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TheCountOfNowhere

An evening with a BTLer

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I went to see an old friend of mine in Oxford last night.

He's got into BTL recently, now owns 6 houses.

Talking to him was like reading on of those odious 118 forums.

He's doing great, he's worth X hundred thousand pounds ( less mortgage debt of course ) , you cant loose on property, the area he buys in is different, the tax changes wont affect him, when interest rates go up house prices will too ( that was a corker ) the government will support BTL, the lending changes wont affect BTL.  I was a mug to sell my house.

I had to leave early.

Lost a friend.

 

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10 minutes ago, dougless said:

Situations like that are difficult.  Just be there for them when it all goes wrong and try not to say "I told you so".

F**K THAT.  I wont be there till it goes wrong then I'll be laughing and telling him what a stupid deluded c**t he was.

 

I could scarcely believe what I heard coming out of his mouth. 

I told him about bit's of London collapsing and he wouldnt have it, said I was making it up.

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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4 minutes ago, GreenDevil said:

Point him in the direction of the telegraph and guardian threads recently.

Give a nice overview where we are regarding public opinion of BTL scum.

I'm not sure he would care.  I pointed out he was stopping people buying but he said ( 118 style ) I'm providing housing for people who cant afford to buy,  I pointed out the madness of the IO mortgage and the fact OOs are, quite rightly, denies these fraudulent mortgages, but he wasnt having it.

As I said, lost a friend last night.  

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People like him provide a vital service helping those who can't afford to get on the housing ladder, to not afford to get on the housing ladder.

Yes the government will protect them, they represent such a large minority ... far more value in vote terms than 2 generations of angry young ones.

Good for him putting you in your place.

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30 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

I went to see an old friend of mine in Oxford last night.

He's got into BTL recently, now owns 6 houses.

Talking to him was like reading on of those odious 118 forums.

He's doing great, he's worth X hundred thousand pounds ( less mortgage debt of course ) , you cant loose on property, the area he buys in is different, the tax changes wont affect him, when interest rates go up house prices will too ( that was a corker ) the government will support BTL, the lending changes wont affect BTL.  I was a mug to sell my house.

I had to leave early.

Lost a friend.

 

 

30 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

I went to see an old friend of mine in Oxford last night.

He's got into BTL recently, now owns 6 houses.

Talking to him was like reading on of those odious 118 forums.

He's doing great, he's worth X hundred thousand pounds ( less mortgage debt of course ) , you cant loose on property, the area he buys in is different, the tax changes wont affect him, when interest rates go up house prices will too ( that was a corker ) the government will support BTL, the lending changes wont affect BTL.  I was a mug to sell my house.

I had to leave early.

Lost a friend.

 

I doubt they own them, they hold an interest in them, an interest that makes them fully responsible for them....they have most certainly taken on a huge debt commitment future cost unknown and uncertain....if they have invested their shirt on black they are making a risky bet......landlords require quality tenants, so how profitable or not their investment is boils down to their customers the people who put the pounds into their pockets.

No reason to lose a friend over this, they make their bed they lie in it.....;)

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6 minutes ago, wsn03 said:

People like him provide a vital service helping those who can't afford to get on the housing ladder, to not afford to get on the housing ladder.

Yes the government will protect them, they represent such a large minority ... far more value in vote terms than 2 generations of angry young ones.

Good for him putting you in your place.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

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I think I just lost a childhood friend last week. Text talk turned to interest rates, house prices etc. He's always giving me a sob story about his life, divorced, had to buy missus a new house and remortgage the old one, works in London all week, shit commute. He's on £100k plus...

Anyway, he's been giving me advice on getting a house, usual crap where you want to say, "don't you think I thought of that over last 30 years", you know, phrases like knuckle down, work hard etc. Started telling me the only reason he gets paid lots is because he's so wonderful and hard working, made sacrifices. He's the sort of person who'll criticise someone over what watch they are wearing (at which point I usually have a look at my £5 Casio). I had to finally tell him about the people I know who work harder than him, have less time off etc and get paid £20k or less. He didn't like it. Thinks low interest rates and high house prices are good even though he has kids. Anyway, it's really sad but I have decided I just don't really care about him anymore. 35 years of friendship but now just too divided in opinion.

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5 minutes ago, Longtermrenter said:

I think I just lost a childhood friend last week. Text talk turned to interest rates, house prices etc. He's always giving me a sob story about his life, divorced, had to buy missus a new house and remortgage the old one, works in London all week, shit commute. He's on £100k plus...

Anyway, he's been giving me advice on getting a house, usual crap where you want to say, "don't you think I thought of that over last 30 years", you know, phrases like knuckle down, work hard etc. Started telling me the only reason he gets paid lots is because he's so wonderful and hard working, made sacrifices. He's the sort of person who'll criticise someone over what watch they are wearing (at which point I usually have a look at my £5 Casio). I had to finally tell him about the people I know who work harder than him, have less time off etc and get paid £20k or less. He didn't like it. Thinks low interest rates and high house prices are good even though he has kids. Anyway, it's really sad but I have decided I just don't really care about him anymore. 35 years of friendship but now just too divided in opinion.

And you're jealous?

He'll probably be replaced by an algorithm soon.

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Doesn't sound like a real friend tbh , I've had a few like that, 

When he starts losing money you won't hear a peep, or if you actually do, the situation will be a lot worse than you are led to believe.

100k should tide him over for the short term

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I was with a group of friends last night and the conversation was around homeless people sleeping rough, and one person who I didn't realise rented out a property said he has decided to sell it in the new year. And it occurred to me how many other BTL landlords are thinking the same thing. 

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11 minutes ago, Fudge said:

I was with a group of friends last night and the conversation was around homeless people sleeping rough, and one person who I didn't realise rented out a property said he has decided to sell it in the new year. And it occurred to me how many other BTL landlords are thinking the same thing. 

On the contrary, I met a guy who use to work with me in 2011(at that time he was a new immigrant to UK from US). Yesterday, he told me that he has bought a new built in canning town couple of years back and the price has gone up so much, he is MEWing £150k to buy another in the same area. He and his wife both IT contractor and children in private school. So the madness doesn't end. There are still some people so deluded and believes property is pension, at least that's what he told me.

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Where I live (Surrey villages) and at my age (49), there are very few people that are not 100% into BTL, flipping or just rampant HPI. I have very few friends left. It is no longer worth listening to the perma-gloat.

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17 minutes ago, CunningPlan said:

Where I live (Surrey villages) and at my age (49), there are very few people that are not 100% into BTL, flipping or just rampant HPI. I have very few friends left. It is no longer worth listening to the perma-gloat.

Who knows how itll pan out.

Its not going to end well if they've got more than 4 times income leverage.

I also question the medium o long term outcome of how London/SE will perform with the employment changes in financial services. Going further out, the low to medium financial service Cos have been gutted by tech and people not having space cash.

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I've learnt to avoid the topic with friends. It's just not worth it - if you spout your opinion they think you're mad/jealous, and if (once) you're proven right they'll resent you. A good pal of mine bought a BTL recently after an inheritance - I shook his hand, congratulated and wished him luck. Some people can't be helped, especially when they are faithful members of the Church of HPI and the sermons come from the BBC (mass of worship every weekday at 11.15am on BBC1, other services throughout the week).

Edited by mikthe20

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3 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

I told him about bit's of London collapsing and he wouldnt have it, said I was making it up.

Good. Keep them dumb for as long as possible - the more BTLers that realise what's going on too late in the day to respond effectively the better.

 

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40 minutes ago, CunningPlan said:

Where I live (Surrey villages) and at my age (49), there are very few people that are not 100% into BTL, flipping or just rampant HPI. I have very few friends left. It is no longer worth listening to the perma-gloat.

I must know some of these people.

It's so bad down there I've stoppped visiting relative.

They've mad £600K in 3 years it seems.

I'll visit when they've lost £800K in 1 year

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21 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Who knows how itll pan out.

Its not going to end well if they've got more than 4 times income leverage.

I also question the medium o long term outcome of how London/SE will perform with the employment changes in financial services. Going further out, the low to medium financial service Cos have been gutted by tech and people not having space cash.

The thing is, two IT contractors, maybe with a bank, living the dream in London can easily be earning £300K as a couple.

Those properties are cheap for them.

Till the contracts dry up of course.

 

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Your friend is gone, he might look and sound like the person you knew, but once infected by the DEBTjunkie virus, there is no coming back. Run, and don't look back.

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11 minutes ago, mikthe20 said:

I've learnt to avoid the topic with friends. It's just not worth it - if you spout your opinion they think you're mad/jealous, and if (once) you're proven right they'll resent you. A good pal of mine bought a BTL recently after an inheritance - I shook his hand, congratulated and wished him luck. Some people can't be helped, especially when they are faithful members of the Church of HPI and the sermons come from the BBC (mass of worship every weekday at 11.15am on BBC1, other services throughout the week).

+1

 

I avoid the discussion at all times - it's just too emotive. Also, if the mother-in-laws partner mentions getting the ladder/missing out things may get ugly.

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54 minutes ago, hi5lo5 said:

On the contrary, I met a guy who use to work with me in 2011(at that time he was a new immigrant to UK from US). Yesterday, he told me that he has bought a new built in canning town couple of years back and the price has gone up so much, he is MEWing £150k to buy another in the same area. He and his wife both IT contractor and children in private school. So the madness doesn't end. There are still some people so deluded and believes property is pension, at least that's what he told me.

Well let's hope their investment in their children works out to be a good investment, 'cause their kids might work out to be their pension....;)

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13 minutes ago, mikthe20 said:

I've learnt to avoid the topic with friends. It's just not worth it - if you spout your opinion they think you're mad/jealous, and if (once) you're proven right they'll resent you.

Once proven right,....they'll be mad/jealous and resent you.

You reap what you sow in this life.  Give to them with both barrels.

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3 minutes ago, thewig said:

Your friend is gone, he might look and sound like the person you knew, but once infected by the DEBTjunkie virus, there is no coming back. Run, and don't look back.

I did.

He used to be a nice chap, a bit slow, but a nice chap.

Now he's a bit slow and a greedy ****

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My family are like this. They define someone's value in terms of whether they 'have a mortgage'and find me a bit of an embarrassment.

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