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2 Bed Prefabs for Homeless South londoners cost £156k - No Land

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Prefabs for Homeless South londoners cost £156k, presumably without land. 

They can be relocated 5 times

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/dec/14/london-uk-housing-crisis-lewisham-pop-up-homes-ladywell-development?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship

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20 minutes ago, dgul said:

I can't understand how they cost so much to build. 

If they involve the awarding of a contract to a private business through politicians and bureaucrats, it's extremely easy to imagine how the taxpayer can be presented with huge bills.

 

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Watched a you tube video a while back  about building straw-bale houses (serious); very popular in Germany apparently. There was a family in Ireland who had one as well, built for only around £10,000. Apparently they are very comfortable to live in because straw is so insulating. Surely this the way to go.

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Ceyda Eray previously lived in a damp house in Brockley with her two daughters, then aged nine and 14. “I went to the doctor and he gave them asthma pumps because my oldest one, when she was doing PE, after five to 10 minutes she was breathless, and my youngest one had eczema,” she said.

So moving into a prefab right next to a busy main road is going to help with the asthma?

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I feel this prefab rush is going to be a big scandal where big mnftrs rip off the tax  payer / ftb big time.

 

Remember Brighton 'Shipping Containers For The Homeless ' ?

http:// www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/194198-shipping-containers-for-the-homeless/

  

Architects claim Lewisham  flats will last for 60 years for £156K each. They have to be moved up to 5 times , have planning for 5 years.

If they cannot stay after last move , they should only have been designed to last 25 yrs, so could have been cheaper.

 

A shipping container can be moved 100's of times, so long as you strengthen the 10-12 ft long side cut outs for windows doors etc  The brighton ones are 6 high Lewsihan are only 5 high

 

They appear to be made of 2 or 3  modules, poss. a bit wider than a 40 ft container (trucking limitations) " 829 sq ft "

For comparison, A 40 ft high cube is 305, so 3 x 40 ft = 915 sq ft 

£9000 buys 3 containers (3 x £3,000 inc vat)  a A 40ft High Cube Container ( HCC) (like new) - One Trip (9ft 6' high)  

http://www.portablespace.co.uk/product/40ft-x-8ft-9ft-6in-high-one-trip-container-high-cube-blue 

 

There are other container building for homeless & flats going up 

Containers for homeless - Caversham Reading 

“Stacked shipping container” homes for the homeless were given the go-ahead in Caversham despite 42 objections.

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/stacked-shipping-container-homes-caversham-11645814

 

One bedroom house in town centre for £35k – but you might want to look at the outside first

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/one-bedroom-house-town-centre-9033449

 

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship

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18 minutes ago, EnglishinWales said:

Watched a you tube video a while back  about building straw-bale houses (serious); very popular in Germany apparently. There was a family in Ireland who had one as well, built for only around £10,000. Apparently they are very comfortable to live in because straw is so insulating. Surely this the way to go.

Remember they are in London, scarce land , so dont make the walls thick like straw bale. Instead use  100 /150mm of PIR rigid foam insulation for same insulation , but fraction of width.

sips panels of PIR foam & mgo fire board are excellent now

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_oxide_wallboard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1FEyUruFsI

 

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On 14/12/2016 at 10:52 PM, Saving For a Space Ship said:

I feel this prefab rush is going to be a big scandal where big mnftrs rip off the tax  payer / ftb big time.

 

Remember Brighton 'Shipping Containers For The Homeless ' ?

http:// www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/194198-shipping-containers-for-the-homeless/

  

Architects claim Lewisham  flats will last for 60 years for £156K each. They have to be moved up to 5 times , have planning for 5 years.

If they cannot stay after last move , they should only have been designed to last 25 yrs, so could have been cheaper.

 

A shipping container can be moved 100's of times, so long as you strengthen the 10-12 ft long side cut outs for windows doors etc  The brighton ones are 6 high Lewsihan are only 5 high

 

They appear to be made of 2 or 3  modules, poss. a bit wider than a 40 ft container (trucking limitations) " 829 sq ft "

For comparison, A 40 ft high cube is 305, so 3 x 40 ft = 915 sq ft 

£9000 buys 3 containers (3 x £3,000 inc vat)  a A 40ft High Cube Container ( HCC) (like new) - One Trip (9ft 6' high)  

http://www.portablespace.co.uk/product/40ft-x-8ft-9ft-6in-high-one-trip-container-high-cube-blue 

 

There are other container building for homeless & flats going up 

Containers for homeless - Caversham Reading 

“Stacked shipping container” homes for the homeless were given the go-ahead in Caversham despite 42 objections.

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/stacked-shipping-container-homes-caversham-11645814

 

One bedroom house in town centre for £35k – but you might want to look at the outside first

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/one-bedroom-house-town-centre-9033449

 

 

It's already been a scandal. It's time for my now quarterly post about Adam Curtis' documentary Inquiry: The Great British Housing Disaster.

I watched this about a year ago although the documentary is 32 years old. It always amazes me that people think prefab housing is some sort of panacea. In theory it should be better than traditional brick building but in the UK it has just sucked. I think in part the British Governments of the 50s and 60s rushed into prefab building to ease the post war housing crisis without going through a full research and development programme, particularly elevated age testing which is difficult to do at the best of times. By the 70s concrete prefabs and the sink estates constructed from them were thought to be a total disaster so all work stopped. Now people are beginning to look into them again but I really need to question why. There hasn't been much if any UK R&D into them and the British people seem to be averse even if the were properly developed. The biggest issue with housing provision is the availability of land with planning permission not the actual building process slowing things down. People often blame big builders for land banking and rationing supply but in my opinion that is a reaction to the broken planning system. If the planning system worked then a builder wouldn't want to tie up lots of money in X decades worth of land they'd have no need and would be uncompetitive.

 

Edited to add: You often see things that the designer claims were designed to last 40-60 years. From my experience this is little more than guesswork. You design for a series of load cases and add a margin, but you can't guarantee if things will be used as you've stipulated or if the load cases were correct in the first place or will be the same in 40 years time. I think the 40-60 year figures comes about to appease people signing off your work into use. Basically they'll be long retired or dead by the time any of the faults are found and it'll be someone else's problem and they won't be accountable.

 

 

Edited by assetrichcashpoor

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"Lewisham council said each home cost £156,000 to build, about 20% cheaper than a typical council home. "

If they have to be moved in 5 years thus incurring new site costs:

Access

Sewer

Electricity Supply

Foundation

Fencing Outside Lighting

Planning

Legal fees 

to name but a few of the costs I can quickly think of.

Does this not make it an extremely expensive form of housing. Just spend the extra 20% and have a house for 100+ years.

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15 hours ago, assetrichcashpoor said:

 

It's already been a scandal. It's time for my now quarterly post about Adam Curtis' documentary Inquiry: The Great British Housing Disaster.

I watched this about a year ago although the documentary is 32 years old. It always amazes me that people think prefab housing is some sort of panacea. In theory it should be better than traditional brick building but in the UK it has just sucked. I think in part the British Governments of the 50s and 60s rushed into prefab building to ease the post war housing crisis without going through a full research and development programme, particularly elevated age testing which is difficult to do at the best of times. By the 70s concrete prefabs and the sink estates constructed from them were thought to be a total disaster so all work stopped. Now people are beginning to look into them again but I really need to question why. There hasn't been much if any UK R&D into them and the British people seem to be averse even if the were properly developed. The biggest issue with housing provision is the availability of land with planning permission not the actual building process slowing things down. People often blame big builders for land banking and rationing supply but in my opinion that is a reaction to the broken planning system. If the planning system worked then a builder wouldn't want to tie up lots of money in X decades worth of land they'd have no need and would be uncompetitive.

 

Edited to add: You often see things that the designer claims were designed to last 40-60 years. From my experience this is little more than guesswork. You design for a series of load cases and add a margin, but you can't guarantee if things will be used as you've stipulated or if the load cases were correct in the first place or will be the same in 40 years time. I think the 40-60 year figures comes about to appease people signing off your work into use. Basically they'll be long retired or dead by the time any of the faults are found and it'll be someone else's problem and they won't be accountable.

 

 

 

14 hours ago, lie to bet said:

"Lewisham council said each home cost £156,000 to build, about 20% cheaper than a typical council home. "

If they have to be moved in 5 years thus incurring new site costs:

Access

Sewer

Electricity Supply

Foundation

Fencing Outside Lighting

Planning

Legal fees 

to name but a few of the costs I can quickly think of.

Does this not make it an extremely expensive form of housing. Just spend the extra 20% and have a house for 100+ years.

Thankyou both for that.

I am very concerned about allegations  / suspicions that there is potential for the uk tax payer (Gov / housing associations etc),  Ftb's & Financiers to be defrauded or misled with sub standard or over priced prefab housing.

I will be drafting a complaint to the SFO & CMA in this regard to follow market developments closely. I'd be grateful for advice on specific areas to mention

I urge others to do the same .

Contacts for the Serious Fraud office as well as the competition and markets authority

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/competition-and-markets-authority/about#notify-us-of-issues

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/competition-and-markets-authority

https://www.sfo.gov.uk/contact-us/

Serious FradEmail: public.enquiries@sfo.gsi.gov.uk

Phone: +44 (0)20 7239 7272/7152 (switchboard)

Fax: +44 (0)20 7084 4700

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/business/development/land-and-construction/chinese-firm-and-association-strike-275bn-factory-deal/7018113.article

More News...

Quote

A giant Chinese construction firm has struck an historic £2.75bn joint venture with a social landlord to open six house building factories in the UK, capable of producing 25,000 homes a year.

 

China National Building Material Company (CNBM), a government-linked private firm which claims to be the world’s leading construction materials company, has agreed the joint venture with housing association Your Housing Group (YHG) and renewable energy specialist Welink.

The consortium is currently seeking sites for six UK-based factories, and is viewing sites in Scotland, South Wales, North East, North West, Yorkshire and in the South and South West.

IN NUMBERS

Six house building factories set to be built in the UK by the new consortium

£400 per square foot, the target construction cost once it is fully operational. The current average in the UK is £1,000

25,000 homes per year built by the consortium by 2022

£2.75bn investment with £2.5bn coming from CNBM and £250m from YHG

CNBM has a mandate from the Chinese government to build between a 1m and 1.5m homes per year in China, and it is keen to test new technologies and methods of construction it can bring back to China.

It hopes to be building 25,000 homes per year by 2022 through this joint venture, with five pilot schemes set to deliver a total of 2,000 homes next year.

The panels for these homes will be built at a factory in Barcelona, before being shipped over to the UK and assembled. The first scheme, in Liverpool, is exepcted to receive planning permission in January.

Once these schemes are built, the consortium hopes the factories will be operational.

It hopes that when the factory is at full capacity it will bring the cost down from £1,000 per square foot to around £400 per square foot. This will allow it to build homes at social rent levels without grant, according to YHG chief executive Brian Cronin.

Mr Cronin told Inside Housing: “CNBM isn’t an investor – it’s not looking for a return. They want to look around the world for the best technology to take it back to China.

“We’re trying to create an offer for the majority of people, those at the low and bottom end of the market who really struggle to get a good home they can afford.”

The consortium plans to primarily build rental properties, with some produced for low cost home ownership and outright sale. YHG will provide maintenance services to the homes, while the consortium will own them.

The homes will be equipped with solar panels and other renewable technology from WeLink and are expected to be 75% more energy efficient than a traditionally built home.

It will focus on areas of the country outside London and the South East where high land costs make the development plans less financially attractive. It will seek to locate the factories strategically, within a 50 to 70 mile radius of the factory.

YHG, which owns 33,000 social homes across the north of England, has invested £250m of cash into the joint venture, with £2.5bn coming from CNBM.

This funding will be enough to get the factories built and fund the first 25,000 homes. A research and technology centre is currently being built in Gloucester by YHG to pioneer new development.  

It has been in negotiations over the deal for several months, supported by Department for International Trade.

Greg Hands, international trade minister, said his department had played a “fundamental role” in making the deal happen.

Peng Shou, chair of CNBM, said:  “The key to unlocking the opportunities to address the housing needs of the UK is through the development and delivery of an industrialisation strategy at significant scale.”

Stephen Haigh, currently executive director of specialist housing at YHG, will take over as UK chief executive of the joint venture.

The parent company of CNBM is China National Building Material Group, a state-owned company in China.  

Quote

C0BuH5nXgAA5CnF.jpg

Chinese giant to build six UK pre-fab housing factories

http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2016/12/19/chinese-giant-to-build-six-uk-pre-fab-homes-factories/

Just found this,  but started a new thread on it 

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship

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 Can prefab homes solve UK's housing crisis?

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jan/26/prefab-homes-uk-housing-crisis-modular-offsite-construction-manchester-liverpool-energy-efficiency?CMP=share_btn_tw

Bit of a puff piece for  Tom Bloxham, chief executive of Urban Splash, the inner city flat developer.

Interesting to see the Traditional House builders defence ..

Quote

Prefab’s bad image

But the off-site manufacture of homes and buildings has been the future of construction before – most notoriously in the 1950s and ‘60s.

New Labour’s John Prescott attempted to revive the idea following a review of the construction industry in the late 1990s but it was killed off in the recession, due largely to its comparatively high cost at the time. Its biggest advantage – speed of construction – wasn’t valued by housebuilders who had no interest in building houses any faster than they could sell them.

 

“For traditional housebuilders that sell homes on the open market, the one thing they don’t need is speed,” says Richard Jones, partner at building consultant Arcadis. “While that business model has dominated, off-site has always remained a cottage industry.”

The sustainability argument is not straightforward either. Prefab homes may be more energy efficient but critics such as Mike Leonard, chief executive of the Building Alliance, say their components are overwhelmingly imported, which adds air miles. In contrast, says Leonard, traditionally-built houses source 80% of materials domestically.

While there is no reliable data on uptake, the most recent estimate by the National House Building Council suggests fewer than one in six homes uses off-site technologies, and maybe one in 20 the kind being pioneered by Bloxham.

There is also the contentious issue of employment. “What you’re getting with off-site is not superior, it’s imported and it’s costing British jobs,” says Leonard.

 

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You can buy a two bed terrace, in move in condition, for 80 grand in some northern towns, obviously including the land. Built simply for the working class, but a century later still going strong. I doubt you will be able to say the same for those prefabs, or indeed most new builds.

 

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8 hours ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:

 Can prefab homes solve UK's housing crisis?

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jan/26/prefab-homes-uk-housing-crisis-modular-offsite-construction-manchester-liverpool-energy-efficiency?CMP=share_btn_tw

Bit of a puff piece for  Tom Bloxham, chief executive of Urban Splash, the inner city flat developer.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, nothernsoul said:

You can buy a two bed terrace, in move in condition, for 80 grand in some northern towns, obviously including the land. Built simply for the working class, but a century later still going strong. I doubt you will be able to say the same for those prefabs, or indeed most new builds.

 

After a bit of digging ...

http://salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=3291

Quote

URBAN SPLASH `AFFORDABLE’ RIVERSIDE SALFORD HOUSES COST UP TO £335,000

Star date: 9th June 2016

URBAN SPLASH WOULDN'T PAY £639,000 PLANNING FEES – BUT HOUSES ON MARKET FOR £335,000

"We started out...to make...affordable housing" Jonathan Falkingham, Urban Splash

Urban Splash has put the first of its 71 pre-fab terraced HoUSes up for sale in Trinity, with costs between £250,000 and £335,000 plus add-ons. At the Salford Council planning panel meeting in January, it was stated that Urban Splash should have paid £639,529 in fees (not even the cost of two houses), which the company avoided as it said the scheme wouldn't be `viable'.

Meanwhile, Jonathan Falkingham of Urban Splash has been telling the media that the new houses are "affordable"...

Quote

Urban Splash should have paid £639,529 in Section 106 fees and should also have provided 10% affordable houses but, as usual, the developer stated that the scheme wouldn't be `viable' if it had to cough up.

Urban Splash (US) avoided paying anything, except a clawback arrangement of `up to £100,000' towards a riverside walkway (even though there's one already there) if the scheme subsequently makes an even bigger profit than US predicted.

Now the first of the pre-fab terraces, branded `HoUSes', are on sale, with prices ranging between £250,000 and £335,000, and the brochure stating this is the `Plot based price only', with `additional costs' depending on layout. The Section 106 fees totalled the market price of just two of the houses on sale, never mind the avoided 10% of affordable houses that US should have been supplying.

Meanwhile, Jonathan Falkingham, co-founder and creative director of Urban Splash, told the Sunday Times recently on the subject of the HoUSe development that "We started out with this really simple proposition - to make well designed, affordable housing...We just want to offer something different, because we think there is a demand for it."

The last official housing waiting list numbers for Salford was 14,194, although people have been kicked off the list since the housing allocation policy was changed earlier this year (see here). And, according to Council figures, the average Salford resident's wage is £23,903 (see here), making these properties totally unaffordable.

Urban Splash founder, Tom Bloxham, will be speaking at the huge Housing 2016 Conference at the end of June on `gaining community buy in to regenerationprojects', and the company will be running shuttle buses from the Conference to its show HoUSe.

Greater Manchester Housing Action Group, which is fighting for more real affordable housing in the region, will be running a series of actions and alternative meetings to coincide with the Conference (more details to follow).

Meanwhile, the actual site for Urban Splash development, down Springfield Lane, off Trinity Way, is yet to be started despite the houses going on sale. The development will be a part-gated community (with gates 2.1metres high) within a flood zone 2 area - where "dwellings could be flooded to a depth of 1.1m", and the company will be trashing a massive 365 trees on the site as part of construction, as well as upsetting the schedule one black redstart bird which has been spotted nesting in the area.

This week, some homeless people didn't wait for the unaffordable properties to be built – and pitched tents on the site, which Urban Splash boasts has `Harvey Nics less than half a mile away!'

 

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