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Saving For a Space Ship

Hard-pressed tenants need a union to stand up for their rights

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15 minutes ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:

Oh ffs, bl@@dy stupid guardian journalists. No, trade unions represent people at work.  What tennents need is legislation passed by government. Something like the old rent control laws. 

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whether you called it a union (may be confused with workplace unions) or something like the private residential tenants association, doesn't really matter but an organised group lobbying for private tenants rights and interests I think would be for the good. Why not?

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2 minutes ago, Wayward said:

whether you called it a union (may be confused with workplace unions) or something like the private residential tenants association, doesn't really matter but an organised group lobbying for private tenants rights and interests I think would be for the good. Why not?

Well said. I agree completely.

http://www.rentersrising.org.uk/

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Agreed.

You'd be surprised how many tenants prefer to stay as second class citizens though. When I've tried to stand up to a rogue landlord and I've tried to get some of their other tenants on board they have blocked it and called me a trouble-maker. This is despite suffering similar issues as me and doing as much complaining about the landlord behind their back as I did...but when it comes time to get the council involved suddenly the other tenants are on the side of the landlord!

You'd be amazed how many tenants' websites talk down to their audience as well, telling them that what their landlord wants is more important than what works for them : "you must let the landlord come round whenever he wants, after all it's his property". 

Stockholm Syndrome comes to mind.

 

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2 hours ago, EnglishinWales said:

You'd be amazed how many tenants' websites talk down to their audience as well, telling them that what their landlord wants is more important than what works for them : "you must let the landlord come round whenever he wants, after all it's his property". 

 

You'd be amazed how many idiots there are out there. Someone didn't want to complain about the damp and bad electrics cos they like where the house is. You can't help some people.

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4 hours ago, SarahBell said:

You'd be amazed how many idiots there are out there. Someone didn't want to complain about the damp and bad electrics cos they like where the house is. You can't help some people.

The situation is so badly weighted against the tenant that fighting is mostly futile. 

The law is entirely rigged in the landlord's favour to an astounding degree.  A house has to be actually dangerous before anything happens. Pay thousands a year in rent and find the TV doesn't work? Tough. 

Even if that were fixed, there's the basic asymmetry of a battle over your home with someone who has a key, but has somewhere else to go.  Lose and they might have to fork out a few grand, whereas you might be homeless.  Even if you win you might be homeless.

Even if you don't lose and you don't get evicted, you might find more humiliating inspections, or delays when the hot water shuts off, and so on.

The risk and stress are so one-sided I'm amazed anyone ever takes action at all.

 

 

Edited by BuyToLeech

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4 minutes ago, BuyToLeech said:

The situation is so badly weighted against the tenant that fighting is mostly futile. 

The law is entirely rigged in the landlord's favour to an astounding degree.  A house has to be actually dangerous before anything happens. Pay thousands a year in rent and find the TV doesn't work? Tough. 

Even if that were fixed, there's the basic asymmetry of a battle over your home with someone who has a key, but has somewhere else to go.  Lose and they might have to fork out a few grand, whereas you might be homeless.  Even if you win you might be homeless.

Even if you don't lose and you don't get evicted, you might find more humiliating inspections, or delays when the hot water shuts off, and so on.

The risk and stress are so one-sided I'm amazed anyone ever takes action at all.

 

 

Agree.  Moving has significant financial and time costs.  It is often easier to tolerate / fix problems yourself than to demand anything from the landlord and risk having to find a new accommodation.

Particularly as the house is in above average conditions (I did some minor decoration myself), so the landlord they will have no problem find a replacement tenant quickly.

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Looking at a preview of the Victoria Derbyshire show, I see that Acorn got themselves a slot on the show this morning (and this is not nothing; the same show seems to have single-handedly changed the rules over when surgical meshes can be used).

Acorn appear to be having success, even where councils are refusing to get involved. Basically, they get together outside a rogue landlords house and picket them until action is taken (!).

It strikes me that astronomical house prices in the capital etc are drawing more and more professionals into the 'tenant class', and these people know how to use the law to their advantage. And some of these types are seeing an opportunity to make a name (and career?) for themselves in this field. So this could be a much bigger deal than forum members are anticipating.

Acorn also fund raise. I'm not sure how these funds are currently deployed, but if it's anything like a union, the funds could end up being used to support tenants who are in dispute. Tenants are usually keen to keep the peace for fear of ending up homeless for the duration of a dispute. Imagine if the alternative to the streets was a comfortable hotel. In such circumstances, I can imagine a time when tenants are happy to take action over very minor problems. Then again, landlords have only got themselves to blame in that regard. We've all see the slum-landlord shows. Decent landlords everywhere should have realised they'd get tarred with the same brush and pushed for more safeguarding of tenants. But that never happened. Instead they played the victim, blamed tenants, and now we have a tenants union that seems to be growing big teeth.

Acorn

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3 hours ago, Sledgehead said:

Could be interesting, depending on whether Acorn is a "know your rights and play the game" organisation or a "make a lot of noise" organisation.

Edited by Will!

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On 14/12/2016 at 1:00 PM, EnglishinWales said:

Agreed.

You'd be surprised how many tenants prefer to stay as second class citizens though. When I've tried to stand up to a rogue landlord and I've tried to get some of their other tenants on board they have blocked it and called me a trouble-maker. This is despite suffering similar issues as me and doing as much complaining about the landlord behind their back as I did...but when it comes time to get the council involved suddenly the other tenants are on the side of the landlord!

You'd be amazed how many tenants' websites talk down to their audience as well, telling them that what their landlord wants is more important than what works for them : "you must let the landlord come round whenever he wants, after all it's his property". 

Stockholm Syndrome comes to mind.

Stock-homes Syndrome I call it - and I have noticed the very same as you.

Like they've accepted  - no fight.

Was in a disagreement on other media a couple of weeks ago, and (seemingly people in their 20s - although GTRabbit could have been a BTLer) wouldn't accept my arguments about BTL , seemingly in 'defence of capitalism'.  All my positioning was attacked as hard-left, socialist and even.... communist.

All came after I pushed back to this guy's position (KN)... and he re-tweeeted my post and made his own comment.  Then elsewhere a few of his 'capitalism / anti-socialism' followers pushed back on me. :)   KN seems to be wary about 'dangers of socialism' etc - that's the gist I got from all his posts.

D3mkwrb.png

A flavour below - there were others involved in the exchange... and one had a young-man avatar.. and told how he grew up in a council house... may have been a renter himself but was die-hard about free-markets and anything that slows/stops/taxes-harder BTL as being anti-capitalism.  Was only 'build more houses' - even after my pushback of how many newbuilds the BTLers have claimed since 2000.

Quote

 

Venger: It is utterly specious to try and compare the rent-seeking activities of landlords with the productive service sector industries - entertainment, transport and so on.  #FakeCapitalistsBTLers  (h/t BuyToLeech)

Venger: The fundamental failing in our culture. The inability to distinguish between productive and parasitic activity within a market economy. You've been brainwashed by neoliberalism to think that any distinction between activities within a market economy is Marxism. #FakeCapitalistBoy  (h/t) 

......

GTRabbit: You're espousing blatantly anti-capitalist sentiment while claiming you're not opposed to capitalism. It's painfully absurd.

GTRabbit: People "lay claim" to multiple homes for the same reasons they buy businesses, machinery, or other infrastructure.

GTRabbit: Josh is absolutely correct in his response. Lamenting capital ownership is explicitly anti-capitalist sentiment.  Homes are the means of production, and you're saying the "greedy" bourgeoisie shouldn't be allowed to own them.

GTRabbit: If a landlord wants to outbid competing buyers, it's just as much his right to do so as it is the previous homeowner's right to accept the better sale.

GTRabbit:  Whatever you say, Bolshevik.

 

:lol:

So many people defend BTL - including of course many older owners... helps lift value of their homses, with BTLers holding/hogging so many homes, and fewer homes on the market - imo.

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59 minutes ago, Venger said:

Stock-homes Syndrome I call it - and I have noticed the very same as you.

Like they've accepted  - no fight.

Was in a disagreement on other media a couple of weeks ago, and (seemingly people in their 20s - although GTRabbit could have been a BTLer) wouldn't accept my arguments about BTL , seemingly in 'defence of capitalism'.  All my positioning was attacked as hard-left, socialist and even.... communist.

All came after I pushed back to this guy's position (KN)... and he re-tweeeted my post and made his own comment.  Then elsewhere a few of his 'capitalism / anti-socialism' followers pushed back on me. :)   KN seems to be wary about 'dangers of socialism' etc - that's the gist I got from all his posts.

D3mkwrb.png

A flavour below - there were others involved in the exchange... and one had a young-man avatar.. and told how he grew up in a council house... may have been a renter himself but was die-hard about free-markets and anything that slows/stops/taxes-harder BTL as being anti-capitalism.  Was only 'build more houses' - even after my pushback of how many newbuilds the BTLers have claimed since 2000.

:lol:

So many people defend BTL - including of course many older owners... helps lift value of their homses, with BTLers holding/hogging so many homes, and fewer homes on the market - imo.

Nice one, Veng! I've had my own run-ins with the junior economics professoriat over the years and generally found their 'expertise' to be about as deep as an airport puddle. Even more terrifying is the realisation that the Bank and the Treasury is rammed full of these obdurate mules.

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1 hour ago, zugzwang said:

Nice one, Veng! I've had my own run-ins with the junior economics professoriat over the years and generally found their 'expertise' to be about as deep as an airport puddle. Even more terrifying is the realisation that the Bank and the Treasury is rammed full of these obdurate mules.

Thanks - and zugzwang, ordinarily some might find that claim difficult to believe, but you've just reminded me of one article from 2016 from the Bank's own blog.

Quote

 

15 JULY 2016 · 7:30 AM
The ballad of the landlord and the loan

Mariana Gimpelewicz and Tom Stratton.

https://bankunderground.co.uk/2016/07/15/the-ballad-of-the-landlord-and-the-loan/

 

27 x 'tenant demand'

in there - and probably more roundabout variants of the same.

I checked at the time, but one would expect the Banks own bloggers to be more on GenRent side of things (vs these prices) - if in their 20s - 30s... and able to see more of the brunt of matters on GenRent side vs these prices... and the speculation/BTLism out there on houses... including that lady in Times at weekend with 4 BTLs in London ("but never feel wealthy").

...also I got the impression they might not know direction of travel (that S24 may not be on their minds)... just took a view that some write their BTL++++ pro stuff because they think it's what their paymasters want to read (although may be wrong).   I can't see it as misdirection to BTLers/other readers... very few readers (?).

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20 hours ago, Venger said:

Stock-homes Syndrome I call it - and I have noticed the very same as you.

Like they've accepted  - no fight.

Was in a disagreement on other media a couple of weeks ago, and (seemingly people in their 20s - although GTRabbit could have been a BTLer) wouldn't accept my arguments about BTL , seemingly in 'defence of capitalism'.  All my positioning was attacked as hard-left, socialist and even.... communist.

All came after I pushed back to this guy's position (KN)... and he re-tweeeted my post and made his own comment.  Then elsewhere a few of his 'capitalism / anti-socialism' followers pushed back on me. :)   KN seems to be wary about 'dangers of socialism' etc - that's the gist I got from all his posts.

D3mkwrb.png

A flavour below - there were others involved in the exchange... and one had a young-man avatar.. and told how he grew up in a council house... may have been a renter himself but was die-hard about free-markets and anything that slows/stops/taxes-harder BTL as being anti-capitalism.  Was only 'build more houses' - even after my pushback of how many newbuilds the BTLers have claimed since 2000.

:lol:

So many people defend BTL - including of course many older owners... helps lift value of their homses, with BTLers holding/hogging so many homes, and fewer homes on the market - imo.

Jesus are they still trotting out the landlords will stop playing and take their houses with them if tenants get any rights myth?

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