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Clarky Cat

Guardian: Buy to let: ‘We landlords are being vilified’

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The comments are beautiful. :)

Quote

“There’s a housing shortage, and landlords help this by providing accommodation – but they are being vilified,”

Breathtaking...

It's another BTL bingo game. Someone do the checklist, lol.

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“There’s a housing shortage, and landlords help this by providing accommodation

Christ still peddling this bullcrap. Landlords are providing nothing in terms of additional accommodation. Packing more bodies into the same housing units maybe (and thereby leveraging up the cost for others who do not wish to live in a doss house), but adding stock nope, builders do that.

 

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Don't they understand that savers have lost their yields over a long period of boiling the frog process....so what makes them so special that they should not now be  losing their yields created from nothing, only tax relief and  debt?....;)

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Some BTL-ers are better than others though, from the comments

Quote

whilst I have little sympathy for people with huge portfolio's of property, there are many people of very modest means who simply have maybe one or two properties which help with their otherwise non existent pension, often started simply when they moved in with a partner and kept their own house, or inherited a house.

Err, if you are 60 with ~ 20 years left to live and you have inherited a spare house, you're probably better off selling it, sticking the cash in the building society (even at current rates), and running down the cash. It'll be a lot more relaxing.

Edited by LiveinHope

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There's something cool going on here.

The Poverty Later guys are putting themselves out there as part of their campaign. However, they are campaigning because they are so badly affected and they are so badly affected because because they hold so much property with so much leverage.

The kicker is that they keep appearing in the articles and the details of their holdings keep appearing in the articles.

They are becoming representative of buy-to-let investors (in the mainstream media) even though they are not representative.

The joy of this is that the Property 118 Landlord campaign is providing the political cover that the government need to press on with Section 24.

There were a bunch of posters (and Phil321 was amongst them) who argued that the best way to convert somebody who was on the fence to actively supporting Section 24 was to expose them to the attitudes and beliefs of the Property 118 posters.

giphy.gif

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Anyone who bought a second 'investment pwoperdee' vs saving in a pension *because* they 'didn't trust/understand' pensions in the last 15 years is an idiot.

Really. A brainless, inept idiot who shouldn't be allowed a credit card with a 1k limit.

I can understand it (though disagree) if they thought the house was a better option. But if its because they didn't understand them, which is the typical trope, they are an idiot.

Hopefully I emphasised my feelings on that sufficiently.

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3 minutes ago, Frugal Git said:

Hopefully I emphasised my feelings on that sufficiently.

It's a seller's market on here for the idea that BTL investors are idiots. I could stand to hear a little more.

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1 minute ago, Bland Unsight said:

It's a seller's market on here for the idea that BTL investors are idiots. I could stand to hear a little more.

No need for me to write more. The comments section on that article is utterly magnificent. I've never seen that level of vitriol for them outside of here.

That vilification of BTL is going totally mainstream has made my weekend!

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I had my shoeshine moment of btl about six years ago when one of my really thick friends got into it.  It's my pension innit was their reasoning.  I thought at the time, well the last greater fool has just been sucked it, this thing is going to blow at some point soon.  Well, it has kept going for another six years, so not a bad run.  

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11 minutes ago, Frugal Git said:

No need for me to write more. The comments section on that article is utterly magnificent. I've never seen that level of vitriol for them outside of here.

That vilification of BTL is going totally mainstream has made my weekend!

'Hill has three rental properties in south-west London, but says landlords are “getting a bashing” from the government’s changes to the tax regime, accusing it of ruining the retirement plans of thousands of people. An estate agent himself, he has let out a flat and two houses in Clapham for the past 10 years, which earn him an annual rental income of £40,813 after service charges and letting fees. The mortgages cost him £13,770, leaving him with a profit of £27,042. Currently he is liable for 40% tax on this, so the bill is £10,816.'

There are no changes to the tax system.

The rules on personal rental income is being aligned to the same rules that would, if I borrowed 200K to buy shares, prevent me from discounting the interest.

He's an individual. He does not have a profit; only companies trade. He has an income. Any income you receive as an person will be subject to income tax. Its that fcking simple. Why he, the other LLs and the banks could not grasp this Ill never know.

Still look on the bright side, he'll be earning so littel from being an EA that his eanred income will fall.

Hes fcked. He should have sold a year ago.

He will now struggle to sell and hes going to get hit by much higher IRs for all those IO loans.

 

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27 minutes ago, Bland Unsight said:

There's something cool going on here.

They're also closing off their only available escape route, which is to sell to a greater fool investor at a high enough price to clear their mortgages and tax bills. The more the property118 bunch get in the press saying how terrible BTL is now, the more people who were thinking of getting into BTL will have second thoughts and decide to steer clear.

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42 minutes ago, Bland Unsight said:

There were a bunch of posters (and Phil321 was amongst them) who argued that the best way to convert somebody who was on the fence to actively supporting Section 24 was to expose them to the attitudes and beliefs of the Property 118 posters.

I must admit that even I have been surprised at the amount of hate that has been revealed for the BTL brigade, as evidenced by this article (OK - Guardianistas), but even in the Mail and Torygraph comment sections. This goes way beyond the dirty (3) dozen. Maybe the penny is going to drop soon for the 118ers, when they realise that 1. the S24 consquences were entirely intended and 2. that, politically, they are kryptonite. I suspect even the Tories are surprised by just how popular this bit of landlord bashing has been and hopefully we'll see more of it soon (getting rid of the last 20% tax relief, for a start).

Edited by mattyboy1973

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6 minutes ago, mattyboy1973 said:

I must admit that even I have been surprised at the amount of hate that has been revealed for the BTL brigade, as evidenced by this article (OK - Guardianistas), but even in the Mail and Torygraph comment sections. This goes way beyond the dirty (3) dozen. Maybe the penny is going to drop soon for the 118ers, when they realise that 1. the S24 consquences were entirely intended and 2. that, politically, they are kryptonite. I suspect even the Tories are surprised by just how popular this bit of landlord bashing has been and hopefully we'll see more of it soon (getting rid of the last 20% tax relief, for a start).

Why?

All popular upsurges and revolutions normally kick off with hanging the LLs.

 

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8 minutes ago, mattyboy1973 said:

I must admit that even I have been surprised at the amount of hate that has been revealed for the BTL brigade, as evidenced by this article (OK - Guardianistas), but even in the Mail and Torygraph comment sections. This goes way beyond the dirty (3) dozen. Maybe the penny is going to drop soon for the 118ers, when they realise that 1. the S24 consquences were entirely intended and 2. that, politically, they are kryptonite. I suspect even the Tories are surprised by just how popular this bit of landlord bashing has been and hopefully we'll see more of it soon (getting rid of the last 20% tax relief, for a start).

Popular policies have been benefit cap - which has not been low or enforced enough.

And anti BTL.

 

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It's beautiful isn't it.

Imagine all the people reading those comments who might have been thinking of getting into BTL, realising that it might be better to invest in something that doesn't come with the scumbag parasite label.

It is funny the way they come up with things like "Jim earns £25k from his day job, but he makes an extra £25k on top of that for the work he does signing BTL mortgage agreements. After the tax changes, he'll only be getting £23k more than you probably earn" and expect sympathy.

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That comments section would be an absolutely joyous read if the whole sorry mess wasn't so socially destructive. They are getting an absolute drubbing, and rightly so. 

You might need to revise that 36 figure a little, Busta. Looks a bit more like everyone except you and your goons to me.

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+ A good chunk of older people who work / worked for a living and own a house (or not) and have savings (or not).

They may see Borrow to Leach parasites as f*cking with their cubs future. The cubs they bought up and put a lot of effort into bringing up now have to pay for someone else mortgage, the fruits of 18 or so years of parenthood.

Edited by Arpeggio

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5 minutes ago, Lavalas said:

You might need to revise that 36 figure a little, Busta. Looks a bit more like everyone except you and your goons to me.

36,000,000 by the look of it

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18 minutes ago, mattyboy1973 said:

I must admit that even I have been surprised at the amount of hate that has been revealed for the BTL brigade, as evidenced by this article (OK - Guardianistas), but even in the Mail and Torygraph comment sections. This goes way beyond the dirty (3) dozen. Maybe the penny is going to drop soon for the 118ers, when they realise that 1. the S24 consquences were entirely intended and 2. that, politically, they are kryptonite. I suspect even the Tories are surprised by just how popular this bit of landlord bashing has been and hopefully we'll see more of it soon (getting rid of the last 20% tax relief, for a start).

I keep an open mind as to which Poverty Later posters genuinely believed the nonsense they put about regarding whether or not the attitudes they encountered in comments sections were the work of HPC posters and only HPC posters.

No doubt we were there; after all, winding up the Poverty Later goons is fun. However, there are also thousands of people (probably millions) who despise BTL and have never heard of the housepricecrash forum.

158y85.gif

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Blimey those guardian comments are coming thick and fast. I can't keep up with them on my phone. Might have to kick the daughter off my PC to read faster B)

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