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SarahBell

Cops need a degree

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38319283

 

All new police officers in England and Wales will have to be educated to degree level from 2020, the College of Policing has announced.

It said the training would help address changes in crime-fighting.

Prospective officers can either complete a three-year "degree apprenticeship", a postgraduate conversion course or a degree.

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Sounds like a nice kickback to the universities/education industry, since the police is one of the few well paying jobs with good pensions available to the average pleb.

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It is an absolute disgrace.  Essentially demanding that to join the police force you have to first get £30k into debt, where there no necessity for the degree.

We've got a fundamental problem with higher education in the UK.  As an employer my demands are that

1. employees turn up and

2. that they are capable of doing some work.  

Okay, mine is a technical field so I've also got a technical requirement, but for the majority of jobs in the country those are the two requirements.  The problem is that we've started using 'having a degree' as a proxy of passing those two requirements.  And, what is so awful about it, it is quite a reasonable assumption.  These days, by demanding your employees have a degree you are probably weeding out the majority of applicants who won't turn up and who won't be capable of doing some work.

Oh, you'll also miss a load of good candidates, and you might still well get a duffer -- but at least you won't get fired because 'these things happen'.  Employ a non-graduate and you'll be pulled over the coals if they're a duffer.

So, we all have to have a degree, no because it marks us out as being good, but because it differentiates us from the 'not good'.  Which would all be fine if it wasn't for the immense waste of time and money that goes on.

Funnily enough, though, I was at school the other day overhearing teenagers talking (well, you can't do this sort of thing as a DJ, vicar or football coach anymore) and there was a broad consensus that there wasn't any point in doing a degree any more as 'you don't earn more money and your mum has massive debts from her degree in geography and she's a cleaner'.  And, given the experiences of my nephew who earns more than me without a degree, they might well be right.

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It would only be a good thing if some intelligence were required for university entrance. Alas, this is no longer the case in the majority of degree courses. ?  

 

As a non degree holder, with intelligence, I'm proud to say I consistently earned more than my school contemporaries who got degrees. And I earned it for three or four more years.  (I'm studying for the degree now in retirement). 

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13 minutes ago, Bossybabe said:

As a non degree holder, with intelligence, I'm proud to say I consistently earned more than my school contemporaries who got degrees. And I earned it for three or four more years.  (I'm studying for the degree now in retirement). 

Yes, this is because getting a degree has almost nothing to do with intelligence, education or wisdom. Mostly it is just about learning what is in a book and then sitting an exam. You don't even need the lectures.

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5 minutes ago, Errol said:

Yes, this is because getting a degree has almost nothing to do with intelligence, education or wisdom. Mostly it is just about learning what is in a book and then sitting an exam. You don't even need the lectures.

Agree.....lots of excellent lectures on tinternet, lots of evening courses to go to, lots of ordinary people to learn from, many from the work place......no certificates required nor wanted....you cant judge someone from a certificate they hold imo.;)

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They will be like nurses - too posh to wipe, too posh to stop a fight.

Degrees are about making money for unis, keeping people in education for an extra 3 years, driving the UK up the rankings for numbers of people with degrees. That is all.

Edit:

A friend of mine in a local uni told me last week that they have had to make up lists telling students how to plan ahead for food, which shops to go to buy food, what kind of food to buy and then how to plan time ahead to cook. This is because they were having students breaking down because there was no one preparing food for them each evening like their parents did at home.

They even have had to take some students to a supermarket and walk them around buying food. I kid you not.

 

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26 minutes ago, dgul said:

It is an absolute disgrace.  Essentially demanding that to join the police force you have to first get £30k into debt, where there no necessity for the degree.

 

This is what happened to nursing. New recruits are seriously deterred by the prospect of tens of thousands of £ of debt getting trained for the job. You used to go into nursing and get trained as you progressed. A nursing degree was optional, and was usually only done by senior nurses.

The net result is that there are serious recruitment problems for lower and middle tier nurses, and hospitals are having to pay double the salary for agency nurses. As stupid an idea in nursing as it is in policing. 

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Why does the NHS no longer want to invest like they used to in quality training?.....when they say there is a shortage of beds don't they mean there is a shortage of nurses to cover the beds?;)

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Just why?

The job does not require academics; it requires people who are physically fit and good at dealing with other people.

The ideal candidate is somebody who has had significant experience of dealing with difficult people prior to joining; something like a baliff, doorman etc.

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21 minutes ago, newbonic said:

This is what happened to nursing. New recruits are seriously deterred by the prospect of tens of thousands of £ of debt getting trained for the job. You used to go into nursing and get trained as you progressed. A nursing degree was optional, and was usually only done by senior nurses.

The net result is that there are serious recruitment problems for lower and middle tier nurses, and hospitals are having to pay double the salary for agency nurses. As stupid an idea in nursing as it is in policing. 

This..   utter lunacy.

Police need training in being policemen.   Doing it through a degree rather than on the job is just a sub-optimal way of shifting the cost of training onto the individual so that the police force no longer has to pay to train its own staff.

The line that a degree is necessary because now police have to check facebook accounts..   please..   give me a break.

This guy quoted in the article is spot on:

 

Quote

 

But retired police officer Norman Brennan, who served 31 years in London and now campaigns for police protection, said degrees came "at the bottom of the priority list" for police.

He said: "The only degree a police officer needs is a degree of common sense - they'll learn on the job.

"The public don't care about police having degrees. They want someone competent, caring and capable."

 

 

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1 hour ago, The Masked Tulip said:

A friend of mine in a local uni told me last week that they have had to make up lists telling students how to plan ahead for food, which shops to go to buy food, what kind of food to buy and then how to plan time ahead to cook. This is because they were having students breaking down because there was no one preparing food for them each evening like their parents did at home.

They even have had to take some students to a supermarket and walk them around buying food. I kid you not.

 


Do parents take no responsibility these days?

Kids all need to be able to use the washing machine, iron, cook, load the dishwasher / do dishes, clean the floor, shop, buy their own clothes, sew a button on, polish their shoes, open a bank account, save money, manage their finances, etc.

One of the people on my FB said she thought there should be a handbook for young adults (teens) as none of them seem to know anything. 
Well it's the parents who need to teach them, not school!


 

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11 minutes ago, mikthe20 said:

Another career path removed from non-academic working class male kids.

This is really key; it's one of the non-uni options where a bloke could have had a reasonably paid secure job, the sort that one could conceivably raise a family on.

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1 hour ago, The Masked Tulip said:

It is also about politicising the Police as the boy or girl with a recent degree will probably be a very different beast to the ones without.

I'm surprised nobody else here is concerned about this; it was my immediate thought. Universities nowadays seem to be about indoctrination rather than education.

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2 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

This is really key; it's one of the non-uni options where a bloke could have had a reasonably paid secure job, the sort that one could conceivably raise a family on.

Exactly. Used to be an old cliche that white working class kids from rough areas either joined the police or became criminals. One of those options has been removed. Hyperbole, I know, but not completely. Although it did mean you'd get dodgy coppers, it also meant you'd get coppers from the rough areas themselves who understood those types of communities and could be seen as being part of them, and could probably also take care of themselves.

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I object to this sort of crp. A degree?


Ok, a Degree in what?

If the type of degree does not matter than the job doesn't need a Degree.
Coppers would be best just doing A levels - a kid with 3 A levels, including Maths and English - maybe Law for a copper - is a better bet than a Grad with a non-vocational degree. FFS, the entry requirement for some Degrees are so low than they are not worth having.

All the jobs Ive worked in specidy 3 or 4 STEM degrees subjects - Maths/CompSCi/Electronics.

We'd just not consider someone with a English Lit degree. Pointless.

 

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As a serving officer with a degree I can say this plan is utter tosh, non of the officers including us with degree think it is a good idea.  The college of policing is far removed from reality.

Their reason ( "Cyber-enabled crime has increased," he said, "So has the need for officers and staff to investigate and gather intelligence online and via information technology." )

 

What rubbish, if they want us to get better at cyber crime they should actually offer existing officers training but instead they have reduced all training with cut backs.  Our new officers are the least trained in basic policing we have ever had.  As for our IT systems they are broken and historic.  Then there are access restrictions for information which you have to get the right authorisation.  Its not about brain power and degrees to do it but funding the infrastructure, setting up information sharing agreements and changing laws. Every younger generation is more technically ahead when it comes to IT or social media even without degrees.

 

These degree changes would stop a lot of the best officers in my force joining, the ones who you can rely to be standing next to you when all hell erupts. Police officers who have come from the military who make many of the best officers would be excluded too.  All we would have is a load of police with no life experience telling all others what to do, it is wrong.

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A lot of jobs that "need degrees" don't need degrees at all.

This benefits only the education carousel, and the debt markets.

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