I don't see evil conspiracy and a deliberate plan to starve hundreds of millions would've consolidated British rule in India to this day.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Big Orange