Home owners (like me) - why are you on here?

[wsn03]

3 minutes ago, rollover said:

  For example: Scope Ambiguity

Yes thats right...im trying to hypnotise everyone. F me, busted already...damn you pesky kids.

[StainlessSteelCat]

I remain on here because I still find the community a helpful and intellectually challenging one which has more than simply house prices on its mind. 

[wsn03]

6 minutes ago, StainlessSteelCat said:

I remain on here because I still find the community a helpful and intellectually challenging one which has more than simply house prices on its mind. 

Good post...thats what I've been trying to say in a round about way, i get a better insight on here than anywhere else (look out im trying to hypnotise you)

 

[Byron]

1 hour ago, StainlessSteelCat said:

I remain on here because I still find the community a helpful and intellectually challenging one which has more than simply house prices on its mind. 

Dang me grey spots, I'm here also, me, myself, alone, personally for the intellectual banter.

[Exiled Canadian]

A few reasons for me:

1. HPI destroys social mobility and increases wealth inequality and increases wealth transfers to the older generation who already have done better out of the welfare state that the current 20-40 cohort are likely to.

2. Increased BTL landlordism destroys community spirit as insecurity of tenure means that tenants are less likely to feel invested in their communities

3. Genuine entrepreneurship is stifled when the perception is that property speculation is a surefire winner

4. An overleveraged population does not make for a robust economy caable of delivering sustainable growth

[Guest]

I wonder if once I've bought a home (here's hoping!) whether I will still frequent these pages .... maybe just the off topic! After 10 years of waiting for a crash I might draw a line under this part of my life and start reading more books

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

I joined in 2007, though I have read the site since 2003. I bought my first house in 2000, at what felt like great expense and was then pushed into a large upgrade by my wife to be around 2003, which was why I was looking at the site - partly as I felt we were paying way too much and because I fully expected prices to collapse around 2005. Whilst there was some accuracy around the prediction, the timing was out by 2-3 years, but even when they started collapsing globally, the U.K. somehow managed to throw everything at the market to keep it afloat.

Even now, the weaker pound caused by Brexit fears will probably keep prices up. After all the Government's only real aim in life is to pay it debts and keep the taxes coming in, whilst keeping the population quite with enough bread and circuses.  A housing collapse can't really happen in isolation, as it would drag down the banks too and as we know they'll do anything to avoid that.

Since having been a struggling buyer 16 years ago, I've now done well out of the ponzi. But to be honest I'd rather have had lower prices throughout the period and have been able to put more into my pension pot. My mortgage and pension fund are now about the same size, and I guess going towards things will now get easier especially if the pound drops further. 

[chicker]

Homeowner with 2 teenage girls both still at school. I want the young to have the chance of having security in where they live , which could be in rental or owning a house.

HPC has helped me realise that good honest hard work wont provide them with that and its unlikely that I/we will provide anything in the way of BOMAD to help our kids .Even a decent university education doesnt offer them a guarantee of success in life but it certainly will provide them with a sizeable debt.

My parents are late eighties homeowners, both requiring full time care and soon their hse will need to be sold to pay for their care costs. I'm not aggrieved by this situation as in the main they have lived a comfortable life (ok WW2 was a bit shit) having enjoyed full employment and most of the time cheap decent housing. Unlikely I will be left with any inheritance to speak of , which saddens them as they have lived a frugal life and hoped to pass something on. For them saving was a virtue and most of the time encouraged by the government

I could be the end of the line for 3 - 4 generations of working class home owners . I imagine my kids generation  will be living at home for a very long time and I don't think thats good for anyone especially the country in general . Eventually  demographics will change the situation as our politicians are incapable of getting to grips with the huge divide emerging between the haves and the have nots.

 

[Smith]

Amused/ surprised/ intrigued to see homeowners on this thread saying they have 'done well' out of HPI. In what sense have you done well if you bought a house and haven't sold it? Is it just about 'feeling' rich? If so, this might be the nub of the problem.

[InlikeFlynn]

Have been following the site since about 2010 but don't post very often.  I was a homeowner then but had to sell to move across the country with work. Rented for nearly 3 years then bought again in late 2013, so I had a direct interest in prices.  Why am I still here? partly for the bearish economics on the main thread, but mostly for the strange and eccentric beauty of the off-topic forum.

 

[Greg Bowman]

19 hours ago, wsn03 said:

There seems to be a few people on here who have homes, and like me on paper probably benefitted massively from HPI. So im just interested to know what draws you to this forum.

In my case ive always felt house prices are far too high, and a social and economic train crash is pending. High house prices don't benefit me as i only have one house, sell it and I'll only have to buy another one.

I couldn't afford to buy my own house now btw. Ive earned more than it but only cause ive done ok out of business.

 

We badly need to lose the obsession with houses, bad news all round. We need productivity. 

 

I come on here for useful insights, very useful. 

 

Joined in 2008 after selling late 2007 and then STR. Bought again in late 2009. Stayed because forum has great insights not just about housing, economics and different ages and different views. Subjects covered are vast so to some extent might question the view this is just a house price forum.

Proof of that is Robert Tracey's book from Zero to Financial Independence a member here since 2007 (I think)

In fact many non housing decisions of mine have been informed by debates and views on here. In fact on a personal basis a lot of my non housing related views have been 'adjusted'  by some heated debates on here

I like intelligent people who can debate all manner of subjects and I find on HPC far more than the average, it's the only forum I regularly post on 

[Greg Bowman]

50 minutes ago, Smith said:

Amused/ surprised/ intrigued to see homeowners on this thread saying they have 'done well' out of HPI. In what sense have you done well if you bought a house and haven't sold it? Is it just about 'feeling' rich? If so, this might be the nub of the problem.

You don't get many of those really do you and it's only a factual statement. Feeling rich if you run a business is more about cashflow and forward order book.

But the unfortunate truth is that banks will lend against bricks and mortar if there is a large amount of equity in it which is handy in uncertain times. I STR as said in the previous post it was risk with a family but I gained 'value' by doing so.

I might be an ex homeowner soon and I am sure the debates here will inform that decision 

[Greg Bowman]

4 hours ago, Kiwi_Muncher said:

I wonder if once I've bought a home (here's hoping!) whether I will still frequent these pages .... maybe just the off topic! After 10 years of waiting for a crash I might draw a line under this part of my life and start reading more books

The key is to keep it on topic and derail it into a petrolhead topic - used to be a lot of those !

[durhamborn]

1 hour ago, chicker said:

Homeowner with 2 teenage girls both still at school. I want the young to have the chance of having security in where they live , which could be in rental or owning a house.

HPC has helped me realise that good honest hard work wont provide them with that and its unlikely that I/we will provide anything in the way of BOMAD to help our kids .Even a decent university education doesnt offer them a guarantee of success in life but it certainly will provide them with a sizeable debt.

My parents are late eighties homeowners, both requiring full time care and soon their hse will need to be sold to pay for their care costs. I'm not aggrieved by this situation as in the main they have lived a comfortable life (ok WW2 was a bit shit) having enjoyed full employment and most of the time cheap decent housing. Unlikely I will be left with any inheritance to speak of , which saddens them as they have lived a frugal life and hoped to pass something on. For them saving was a virtue and most of the time encouraged by the government

I could be the end of the line for 3 - 4 generations of working class home owners . I imagine my kids generation  will be living at home for a very long time and I don't think thats good for anyone especially the country in general . Eventually  demographics will change the situation as our politicians are incapable of getting to grips with the huge divide emerging between the haves and the have nots.

 

Im sorry to hear that chicker.Are they in a care home already?.Could you sell the house now and them rent somewhere near?.Then go to bullion dealers and buy physical gold and silver and er lose it.Also your dad might develop a gambling habit and lose £500 a day cash at the racecourse and you might develop a winning streak on the horses.If they are getting care in their home have you pulled the girls to one side and asked about cash in hand work?.Most of the girls working up here for the care companies will do cash in hand work,i got my auntie sorted that way.Two girls in twice a day for £140 a week between them,a third of the price the council wanted and 1/11th the cost of a home.The girls do it while on their rounds,they love it as extra money that doesnt take away their tax credits and your not paying anyone but the girl.Depends on the level of care needed of course,but it gives them a window to get shot of their assets.

Hope things work out the best for them and you.They are being robbed so the government can stop them helping their grandchildren so that they in turn can keep grafting forever to pay for the 30% of the population who will never work,and so it all ends up with their rentier mates.

 

[spyguy]

2 minutes ago, durhamborn said:

Im sorry to hear that chicker.Are they in a care home already?.Could you sell the house now and them rent somewhere near?.Then go to bullion dealers and buy physical gold and silver and er lose it.Also your dad might develop a gambling habit and lose £500 a day cash at the racecourse and you might develop a winning streak on the horses.If they are getting care in their home have you pulled the girls to one side and asked about cash in hand work?.Most of the girls working up here for the care companies will do cash in hand work,i got my auntie sorted that way.Two girls in twice a day for £140 a week between them,a third of the price the council wanted and 1/11th the cost of a home.The girls do it while on their rounds,they love it as extra money that doesnt take away their tax credits and your not paying anyone but the girl.Depends on the level of care needed of course,but it gives them a window to get shot of their assets.

Hope things work out the best for them and you.They are being robbed so the government can stop them helping their grandchildren so that they in turn can keep grafting forever to pay for the 30% of the population who will never work,and so it all ends up with their rentier mates.

 

There's a very salient point to that, with all the discussion about the cost of OAP care and how council tax is going up.

There's too much admin overhead and too much regulation on OAP care.

If a little old lady is being looked after by an unskilled, unregistered woman whos paid £80week cash in hand then she'll be in receipt of better care than an OAP in a care home with a fleet of regulated care assistants and monitored by the council.

OAPS are not ill, they are old. They are not going to be cured. Just let the die in comfort.

There was a piece on dementia, in all its wierd and wonderful forms. We really need to consider the option of just knocking someone on the back of the head.

[Mrs Bear]

As a homeowner I first came on here because I was so concerned about the effect of crazy house prices on my own children and everyone else's.  

Since then, things have only got worse - not just prices but also the cost of renting.  But sadly I have given up expecting that anything is going to change very much soon.  Back in 2011  I strongly advised my elder not to buy, but to rent for a while, since 'prices are bound to come down soon'.  

Just as well she ignored me, since all they did (at least in the SE) was go up considerably more.  

 

 

 

 

[Mrs Bear]

44 minutes ago, spyguy said:

There's a very salient point to that, with all the discussion about the cost of OAP care and how council tax is going up.

There's too much admin overhead and too much regulation on OAP care.

If a little old lady is being looked after by an unskilled, unregistered woman whos paid £80week cash in hand then she'll be in receipt of better care than an OAP in a care home with a fleet of regulated care assistants and monitored by the council.

OAPS are not ill, they are old. They are not going to be cured. Just let the die in comfort.

There was a piece on dementia, in all its wierd and wonderful forms. We really need to consider the option of just knocking someone on the back of the head.

Yes, all very well, but by the time someone needs the kind of full time care the OP mentioned, that very often means someone on hand ALL day, ALL night, 365 days a year.  Particularly if dementia is involved.  We've had 3 elderly relatives needing full time care for this reason.  By that stage care homes were the only viable option.  We did look into live-in care for one of them, but since carers need breaks, their sleep, and time off, it would have meant more than one person on shifts, and worked out even more expensive than a good (not flash or fancy) care home. 

[crashmonitor]

55 minutes ago, spyguy said:

There's a very salient point to that, with all the discussion about the cost of OAP care and how council tax is going up.

There's too much admin overhead and too much regulation on OAP care.

If a little old lady is being looked after by an unskilled, unregistered woman whos paid £80week cash in hand then she'll be in receipt of better care than an OAP in a care home with a fleet of regulated care assistants and monitored by the council.

OAPS are not ill, they are old. They are not going to be cured. Just let the die in comfort.

There was a piece on dementia, in all its wierd and wonderful forms. We really need to consider the option of just knocking someone on the back of the head.

The wife's mother was in an old age persons home and got through 330k, half lifesavings, half sale of house. Tbh I think that is how it should be, trying to recycle inherited wealth is part of the problem re. our ridiculous house prices. Houses don't have to be bought anymore, it becomes a birth lottery. that's why looking at prices to earnings ratios is no longer relevant.

Also why should future generations have to pay the debt for my mother-in -law, she paid in full and left diddly squat when she diied as it should be.

And if care homes fees don't get through the legacy we need to look at penal inheritance tax, as after all each passing soul has had a 250k smash and grab raid on the Exchequer on average through unfunded retirement and health benefits.

Edited December 30, 2016 by crashmonitor

[FirstTimeBonkers]

2 hours ago, Smith said:

Amused/ surprised/ intrigued to see homeowners on this thread saying they have 'done well' out of HPI. In what sense have you done well if you bought a house and haven't sold it? Is it just about 'feeling' rich? If so, this might be the nub of the problem.

Interesting question.

I think it's possible to confuse the benefits of having bought a number of years ago, with the "benefits" of HPI, which aren't actually benefits at all unless you're looking to reduce your exposure to the housing market by downsizing, moving abroad, or STRing.

In my own case, I bought 6 years ago purely to escape the precarity of renting. In that time, the rental expense not incurred has covered nearly half of the capital cost of the house. Interest/maintenance/insurance costs have been relatively inconsequential. But the effect of 70% HPI has been to increase the extra capital required to upsize, which is not a benefit.

So I feel I have "done well" financially by buying a house and not selling it, but only in two senses: 1) transforming an expense into an asset and 2) (in hindsight only) by taking a position in a rising market. This is purely a benefit of "having bought", not of HPI.

I certainly don't feel rich. I've merely taken a position in a market with which I will have to transact again should I wish to trade up, and am thus, with HPI, in a better position than if I hadn't entered that market 6 years ago. Due to the effect of leverage and taxation, I would have had to make entirely unrealistic returns in other asset classes to be in the same position now.

[iamnumerate]

21 hours ago, winkie said:

I am a homeowner but have never benefited because the faster I tried to repay the loan the greater the distance the next rung becomes.....takes many years of hard work to pay for a home outright, only then will the monthly mortgage commitment disappear, but living in a home still costs taxes and money to run....it only then  becomes dead money liability, not an asset you can spend without incurring more debt that requires extra income, but what it does give you is time and better choices....no gain without pain.

The only thing that counts is the price you pay and the price you sell, if you sell.....value other than that means nothing, zero, zilch.

+1

[Lovely Rum]

been trolling since around 2007. was trying to buy at the time but the financial crisis happened and i thought house prices would take many years to reach such stupid levels. i didn't think any of osbornes little schemes to inflate prices would work but i was very wrong. bought a 3 bedder in newham 2015 with a large deposit on a 25 year mortgage which i intend to pay off in 10.

i still want a crash because i'm sick of people i'm forced to associate with talking about how much their house is worth like they're really clever investers and how many btls they own

[Byron]

I am a home owner (outright)

Don't really know what its worth now, I paid £55k in 1986.

Seemed a lot of money then.

The value of my home is of no concern to me, I don't want to move.

Only my children might benefit in the rise in value since I bought it.

I suppose that I could sell and rent, but I don't need the money anyway.

Perhaps when I am older, an old person's flat might suit me.

[Si1]

1 hour ago, FirstTimeBonkers said:

. This is purely a benefit of "having bought", not of HPI.

 

?

[renting til I die]

20 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Quote

What do I really want now?

I want vengeance. I want the over exposed and over reaching idiots to be ruined by a savage correction.  I want suffering. I want foreign investers to be screwed. I want banks to fail. I want vengeance Cersei Lannister style.

What up with this new quoting system? Seems a little buggy. I can't select outside of the box?

I'm on the same page as GrizzlyDave. I want a savage correction and for the delusion of one way, no risk, housing investment to be gone for several generations. Even if this affects some of the assets I hold.

I rent, for something around the 3.5% yield mark. Seems reasonable but the monthly out-goings are still high, when you also consider that my bills for this dump are higher than what they would be if I had my own place, all done up and insulated right. I don't want to sound too bitter, but I should have bought some shitty little box when I had a chance around 2009/2010, mortgage would have been gone by now, so I would be sitting pretty and rent free, although who knows what I would be spending on DIY and maintenance? I'm guessing, not half as much as my rent!

I post less since the forum update and I only have been reading occasional treads, this one caught my eye.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by renting til I die

[Everythingsamess]

19 hours ago, Sancho Panza said:

Realist Bear,the legend that was.He bought a house circa 2011 or so I believe.

Makes you think of some of the other posters who made you laugh/cry/rage against the machine-Bart of Darkness,Ayatollah Burgheri,SMAC 67,Captain Skellan,Carribean Beauty(last three of the epic chav holiday thread)to name but a few.

Thats it. Realist Bear. I liked him.