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The UK net borrowed £12.6Bn in November 2016

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1 minute ago, Democorruptcy said:

From the link

"The government's ultra-low cost of borrowing, in the last two months, has become more expensive. That might mean Philip Hammond has to borrow more, just to keep up the interest on his debts. "

Borrow to pay the interest on the borrowings.  A recipe for success... 

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8 minutes ago, wish I could afford one said:

Borrow to pay the interest on the borrowings.  A recipe for success... 

At least the BoE will give the governbankment the interest back on the gilts that they buy with QE. The day that happens the BBC will be overjoyed about the public finances.

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What I want to know is, how much of the national debt (of any) consists of gilts from the bank bailouts.  What I can see is the national debt more than doubling in the couple of years following the bailouts, but that's not the same thing.

Basically what I want to know is, if a bank were to relocate to (say) Frankfurt, how much money would we be due back and could be wiped off the national debt.

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19 minutes ago, kzb said:

Basically what I want to know is, if a bank were to relocate to (say) Frankfurt, how much money would we be due back and could be wiped off the national debt.

There would be no impact in the short term as there wouldn't be an immediate "repayment"

 

Any benefits to the public purse of banks relocating would only be for any future loans/bailouts 

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36 minutes ago, Democorruptcy said:

At least the BoE will give the governbankment the interest back on the gilts that they buy with QE. The day that happens the BBC will be overjoyed about the public finances.

I hope they'll remember to mention the additional £100bn that Carney's putting on the national debt this year and next with his 'Term Funding Scheme'. <_<

https://www.ft.com/content/a17d8ff4-864a-3a34-84d8-a7c5c128d7fe

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22 minutes ago, EssKay said:

There would be no impact in the short term as there wouldn't be an immediate "repayment"

 

Any benefits to the public purse of banks relocating would only be for any future loans/bailouts 

But that shouldn't be allowed should it?  This is what I am getting at.  If, (for arguments sake) that bank had benefitted from £50bn of bailouts and QE, that money has been added to our national debt to be paid off by future UK taxpayers.

If it were to relocate to Frankfurt, that £50bn should be wiped off UK debt and added to German debt.

I know I am p***ing in the wind, but I think this issue needs a bigger profile with all the threats of relocation due to Brexit.  Arguably the total is £850bn (although predictably enough no-one is really sure).

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5 minutes ago, kzb said:

If it were to relocate to Frankfurt, that £50bn should be wiped off UK debt and added to German debt.

Good point. 

 

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18 minutes ago, EssKay said:

@kzb - No it shouldn't be allowed but there's feck all chance of anything being done about it.

 

 

I've asked the question at the Dept for Brexit this week.  No response so far.

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1 hour ago, canbuywontbuy said:

The good news: the UK balanced the books in November!

The bad news: they had to borrow £12.6Bn to do that. 

The good news: nobody cares.  It's just future-problem stuff.  We don't live in the future, so no worries.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-38390121

It's a bit of a non-story really.

Better than expected month in October, worse than expected in November.  Still on target overall. 

There's no problem because we can pay £5bn into a holding account for overseas aid and get charged £240 million for looking after it.  We can pay £269 million (?) to extend the BBC World Service.  These are not the actions of a state worried about debt.

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25 minutes ago, kzb said:

If it were to relocate to Frankfurt, that £50bn should be wiped off UK debt and added to German debt.

A very interesting point you've raised...

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Will there ever be a point where all collected UK taxes (e.g. income tax, VAT, CGT etc etc) are just going to pay the interest on the debt? If so, how long until we get to that point?:blink:

Edited by fru-gal

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12 minutes ago, fru-gal said:

Will there ever be a point where all collected UK taxes (e.g. income tax, VAT, CGT etc etc) are just going to pay the interest on the debt? If so, how long until we get to that point?:blink:

Interest is currently £41.4bn p.a,  The total tax revenue is £660bn p.a.

We are currently paying about 6% of our taxes to pay interest on government debt.  So there is some way to go yet.

This is probably not the full picture as there are things like PFI which won't make things look better if they were included.

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4 minutes ago, kzb said:

Interest is currently £41.4bn p.a,  The total tax revenue is £660bn p.a.

We are currently paying about 6% of our taxes to pay interest on government debt.  So there is some way to go yet.

This is probably not the full picture as there are things like PFI which won't make things look better if they were included.

How much is the debt and do we have an interest only agreement or does that amount include some of the debt?

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1 hour ago, fru-gal said:

How much is the debt and do we have an interest only agreement or does that amount include some of the debt?

I think the debt is constantly increasing with the interest.  National Debt clocks are available here:

http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/

When I looked UK debt was £1.667 trillion, but increasing at several thousands of pounds per second.

 

 

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22 hours ago, kzb said:

I think the debt is constantly increasing with the interest.  National Debt clocks are available here:

http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/

When I looked UK debt was £1.667 trillion, but increasing at several thousands of pounds per second.

 

 

Over 400 billion of that (about 1/4 of the total) is QE-ed, which will never be repaid anyway.

Stand by for even more QE if interest rates start to rise.

 

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2 hours ago, Sour Mash said:

Over 400 billion of that (about 1/4 of the total) is QE-ed, which will never be repaid anyway.

Stand by for even more QE if interest rates start to rise.

 

Those that seem to think we can just inflate the debt away and anally shaft all those poor buggers that bought our bonds at 1% may need to rethink. Sure you can get away with it once, if you think there will be suckers lining up next time to fund pensioner triple locks and the like they are sadly mistaken. No credit, no welfare fix and living beyond our means. Then we will know what austerity really means.

Edited by crashmonitor

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15 hours ago, crashmonitor said:

Those that seem to think we can just inflate the debt away and anally shaft all those poor buggers that bought our bonds at 1% may need to rethink. Sure you can get away with it once, if you think there will be suckers lining up next time to fund pensioner triple locks and the like they are sadly mistaken. No credit, no welfare fix and living beyond our means. Then we will know what austerity really means.

On the contrary, the fact that they HAVE seemed to get away with it just makes it more likely they'll keep doing it.

 

Why stop doing the thing that has facilitated a massive transfer of wealth from the plebs to you and your chums and somehow kept the plates spinning?  Especially when the alternative is a global financial crash of near apocalyptic proportions and lots of angry people.

 

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They should use 500 million of this borrowed money to buy gold bullion for the national reserve. And do the same every month from now on.

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