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'Guilt-free' tap and pay cards fuel debt crisis: Contactless payments gives instant gratification because it doesn't feel like spending real money


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Contactless "taps" into our monkey mind - the limbic system. The monkey brain in our heads takes over and wants instant gratification. Control your monkey brain!

If you go out with a plan before you to the shop and take the exact money, you are using you human perfrontal cortex. - Not good for the shops!

 

Moving_animated_monkey_jumping_up_and_do

Edited by 200p
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5 hours ago, regprentice said:

Notice for the first time today that my bank don't include contactless payments in my cleared/uncleared balance on my online statement, they just suddenly come off 2/3/4 days later. No idea why.

While i dont believe contactless payment isnt 'real money' i'm having an interesting experience piecing together my works christmas night out from the contactless payments randomly coming off my statement yesterday and today. No idea if there is more to come off tomorrow. 

 

Because contactless payments are designed to work "offline" meaning the payment card and the payment machine it is used with does not need to talk to the bank in real-time to take the money.  So things like parking meters / vending machines work, those devices may not even have a phone line (not even a mobile one).  Someone goes out and plugs in and downloads.  Or in the case of them having a phone line they batch up the transactions and send them through in a few seconds on a single call.

So the bank do not know about the transactions until the party collecting the monies call for them hours/days later.

This is also why payment is authorized so fast, as there is no machine telephoning/interneting the banking system to validate the transaction (i.e. you have sufficient funds).  The same thing can happen with chip-and-pin some vendors might have a transaction limit that can be taken offline (like below £30), but this may affect their transaction risks/costs the merchant always looses out when the transaction is found to be problematic.

Edited by Odin
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1 hour ago, 200p said:

1*pM3zivyz0k_bKg9rgwsSoA.png

Contactless "taps" into our monkey mind - the limbic system. The monkey brain in our heads takes over and wants instant gratification. Control your monkey brain!

If you go out with a plan before you to the shop and take the exact money, you are using you human perfrontal cortex. - Not good for the shops!

 

Moving_animated_monkey_jumping_up_and_do

Agreed - I take out my weekly "personal cash" from the cash point on a Monday.  If my wallets empty by Friday that means a quiet weekend at home......I'm sure the bank would rather I ran up a small overdraft

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1 hour ago, Odin said:

Because contactless payments are designed to work "offline" meaning the payment card and the payment machine it is used with does not need to talk to the bank in real-time to take the money.  So things like parking meters / vending machines work, those devices may not even have a phone line (not even a mobile one).  Someone goes out and plugs in and downloads.  Or in the case of them having a phone line they batch up the transactions and send them through in a few seconds on a single call.

So the bank do not know about the transactions until the party collecting the monies call for them hours/days later.

This is also why payment is authorized so fast, as there is no machine telephoning/interneting the banking system to validate the transaction (i.e. you have sufficient funds).  The same thing can happen with chip-and-pin some vendors might have a transaction limit that can be taken offline (like below £30), but this may affect their transaction risks/costs the merchant always looses out when the transaction is found to be problematic.

so when they say it will only allow three transactions before s pin is required .. they actually mean nothing of the sort.

which explains why someone i know had ten transactions on her stolen card.

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2 hours ago, hotairmail said:

Think, combined with a Citizens' Income, we could just walk around grabbing things for ourselves as our desires wish. Just you, a human with needs. Is that the future?

I think it's a possible future - at least in some respects (particularly if you belong to the techno-optimist crowd).  Abundance is already here for many things digital. Netflix already lets you grab anything digital video wise off the shelf for a small monthly fee. The stuff of 80s video watchers wet dreams.  Food too is pretty cheap at least in historical terms. Fresh water, sanitation, and basic health care also very cheap. 

The next obvious step after the one you suggest is to do without money. If there's enough for everyone, and everyone's needs are met - why bother with exchange tokens. 

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Experts at Business School warn it's threatening ‘dangerous’ debt storm

Pah, worry warts. Just like those Brexit/Trump supporters they are unintelligent and Luddite unprogressive xenotechs. They should be celebrating the coming new age of ease of spending! The days when you left your front door open, and said hello to the milkman will never come back!

 

Please note this post is satirical. Please don't cause a twitter storm.

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I've been thinking about this thread and have come to realise that yes, it is a dangerous thing for one's financial health in the wrong hands.  However, it's more about education, not schooling, but education from parents. In other words how you have been brought up.  Young people learn from experience and if they see their parents spunk it all away and live beyond their means and in debt then they will follow. Same with how young people approach work.  Some will want to whilst others will be happy to waste their lives on benefits.

It is learnt behaviour pure and simple.  Unfortunately successive governments have encouraged and even rewarded feckless behaviour 

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17 hours ago, Dogtanian said:

i seem to have got into the habit of using contactless more and more.  I hate as other posters have noted that or doesn't come of your balance straight away.  

Any boffin knows why?  Surely they are going through the same path as chip and pin I.e. terminal to bank etc?  

It definitely does come out of the balance 'immediately' or as good as - I can see the transactions registered on my pre-pay debit card when I fire up the app after I make the purchase, to check the balance.

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4 hours ago, One-percent said:

I've been thinking about this thread and have come to realise that yes, it is a dangerous thing for one's financial health in the wrong hands.  However, it's more about education, not schooling, but education from parents. In other words how you have been brought up.  Young people learn from experience and if they see their parents spunk it all away and live beyond their means and in debt then they will follow. Same with how young people approach work.  Some will want to whilst others will be happy to waste their lives on benefits.

It is learnt behaviour pure and simple.  Unfortunately successive governments have encouraged and even rewarded feckless behaviour 

 

Education from parents???????  Bwahahahahahahaha.  It's the responsibility of the schools/ the rest of society to make sure that their special snowflakes are brought up properly, didn't you know?!  In the event of bad behaviour, "They are just 'expressing themselves' and they'll grow out of it and how dare you criticise me!".

Seriously, there has long been a worrying trend of piss poor parenting leading to kids entering adulthood with negligible life skills, totally unable to cope with the responsibilities of adulthood.  Anyone under the age of 30 seems unable to understand the difference between credit limit on a card and actually holding credit.

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14 hours ago, StainlessSteelCat said:

The next obvious step after the one you suggest is to do without money. If there's enough for everyone, and everyone's needs are met - why bother with exchange tokens. 

Only possible when there's more than enough of everything you might want. There will always be limits on some things - want to go to a live concert? Limited by the capacity of the venue. Some places will always be nicer to live in than others, even if the actual housing quality is the same everywhere. There are alternatives to money (e.g. allocate tickets to the concert by lottery) but would they be more or less palatable for most people?

As for contactless, it's mostly another thing that I don't see much point in. I'll stick to cash for small amounts. If nothing else then at least it means that everything I spend isn't a matter of record.

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On 12/13/2016 at 0:09 PM, Sour Mash said:

I'll bet if you looked into how IQs have changed over the last few decades, you'll find that like everything else they've suffered from inflation.

 

A 100 IQ score today probably wouldn't get you as much actual intelligence as 100 points would have 10 or 20 years ago ....

The opposite is true, IQs go up over time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

 

 

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5 hours ago, One-percent said:

I've been thinking about this thread and have come to realise that yes, it is a dangerous thing for one's financial health in the wrong hands.  However, it's more about education, not schooling, but education from parents. In other words how you have been brought up.  Young people learn from experience and if they see their parents spunk it all away and live beyond their means and in debt then they will follow. Same with how young people approach work.  Some will want to whilst others will be happy to waste their lives on benefits.

It is learnt behaviour pure and simple.  Unfortunately successive governments have encouraged and even rewarded feckless behaviour 

I'll add some balance and say that it's more likely that offspring will follow parental behaviour, but not guaranteed.

Some folk grow up to express freedom of choice which is far removed from their early role models.

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49 minutes ago, Sour Mash said:

 

Education from parents???????  Bwahahahahahahaha.  It's the responsibility of the schools/ the rest of society to make sure that their special snowflakes are brought up properly, didn't you know?!  In the event of bad behaviour, "They are just 'expressing themselves' and they'll grow out of it and how dare you criticise me!".

Seriously, there has long been a worrying trend of piss poor parenting leading to kids entering adulthood with negligible life skills, totally unable to cope with the responsibilities of adulthood.  Anyone under the age of 30 seems unable to understand the difference between credit limit on a card and actually holding credit.

Quite it was what I was trying to say in a subtle way :)  the art and craft of teaching has gone for many as they abrogate their parental responsibilities and expect the state and education to step in and do their job

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Ah the HPC control squad at it again.

All people need 'one of you' with them at all times, deciding what they can spend their money (or access to credit) for Chrimbo presents. 

If they go on a splurge to excess on Christmas presents- someone is to blame other than themselves.

I could spend huge too on all the snazzy gifts but have budget to remain within - always done so.  Still looking at the thick end of £400 on Christmas gifts.  Was far less in previous years, including home made gifts.  Budget.  Choice.  Freewill.  Market.

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The problem is magnified around Christmas when there is a huge pressure to spend to satisfy children and family. 

Debt = have/enjoy the good stuff, but be a victim.

Bit like all the anti-HPC.  'They just wanted a home' (at whatever ridiculous asking price - and should have been a HPCer around them at all times controlling them from overpaying and overriding their own market decisions for them - and as not, must be a victim of something other than their own choices).

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  • 433 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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