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Annoying things people have said to me about houses


btd1981
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23 minutes ago, Si1 said:

Wow factor just means narcissism factor

Absolutely, selfish too. They like to feel superior to their kids by having a huge house, I kid you not; even though it is far to big for them and is starting to crumble around them.

"how do you manage with only one bathroom?"

Because boomers like you have Fooked the economy!

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2 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

"I don't know how you do that drive every day"

my parents, a 90min car trip each way to work (for the last 10 years); yes that's the cold reality of modern working.

"the garden is too small and it doesn't have the wow factor"

my parents, when I send them a property that they could downsize to, (we are taking houses in the £500-£650k bracket here, detached, charming, 4-5 bed). And this is BEYOND any home their kids could ever dream of.

I think my parents like being richer than their children as well.  I however hope my daughter can afford a decent home.

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36 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

I think my parents like being richer than their children as well.  I however hope my daughter can afford a decent home.

I can understand wanting to impress and show off to your friends and maybe your siblings and parents even. I can understand that; though it's not me. But your kids, showing off to your kids is just selfish.

I am now at the stage in my life where I will make do and mend the small modest house I own, and put the bigger house fund into my kids future.

Plenty, if not nearly all of my peers and friends have had BOMAD help, Christ if we had help in the early 2000's we'd have a nice family home at an affordable price. It's tough to see others get that support. But I am fortunate still to own when younger than myself are totally priced out.

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The housing market is the opium for averageness. Average people can feel speciai / more talented / hard working / self made etc.

The same politics behind giving kids good grades and smiley faces for mediocrity.

Perhaps similar politics behind why grammar schools ended. Not enough kids from poor areas going to them? Do something about it? No. shut them down and punish the poor kids who do get in.

 

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  • 1 month later...

"Nobody has a right to affordable housing"

Neither does the entire human race have a right to not get hit by an extinction sized meteor. My only issue is context, which is that we live in something called a society with taxes, laws, a police force, NHS and education etc. with 0% VAT on food due to a principle that everyone has a right to not die of starvation. All of this as a construct of what we define as the kind of society we want to live in.

"Property is my pension"

No it's not. The person who buys it off you is your pension.

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On 06/01/2017 at 1:04 PM, GrizzlyDave said:

I can understand wanting to impress and show off to your friends and maybe your siblings and parents even. I can understand that; though it's not me. But your kids, showing off to your kids is just selfish.

I am now at the stage in my life where I will make do and mend the small modest house I own, and put the bigger house fund into my kids future.

Plenty, if not nearly all of my peers and friends have had BOMAD help, Christ if we had help in the early 2000's we'd have a nice family home at an affordable price. It's tough to see others get that support. But I am fortunate still to own when younger than myself are totally priced out.

I have immense empathy with what you are saying.

My dad loves looking down his nose at me and judging. He received significant inheritances from my grandparents when I was a child and has sat on them in a building society account ever since. I suspect my grandparents would not have approved.

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37 minutes ago, Si1 said:

I have immense empathy with what you are saying.

My dad loves looking down his nose at me and judging. He received significant inheritances from my grandparents when I was a child and has sat on them in a building society account ever since. I suspect my grandparents would not have approved.

I am not in the same situation as you, but it amazes that my parents want their children to live in smaller homes than them and grandchildren even smaller.  If things don't change I can easily see my grandchildren (if I ever have any) sleeping in their car - at least everything will be digital by then so lack of space for books and music won't be a problem.

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3 hours ago, Si1 said:

I have immense empathy with what you are saying.

My dad loves looking down his nose at me and judging. He received significant inheritances from my grandparents when I was a child and has sat on them in a building society account ever since. I suspect my grandparents would not have approved.

Can't take it with you, eh.....?

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On 18/02/2017 at 10:19 AM, iamnumerate said:

I am not in the same situation as you, but it amazes that my parents want their children to live in smaller homes than them and grandchildren even smaller.  If things don't change I can easily see my grandchildren (if I ever have any) sleeping in their car - at least everything will be digital by then so lack of space for books and music won't be a problem.

Many of us want no such thing.  Many of us do help our children - but anyone who dares to say so on here is likely to get  abuse/be accused of financial illiteracy by people who know nothing about our circumstances.   (if we'd been financially illiterate I doubt we'd have been in a position to help - we'd have done the stereotypical boomer-hate thing and blown spare cash on Saga cruises, flash cars, etc. )  

Though I will admit that I'm about to blow a few K on having my clapped out, very old acoustic piano converted to a digital, so I can practise in summer with the windows open, without driving the neighbours mad.  

 

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12 minutes ago, Mrs Bear said:

Many of us want no such thing.  Many of us do help our children - but anyone who dares to say so on here is likely to get  abuse/be accused of financial illiteracy by people who know nothing about our circumstances.   (if we'd been financially illiterate I doubt we'd have been in a position to help - we'd have done the stereotypical boomer-hate thing and blown spare cash on Saga cruises, flash cars, etc. )  

Though I will admit that I'm about to blow a few K on having my clapped out, very old acoustic piano converted to a digital, so I can practise in summer with the windows open, without driving the neighbours mad.  

 

Good for you, I don't think all older people think that - but many do seem happy to get houses more expensive.

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18 minutes ago, Mrs Bear said:

Many of us want no such thing.  Many of us do help our children - but anyone who dares to say so on here is likely to get  abuse/be accused of financial illiteracy by people who know nothing about our circumstances.   (if we'd been financially illiterate I doubt we'd have been in a position to help - we'd have done the stereotypical boomer-hate thing and blown spare cash on Saga cruises, flash cars, etc. )  

Though I will admit that I'm about to blow a few K on having my clapped out, very old acoustic piano converted to a digital, so I can practise in summer with the windows open, without driving the neighbours mad.  

Would really like to see some examples backing your position of abuse and financial illiteracy there.

Seems a bit touchy.

Disagreeing forcefully, or offering up alternative perspectives, is not abuse - it is engagement and discussion to open up and establish more of where the truth is.  

I could put up the view that closed minds resort to claims of 'abuse' when they don't like their positions/outlooks challenged.  Seen enough emo reactions in my time.

I help my loved ones too.  Contributions to ISAs and other smaller gifts.   :)

My position is that those who choose to give BOMAD to buy houses in this market, make/made their own choices to do so, and the same for adult recipients of the monies.  

Just as those of us who give to ISAs are making their own choices for our loved ones (although <16 have no choice whether to accept the monies or not, really).

What is wrong with that?   

Similarly when posters offer up a very narrow view casting those buying BTL properties as "simply looking for income", and that they "don't understand pensions or shares"  - I offer up a wider view that many BTLers make/made their own choices in a supply and affordability squeeze around them, and that many are greedy.   Life isn't fair and if it is losses for BTLers ahead (or price falls for BOMAD helpers), that is their position to absorb, and not for renter-savers to carry, for the special BTLers who were "only seeking more income"-.

11+ BTLs etc; how much is enough.   1, 2 or more houses.  BTL is an active housing financialisation choice, given the situation for millions of younger people.  

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Well, if prices drop and our BOMAD contributions melt away, so be it.  The cash was gifts, not loans, nor did it come from equity release.  

Our kids both had sizeable deposits of their own, which we added to, to increase their choice slightly in what is a relatively expensive area.  If their own deposits melt away - unlikely unless there's a huge crash - they will no doubt be gutted, but they knew it was a risk they had to take if they didn't want to be at the mercy of landlords who might decide to kick them out with a couple of months' notice.  Particularly applicable to our elder and son in law, who have  two very little ones.  

Might add that while I don't begrudge the money in the slightest, I wish for the sake of everybody's kids that BOMAD would never be necessary.  

Though presumbly it's always been around - in the late 60s  an uncle bought a London flat outright for my cousins to,live in.  I don't remember being particularly envious.  Their folks had always been way better off than mine -  it was just the way things were.  Though I do remember as a kid envying their proper, brick-built Wendy House in the garden.  Luxury indeed when you were  5 or 6.  

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53 minutes ago, Mrs Bear said:

Well, if prices drop and our BOMAD contributions melt away, so be it.  The cash was gifts, not loans, nor did it come from equity release.  

Our kids both had sizeable deposits of their own, which we added to, to increase their choice slightly in what is a relatively expensive area.  If their own deposits melt away - unlikely unless there's a huge crash - they will no doubt be gutted, but they knew it was a risk they had to take if they didn't want to be at the mercy of landlords who might decide to kick them out with a couple of months' notice.  Particularly applicable to our elder and son in law, who have  two very little ones.  

Might add that while I don't begrudge the money in the slightest, I wish for the sake of everybody's kids that BOMAD would never be necessary.  

Though presumbly it's always been around - in the late 60s  an uncle bought a London flat outright for my cousins to,live in.  I don't remember being particularly envious.  Their folks had always been way better off than mine -  it was just the way things were.  Though I do remember as a kid envying their proper, brick-built Wendy House in the garden.  Luxury indeed when you were  5 or 6.  

Fine, they took the risk.  If they are gutted than that's the way it is, in event of HPC.   :)

You accept they are market participants.  Got the house they wanted (bit of BOMAD help from cash savings / premium bonds), and no longer have a BTLer variable in the mix about 2 months notice.  Good. :)  They got what they wanted.

I don't like being at 'the mercy' of BTLers either (whatsoever), but I prefer it vs my own market view about house prices.  I would rather the BTLers take the balance sheet risk with what I see as very over-valued houses, with prices I am unwilling to take.   Others see/saw market as stable, and not likely to fall.  Dribs and drabs. 

I know all about being 'gutted' as well, during years of zirp, QE reflation + BTLer double-down, far higher house prices than 2008 (40%).  

I openly admit my position has been worsened by being on wrong side of market events, and take ownership for my renting choices.  Still of a mind where I believe HPC is possible - or at least not willing to pay these prices in this area.

Really not sure what point you are trying to make when you raise the topic of 'envy'.   Could you explain it?

Neverwhere, on 15 Mar 2016 - 08:45 AM, said:snapback.png

One can also be legitimately pissed off about something without being at all bitter or hateful. Assuming that expressing that on a forum dedicated to that particular subject means that it consumes the rest of one's life also seems wildly off base to me.

Neverwhere, on 15 Mar 2016 - 4:23 PM, said:snapback.png

Passion born out of deep and abiding concern for the quality of life of one's loved ones is the opposite of bitterness and hate.

 

phantominvestor, on 26 Jul 2015 - 3:23 PM, said:snapback.png

[...] As we found out from this landlord's mindset it is about status, about wealth and other glorious human virtues. From the tenants perspective, it's about fairness and a place to live and not feel exploited.
 
From the landlord perspective, we are all jealous psychopaths because we cannot afford a house. 

 

Well, no. We're annoyed because you priced us out with a system that has so far, only benefitted the landlord class.
 

 

phantominvestor, on 26 Jul 2015 - 1:39 PM, said:snapback.png

 

Quote

Some of them are quite jealous, too, of course and bitter and vengeful. Personally I don’t give a bee baa boo if someone has got more money than me – but for some this is disastrous. And if you think about it, these are the supporters of the kind of anti-landlord campaigns run by Shelter and so of course they’re over the moon at this Budget proposal, which has pandered to their psychological problems and feelings of failure, perhaps (can’t generalise too much, as all kinds of psychoses and sociopathies could be at play here).

 
 
You psychological projection is off the scales. There are wealthy people on HPC and no, they are not jealous.   Historically people could afford somewhere to live.   Unfortunately, that has changed.   It is not jealous to want food to eat.   It is not jealous to want water to drink.   Nor is it jealous to want to own the land that you live on.    It really has nothing to do with comparing yourself to others which is what you think it isThis is how you think of the problem. But this is not how we think of the problemYou have taken your own view of the world and applied it to us and which we obviously do not have. You admit we are clever, we do not pretend to bePlease read more of what we say and try understand and do not let your natural human defence mechanisms prevent you from understanding what we say. 

 

Many of us could buy a home today if we wanted (deposit ready / and likely to be approved for mortgage) but choose not to buy.   And I (and others) have in mind all the younger people who are totally priced out (by buyers who have been paying higher prices, year on year), who have no option but to rent vs these prices in many areas, vs a chasm in positions between BTLers wealth and older owner HPI long-wave mad-gainz.  (Not envy, but a statement based in reality)

Been inside high value houses myself, as guest of family friends.  Not envying anything then or now.  Including that of one owner who turned down £2m in 2005 and still owns it.  Many such houses are a turn-off for me as well.   Didn't envy the house of a pal growing up, and he lived next to a Premiership footballer.  Had some great times, but never envy.  I'm glad the owners enjoy them, but I am not in the market for such houses.   I doubt you would 'envy' the type of house I hope to one day buy.   Just basic every day house.  In this market, they are way too expensive, from my market perspective.  And a perspective formed by seeing BTLers outbid people for such houses, year after year, (causing HPI+++) and putting those house on rental market.

I'm not there envying anything on the owner, or the buyer side (but also not feeling sorry for buyers - they make their choices to pay these prices).

I don't think many on HPC envy it either.   

They are simply focussed on their own positions.   Some HPCers know I am not materialistic at all (either are they).   Yes we do compare and contrast what positions have bought down the ages, but that's reasonable thing to do, in trying to assess the market.  (What older owners paid for their homes, x income, vs lot of HPI+++ 500%, and sat on top of £Trillions in equity)

What I do stand against is housing financialistion.  Houses for younger people at blistering price levels and many multiples of income, and BTLers with 3 houses in a row (and more houses in their BTL 'portfolio') - and those who go BTL for 'an income' - their choice in a supply and affordability big squeeze on the young.  Who can't afford/won't pay these prices, which is worsened directly because of such BTLer active involvement as looking at property as 'investments' for them, to take rent from, and hope for HPI+ from.   

All I want is a small house I can micro-out, but even that is £300K+ in the areas I would like to eventually buy in.  For now, I am not willing to pay it and have hope of better value emerging in future.  Whereas others in market believe that £300K is good value, and often expect more HPI+ ahead (or no risk of HPC... for many different reasons, inc too few homes, Gov won't let it happen, wall of Chinese money, BOMAD, retirement funds, pension funds will step in, etc etc etc - their market viewpoints).  Of course I could capitulate if market goes against me and end up buying in a lower value area, but it is okay to hold position for area you want to buy in, just as your own kids have done (expensive area).

Market out there, and we make our choices to what we will pay, and/or help others to pay, and those are are own soverign choices.  And we each have a market view, including No HPC for some, but others see HPC risk.

Don't feel any envy whatsover.  I am HPC for reasons above.  Those who buy (and millions bought last 8 years) take their positions.  Including the BOMADS.  My position is simply that renters don't exist to bail out homeowning neighbours, in event of values falling ahead.

Market. :)

For BTLers it's a different dynamic, from my perspective as non-owning renter-saver.  There are good reasons that some renters have resentment to those who have been active in housing financialisation for profit.. or 'income' in a supply and affordability squeeze.

BOMAD money is not necessary.  No one has to offer it to help someone buy, and no one has to accept it.  It is a choice.   In part, together with BTL, BOMAD money may have been another HPI+ big price lift to the market.  If not you, then BOMADs before.

 All of us in the market, including outright owners (who may one day miss the peak and regret not selling up sooner), are in the market.   

Recently buyers, BOMAD powered buyers, equity rich owners, low equity owners, are in the market + renters. 

We are all in market.  Life isn't fair.  I know it.  Not envy.  If it turns out there are more than dribs and drabs off house prices in time to come, (eg HPC), that's the market. :)  :) :)   If it's HPI stability, or more HPI++ for years to come, that's the market too, and renter-savers continue to bear the brunt of it.  No one comes to bail them out.

On 5/2/2015 at 0:37 AM, Mrs Bear said:

I am well aware that BOMAD is very unfair on those who can't expect any help, but sadly life never was fair, and most parents like to help if they can. Of course I wish prices had come down to realistic levels - I would not give a toss if the value of our own house halved tomorrow. But at best all I can see now is dribs and drabs, and maybe not even much of that, at least not in expensive areas.

 

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On 5/2/2015 at 0:37 AM, Mrs Bear said:

I am well aware that BOMAD is very unfair on those who can't expect any help, but sadly life never was fair, and most parents like to help if they can. Of course I wish prices had come down to realistic levels - I would not give a toss if the value of our own house halved tomorrow. But at best all I can see now is dribs and drabs, and maybe not even much of that, at least not in expensive areas.

The point about this statement is that is strongly proves that both BOMAD and the buying children, as market participants, don't see house prices falling.

It's very unlikely BOMAD would offer, and adult would-be buyers accept the money (to buy in the market), if they feared big falls ahead.

That makes both BOMAD and the buyers active market participants, in outbidding someone else for that house.

Freewill market choices.   If market were to dip, that's something for those who bought to deal with (as you agree with).

It's all well and good stating that you would like to see prices come down, but at same time as those helping provide the funds (BOMAD), and the kids buying, they have a position.  You say yourself they would be gutted if values fall.  Market.

They got what they wanted. :)

And with their own savings + your assistance, it sounds like any HPC would just be a hit to EGO (what it is worth / what it is no longer worth).  Market.  As another market participants I choose to rent and wait in hope of better value.   And some reasons for excitement, with S24 announced a few days after your dribs and drabs position for expensive areas.   That's not having a go at you.  Just my market perspective.   I want better value housing.  For some who've chosen to buy, values falling will leave them 'gutted' (yet they wanted to buy, had the money, got cushion, and didn't want to put up with LLs as many of us do).  

So it's simply a conflict of market positions.  Not envy nor abuse.   Just an explanation of different market perspectives and positions.

 

1 hour ago, Mrs Bear said:

Our kids both had sizeable deposits of their own, which we added to, to increase their choice slightly in what is a relatively expensive area.  If their own deposits melt away - unlikely unless there's a huge crash - they will no doubt be gutted, but they knew it was a risk they had to take if they didn't want to be at the mercy of landlords who might decide to kick them out with a couple of months' notice.  Particularly applicable to our elder and son in law, who have  two very little ones.  

 

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A couple of quotes from a close friend of mine, which have all been heard before on this site.

"Houses only ever go up.... / You can't lose on houses....."

"You must get on with your life and buy a house...." (I don't know why he thinks I'm not getting on with my life, but I think I'm getting by quite nicely)

"With the amount of money you have (which he has no idea, but it is close to a healthy 6 figure sum anyway) I would have bought several houses and rented them out...." (yeah, right)

"Everyone starts from with a basic flat, or house in a crappy area, and then moves up the ladder....." (I wander why he hasn't done so then since buying his first house 10 years ago).

When comparing our lives, this friend of mine is laden with debt (mortgage, CC, loans, etc), works two jobs (around 12 hours a day), and frequently switches for better deals on his outstanding loans and credit cards. God knows how he manages, the thought of the hours he is putting in day in day out and the amount of debt he has is horrifying! I have noticed changes in him over the years (for the worse) and can physically see the stress on his face. Compare it with my current lifestyle, I have contracted and saved very hard over the years. I can outright buy a flat or a cheap house (in a cheap area of the country) without any mortgage debt if I wanted to, but I chose not to. I can now work when and where I like, which I haven't done so for a year through my own choice. Last time I saw my friend he commented on how I don't seem to age very much, and asked what my secret was.....

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On 27/02/2017 at 9:01 AM, Jozers said:

My father claimed I have been 'dicking around' and needed to buy a flat. In his defence, he did think flats in Ealing still went for £70k. :blink:

Did you show him some rightmove prices?

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On 22/02/2017 at 3:09 PM, Venger said:

 

And with their own savings + your assistance, it sounds like any HPC would just be a hit to EGO (what it is worth / what it is no longer worth).

 

 

 

 

I dare say that's what you like to think, but if you knew my family you would understand that we are not, and never will be, the types to brag about how much our houses are worth, or to obsess about it, or to think that such and such a paper value makes us better than anyone else.  Our egos, such as they are, are not dependent on such things.  

Not sure why I'm bothering to reply, really, since I'm sure you'll go through this post with a nit-comb and a microscope, too, and find something else to pick at.  

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51 minutes ago, Mrs Bear said:

I dare say that's what you like to think, but if you knew my family you would understand that we are not, and never will be, the types to brag about how much our houses are worth, or to obsess about it, or to think that such and such a paper value makes us better than anyone else.  Our egos, such as they are, are not dependent on such things.  

Not sure why I'm bothering to reply, really, since I'm sure you'll go through this post with a nit-comb and a microscope, too, and find something else to pick at.  

 

If there is a weakness in your position, why would I not look for it? :)

On 10/13/2016 at 5:47 PM, Neverwhere said:

I also absolutely agree that posters shouldn't be banned from here because they hold different views, but this is already the case on HPC, not least because there is no one central HPC view on anything.

Given that posters do hold differing views this naturally results in disagreement, which is - for me at least - one of the aspects of the forum that I most appreciate.

What better way to test an idea or opinion than to subject it to the rigours of debate and see if it survives the discussion?

 

Your offspring made their own adult choices in buying houses, with BOMAD assistance.

They are market participants.

If the market turns down, they have their own responsibility to whatever is the associated debt, and if values slide down, that's their own position.   If they feel bad it is worth less, or 'gutted', that's their own position.

Just as it is for my family on the renter-saver side, as a market participant with no access to bomad and who refuses to pay these prices (even though I could buy).  I'm not doing any dance of joy, at these prices, against my position either, but I refuse to buy, and have expectation for lower prices.  Some buy some rent.  Market.

I am responsible for paying the rent, and if HPI continues to go against my position toward buying, then that's my own positioned worsened, in a market.

Some choose to buy, some choose to rent.  Market.  No specialness.

No one is claiming you look at your own home value with any ego, or on the brag about what your home is worth.  

I am not here on HPC thinking that Mrs.Bear own a home worth loadsamoney (and that she doesn't have any ego about how much it's worth).   Although from you posting about it... I guess your home is worth a lot (in this current market).

My position is same as BuyToLeech, who I see responds to you directly in this post below.

If it is worth so much money (in this housing market), then for some owners (not necessarily you), it should motivate selling (and less by way of BOMADing and helping offspring into buying at these prices which in turn supports prices - for the moment).    Yet for many owners these values are not motivating them to look to sell.  (low inventory on market).   And that is their own sovereign market choice.

You have claimed you don't see market crashing... just dribs and drabs at best, and maybe not even that in expensive areas.  You're a market participant (as am I), but you an owner and an BOMAD, and me a renter waiting/hoping for better value, against others who have had noHPC market view, including yourself !!   ('dribs and drabs at best' and 'maybe not even that in expensive areas').

Don't get annoyed by it!   It's just the facts.   You can't buy a house, take BOMAD, and then have any 'specialness' if it does fall in value, against individual buyers and bomad views that no HPC ahead.   We're all in the market.

Quote

Very few people can afford to ignore the value of their home, whatever their age, it's a key factor in everyone's decisions about housing.

I'll repeat my earlier point, in the hope that reading comprehension wasn't just a passing fad from my youth.

We live in a market economy, of sorts. The selling point of a market economy is that selfish decisions should lead to an optimal allocation of resources.

The distribution of housing is not optimal. Why?

The elderly ought to downsize. Not that they should be forced to, like in a command economy, but that it ought to be the outcome of their selfish decisions, and it isn't. That is a fact that needs explaining.

I claim that this can be explained by looking at the lack of incentives to move. Retired people don't downsize because:

1. They don't pay the costs of their decision, other people do.

2. Homes are investments, and the financial incentives beat the real economic incentives.

 

Edited by Venger
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On 06/03/2017 at 10:18 AM, Mrs Bear said:

I dare say that's what you like to think, but if you knew my family you would understand that we are not, and never will be, the types to brag about how much our houses are worth, or to obsess about it, or to think that such and such a paper value makes us better than anyone else.  Our egos, such as they are, are not dependent on such things.  

Not sure why I'm bothering to reply, really, since I'm sure you'll go through this post with a nit-comb and a microscope, too, and find something else to pick at.  

From your previous posts that's untrue.

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