dgul Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 56 minutes ago, SarahBell said: Do parents take no responsibility these days? Kids all need to be able to use the washing machine, iron, cook, load the dishwasher / do dishes, clean the floor, shop, buy their own clothes, sew a button on, polish their shoes, open a bank account, save money, manage their finances, etc. One of the people on my FB said she thought there should be a handbook for young adults (teens) as none of them seem to know anything. Well it's the parents who need to teach them, not school! When I went to college there was Clarke's 'Grub on a Grant' and that was about it (not that so many people actually had a grant by the time I went, but at least I didn't pay much in fees). I'd have thought it would be republished as 'grub on a loan', but apparently 'Essential student cookbook' is a better title -- Bet it doesn't sell as well as it used to... These days there are a myriad of books available to instruct on how to cope, let alone vast amounts of information on the internet. Not that it's that difficult. I guess it's not that the individuals are lazy, but that they've never been instructed in 'just getting on with it'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyme2 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Suspect this has more to "re-education" than education and yes, another junket for the tertiary education sector. The only thing it will do is dissuade some that would make very effective policemen on the beat and not office based open pushers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 9 minutes ago, brit1234 said: Their reason ( "Cyber-enabled crime has increased," he said, "So has the need for officers and staff to investigate and gather intelligence online and via information technology." ) So, in that case, they need to specify that recruits needs a good Maths, Computer Science or Software degree. No other Degree, esp. the Arts + Humanities ones that seem prevalent in the police force/public sector middle management, are going to help meet that requirement. Ive had my name passed onto to an org with a regards an informal chat about cyber security. Ive tried my normal line about not letting Cybermen into the building. Does not seen to work. I asked if they had computers? Yes, they replied. Ok, dont turn them on and youll be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 9 minutes ago, brit1234 said: What rubbish, if they want us to get better at cyber crime they should actually offer existing officers training but instead they have reduced all training with cut backs. Our new officers are the least trained in basic policing we have ever had. As for our IT systems they are broken and historic. Then there are access restrictions for information which you have to get the right authorisation. Its not about brain power and degrees to do it but funding the infrastructure, setting up information sharing agreements and changing laws. Every younger generation is more technically ahead when it comes to IT or social media even without degrees. Top post. Looks like a simple cost cutting exercise, take the cost of training out of the police budget and force it onto new recruits. As you say, it sounds as though the training will be a very pale imitation of anything you'd learn on the job while alienating many promising candidates who would no longer qualify for the role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDavola Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 25 minutes ago, mikthe20 said: you'd get coppers from the rough areas themselves who understood those types of communities and could be seen as being part of them, and could probably also take care of themselves. Yep I can think of one example of a guy who was from one of the 'chav' families, never did well enough to do a degree, took loads of drugs ect... but is now in the police. And fair play to him; as you say he can actually relate more to those at the bottom of society, and will probably help steer a few kids away from bad paths in life over the course of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 19 minutes ago, brit1234 said: . Every younger generation is more technically ahead when it comes to IT or social media even without degrees. No. Using the whatever crap is popular at the mo - yes. Actually developing and deploying software (or hardware, remember that?, before the Chinese took it). At the moment, if you want to recruit a good system software person - OS, network stacks -the sort of close to the metal skills that you need for cyber security then you have an age range of about 35-55. Outside of that range then youll struggle to find someone who has a good grasp of systems. Java really fcked over the important skills base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Steps. i) Do not read original article. ii) Read the word "degree". iii) Commence foaming at the mouth immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 1 minute ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said: Steps. i) Do not read original article. ii) Read the word "degree". iii) Commence foaming at the mouth immediately. There's an element of this - if you join then you are expected to progress with some for of education/training for a few years. Its a shame that night schools are non exitent. Oh the joy of doing a useful A level or HND after work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brit1234 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 That popular crap happens to be what the criminals use. Very few officers are taught the dark web, even less are taught to go in and send their avatar into a virtual cafe where drugs and guns are being sold. Social media is a huge wealth of intel for tacking terrorists and gangs however with every new fad it is the young and the criminal networks who are on it well before the police. The police have only got to grips with twitter that is how far we are behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workingpoor Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Not sure i'd want a Copper who's spent 3yrs using "safe spaces" turning up to save me from a knife weilding burglar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewingGrass Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 I think it also entails 3 years worth of unpaid work as a 'Special' as well. So would be coppers end up paying for their own training plus working part time for something like 2 shifts a week for 3 years without any pay before they can even apply for the job! They are effectively subsidisng the cost of policing especially where forces have to use accompanied officers when dealing with children and other 'vulnerable' people to avoid false molestation accusations etc. Getting the job is then almost a formality for the force as they are virtually fully trained from day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossybabe Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 4 hours ago, The Masked Tulip said: They will be like nurses - too posh to wipe, too posh to stop a fight. Degrees are about making money for unis, keeping people in education for an extra 3 years, driving the UK up the rankings for numbers of people with degrees. That is all. Edit: A friend of mine in a local uni told me last week that they have had to make up lists telling students how to plan ahead for food, which shops to go to buy food, what kind of food to buy and then how to plan time ahead to cook. This is because they were having students breaking down because there was no one preparing food for them each evening like their parents did at home. They even have had to take some students to a supermarket and walk them around buying food. I kid you not. FFS!!! I could understand if it was foreign students from some off-world planet but not the usual students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 3 minutes ago, Bossybabe said: FFS!!! I could understand if it was foreign students from some off-world planet but not the usual students. Perhaps they left home too young? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Marching in groups and bull. Police training for the 21st century. It's all my Grandad ever needed. Etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 2 hours ago, brit1234 said: The police have only got to grips with twitter that is how far we are behind. And what a boon for the stats that was, someone posts something 'problematic' and bosh, instant conviction without even getting up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 2 hours ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said: Steps. i) Do not read original article. ii) Read the word "degree". iii) Commence foaming at the mouth immediately. I read the article.. I still arrived at the same conclusion as everyone else. Are we missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 If I was a copper on a dark night in a rough area, the sort of copper I would want alongside me would not be a clever clogs academic but someone built like a brick shit house, even if he was only semi articulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 22 minutes ago, Byron said: If I was a copper on a dark night in a rough area, the sort of copper I would want alongside me would not be a clever clogs academic but someone built like a brick shit house, even if he was only semi articulate. Ah, but if you were a copper in a university library? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpewLabour Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 6 hours ago, Errol said: Yes, this is because getting a degree has almost nothing to do with intelligence, education or wisdom. Mostly it is just about learning what is in a book and then sitting an exam. You don't even need the lectures. Yup sounds like me. I only ever attended 25% of lectures and did very little work. Spent most of the time in a pub but still scraped a Desmond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 3 minutes ago, SpewLabour said: Yup sounds like me. I only ever attended 25% of lectures and did very little work. Spent most of the time in a pub but still scraped a Desmond. The "pub" is the university I attended. Unfortunately, even that is getting too expensive. That piece of paper will be worth nothing, if all it takes is money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 3 hours ago, brit1234 said: As a serving officer with a degree I can say this plan is utter tosh, non of the officers including us with degree think it is a good idea. The college of policing is far removed from reality. Their reason ( "Cyber-enabled crime has increased," he said, "So has the need for officers and staff to investigate and gather intelligence online and via information technology." ) What rubbish, if they want us to get better at cyber crime they should actually offer existing officers training but instead they have reduced all training with cut backs. Our new officers are the least trained in basic policing we have ever had. As for our IT systems they are broken and historic. Then there are access restrictions for information which you have to get the right authorisation. Its not about brain power and degrees to do it but funding the infrastructure, setting up information sharing agreements and changing laws. Every younger generation is more technically ahead when it comes to IT or social media even without degrees. These degree changes would stop a lot of the best officers in my force joining, the ones who you can rely to be standing next to you when all hell erupts. Police officers who have come from the military who make many of the best officers would be excluded too. All we would have is a load of police with no life experience telling all others what to do, it is wrong. Straight from the horse's mouth, being a policeman who has a degree. You really cannot, and would not wish to, argue with any of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battenberg Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 6 hours ago, The Masked Tulip said: They will be like nurses - too posh to wipe, too posh to stop a fight. Degrees are about making money for unis, keeping people in education for an extra 3 years, driving the UK up the rankings for numbers of people with degrees. That is all. Edit: A friend of mine in a local uni told me last week that they have had to make up lists telling students how to plan ahead for food, which shops to go to buy food, what kind of food to buy and then how to plan time ahead to cook. This is because they were having students breaking down because there was no one preparing food for them each evening like their parents did at home. They even have had to take some students to a supermarket and walk them around buying food. I kid you not. The whole nursing degree thing boils my pi$$. Back in the day you needed a handful of gce's or cse's, depending on what level you were going in at, common sense, and a desire to do the job. Now it's all about degrees. Instead of getting people training on the job they'd rather employ them from overseas. It's a disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 7 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said: Straight from the horse's mouth, being a policeman who has a degree. You really cannot, and would not wish to, argue with any of that. Well I'd take issue with it, lots of it. Why would degree requirements prevent ex-military serving ? I was of the understanding that the military spends a lot of time training soldiers for when they eventually leave, and there are all kinds of apprenticeships and other training courses available. A soldier could study during military service and leave qualified ready to join the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battenberg Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 3 hours ago, spyguy said: There's an element of this - if you join then you are expected to progress with some for of education/training for a few years. Its a shame that night schools are non exitent. Oh the joy of doing a useful A level or HND after work! Every August, when I think about doing night school, I wonder if that time really did exist or if I made it up in my head. Wasn't it great? I did a number of useful courses once I'd left school. Now there is very little available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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