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Cosmic Apple

Jeremy Corbyn considering radical plan to ban petrol car sales

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Christ! Almighty! I did a lot of acid, but never came back like this.

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Maybe there is a cunning plan.  Now that it looks like the tulip, sorry housing bubble is about to pop, there needs to be a new one created so as to suck the last remaining penny from the great unwashed.  They are offering a 10 year lead in so the Savvy investor will buy up empty set aside fields and fill them with cars as an investment. What could go wrong?

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3 minutes ago, Northern Welsh Midlander said:

We'll be like Cuba or Africa in a decades time, all running around in shit buckets patched together with bits of old road signs.

Unfortunately we don't have the dry weather they do, so the old cars will just rot around us.  It will be more like an episode of the flint stones, with our feet sticking out the bottom of the floor pan

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It ain't just Corby:

Diesel cars face total ban in four of the world's biggest cities by 2025, 9 December 2016

Doctors call for ban on diesel engines in London, 10 December 2016

 

meanwhile:

Paris bans cars for second day running as pollution chokes city, 7 December 2016

 

My bet is that we see a move towards rented electric driverless. Everything is becoming a service. It's the way they want it. Recessions are caused by booms which are themselves caused by ownership. Even your classic cars will at some point cease to be street legal.

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Bear in mind hes from the party that encouraged people to buy diesels FFS.

A real brains trust there.

Diesels should be banned from cities. And 1l+ petrol engines heavily taxed in large cities.

Jezza needs to lead by exmaple by banning all Labour MPs from having a car. No excuses

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

Bear in mind hes from the party that encouraged people to buy diesels FFS.

A real brains trust there.

Diesels should be banned from cities. And 1l+ petrol engines heavily taxed in large cities.

Jezza needs to lead by exmaple by banning all Labour MPs from having a car. No excuses

 

 

 

Ah, but, you have misunderstood. The car ban is for the little people, not the likes of MPs and captains of industry 

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Nobody needs to ban anything.

As the technology improves then the price of electric cars comes down and their range goes up.

For some on here they have already hit the point where it makes financial sense to buy one; based upon the rate of improvement it looks like I will too in ten to twenty years' time.

I have no emotional attachment to having a diesel or petrol engine; but I do want to have a car.

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11 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Nobody needs to ban anything.

As the technology improves then the price of electric cars comes down and their range goes up.

For some on here they have already hit the point where it makes financial sense to buy one; based upon the rate of improvement it looks like I will too in ten to twenty years' time.

I have no emotional attachment to having a diesel or petrol engine; but I do want to have a car.

If he bans them, then the transfer to electric was because of him, and he gets to pretend that he's a visionary for pissing about bringing forward something that would have happened anyway. :)

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17 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Nobody needs to ban anything.

As the technology improves then the price of electric cars comes down and their range goes up.

For some on here they have already hit the point where it makes financial sense to buy one; based upon the rate of improvement it looks like I will too in ten to twenty years' time.

I have no emotional attachment to having a diesel or petrol engine; but I do want to have a car.

That's true but I think government does have a role in helping the transition to happen quicker.  If they ban the sale of new cars with legacy engines then it ensures there will be a higher volume of new electric car sales which should help accelerate the economies of scale needed to bring down costs.

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Quote

Other ideas Mr Corbyn is exploring include smashing the dominance of the “big six” energy firms by allowing any individual who generates electricity to sell it to their neighbours.

I like that one. That's the thing with Corbyn, in amongst the crazy left wing fruit-loopery there's a few genuinely interesting ideas.

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10 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Nobody needs to ban anything.

As the technology improves then the price of electric cars comes down and their range goes up.

 

And yet huge numbers rent their £600 mobile phones (otherwise known as a contract).

Why so? Well, a huge proportion of the cost of a cellphone is the battery. But batteries have limited charge cycles, no need replacing. But most people can't face tackling that.

Then there is the constant need to upgrade for security.

And then there is the marketing that persuades people they really need the latest design or tech.

I can't see why batteries for fully electric cars would not constitute an even bigger slice of their on-the-road price. I would imagine the economics are not dissimilar to UPSs. I don't see many people choosing to replace their defunct car batteries when a new car, with all the finance options that come with such things, becomes almost as affordable.  So expect lifecyles for electric cars to be similar to cellphones.

For driverless, the security issue becomes bigger than cellphones: you stand to lose your life, not just your identity / bank balance. Problems won't be fixable merely by firmware upgrades; they haven't been that way for computers or mobile phones so why expect it for cars?

And then there's the need to keep up with the latest tech and design. That need won't be any less pressing for car users than cellphone users.

In short, the car becomes much the same as a cellphone, albeit with a higher price tag. I expect most will effectively rent.

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8 minutes ago, TheBlueCat said:

I like that one. That's the thing with Corbyn, in amongst the crazy left wing fruit-loopery there's a few genuinely interesting ideas.

And what about processing your own sewage?

Fancy that? Why not? There's the monopoly after all.

 

I suppose you also favour ways to heat your home off grid. Like dirty, smelly wood-burners. And they all are. Just ask the manufacturers who all advise sweeping your chimney regularly, presumably to remove all the triple distilled H2O that collects there :rolleyes:

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4 hours ago, MrPin said:

Christ! Almighty! I did a lot of acid, but never came back like this.

+1

The idea of a ban on IC-engined cars could only be dreamed up by someone who lives close to a tube station and never ever sees a cow - except from their plane window as they jet off to the Edinburgh Festival.

At a purely practical level, with the long-term trend towards fewer and bigger hospitals, people in rural areas are having to travel further and further to reach A&E or maternity wards. I wonder how many people - especially in Scotland - physically could not rush their wife to a maternity ward and then drive home again on a single charge of their Renault Zoe? And that's assuming - of course - that their leccy car was kept constantly on full charge during the last few weeks of pregnancy.

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20 minutes ago, Sledgehead said:

And what about processing your own sewage?

Fancy that? Why not? There's the monopoly after all.

 

I suppose you also favour ways to heat your home off grid. Like dirty, smelly wood-burners. And they all are. Just ask the manufacturers who all advise sweeping your chimney regularly, presumably to remove all the triple distilled H2O that collects there :rolleyes:

Who mentioned sewage or wood burning stoves, I certainly didn't? The point was about small scale electricity generation and supply, which I think is a good idea and should be tried. If the law stops people doing it, then the law should be changed.

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I seriously doubt that there is much room for improvement of electric vehicles powered by batteries.

The Chemistry is well known, even batteries with boiling caustic soda do not reach anything like the energy density of petrol.

 

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7 minutes ago, Byron said:

I seriously doubt that there is much room for improvement of electric vehicles powered by batteries.

The Chemistry is well known, even batteries with boiling caustic soda do not reach anything like the energy density of petrol.

 

Ignoring the cost issues, the problem is not so much the battery itself as the recharge time. If electric car battery packs were quickly swappable and interchangeable then I can imagine a system where you go to a charging station and have your car battery swapped for a fully charged one by some kind of automated process. It may be technically just about feasible but I can't imagine the economics every working out. 

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48 minutes ago, TheBlueCat said:

Who mentioned sewage or wood burning stoves, I certainly didn't? The point was about small scale electricity generation and supply, which I think is a good idea and should be tried. If the law stops people doing it, then the law should be changed.

And my point is that micro-anything can never hope to run as efficiently as macro-anything.

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2 minutes ago, Sledgehead said:

And my point is that micro-anything can never hope to run as efficiently as macro-anything.

And that's just patently untrue. If anything, the reverse is the case.

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52 minutes ago, DeepLurker said:

 I wonder how many people - especially in Scotland - physically could not rush their wife to a maternity ward and then drive home again on a single charge of their Renault Zoe? And that's assuming - of course - that their leccy car was kept constantly on full charge during the last few weeks of pregnancy.

Bunged up the drains last night (I'm guessing too much cabbage - my jobbies have been thrusting 'emselves above the loo-pan fluid like orcas trying to frighten seals from floating pack-ice). Donned my head-torch and grabbed my rechargeable 10 zillion candle power death ray. Guess what? Both flat within 5 mins. result? Fall-back to my utility. As inconvenient as it may sound, there I was, running around with a power-washer and lead-lamp.

I think you can tell from this story that I am not impractical. Nevertheless, I was more or less forced in an emergency to rely on the pros: EDF energy. Many will espose the virtues of micro-generation w/o the first idea about what it entails. And I'm not talking about anyone here. I'm talking about others, who simply can't understand why their electricity costs anything. They have it in their heads that it is expensive and that the latest release of Call Of Duty is much better value. That's just how people are.

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11 minutes ago, TheBlueCat said:

And that's just patently untrue. If anything, the reverse is the case.

Is it really? Where are the studies that show the whole-life costs of a micro-generation system? I still hear people claiming wood burners are cheaper to run than gas. If people can argue that, I'm bound to be skeptical about more complex technologies.

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34 minutes ago, TheBlueCat said:

Ignoring the cost issues, the problem is not so much the battery itself as the recharge time. If electric car battery packs were quickly swappable and interchangeable then I can imagine a system where you go to a charging station and have your car battery swapped for a fully charged one by some kind of automated process. It may be technically just about feasible but I can't imagine the economics every working out. 

That original bit sounds reasonable.

But as you rightly say, things don't work out that way. t's why folks end up throwing away cellphones every couple of years.

Indeed as car manufacturers strive to best the competition in the area of greatest concern - battery capacity, longevity, and charge time, doubtless they will tweak cell chemistry and shape on at least a yearly basis.

As this will be the chief R&D cost, chances are it will constitute a large part of the car cost.

Moreover batteries will most likely not standardise around a single form factor. We know this from the mobile phone / computing industry. Prior to the advent of the mobile phone / portable computer, batteries had assumed standardised shapes for years. The need to compete around capacity, longevity and charge time changed all that. My suspicion is the car industry will lead to yet another proliferation in battery types and forms, just bigger.

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