Farage shows his true colours

[ccc]

9 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

You think he really wanted Brexit?  Why do you think he was so eager to concede on the night?  He would have been happier if it was 52% Remain and then he could go back to his Brussels pulpit to bang on about how terrible the EU was.

Yes I fully believe he wanted it.

With all the nonsense and propaganda in the media he was no doubt just surprised at the result as were many

[EUBanana]

Well, he's right.  There are a lot of low grade people in UKIP who have been scheming.  Hence all the knives in his back.

Neil Hamilton is /definitely/ low grade.  

He's also right about his salary, he must have taken a massive hit to his lifetime earnings by being the leader of UKIP.  That's not to say he's broke, obviously, but if money was what he was after he wouldn't have done what he did with his life.

Whenever he opens his mouth the entire media establishment jumps down his throat.  Usually though he's right.  Out of all our politicians he's been the most correct for decades now.  That Guardian article is merely a statement of facts, like most of his stuff.

[long time lurking]

1 hour ago, ccc said:

Very good point. I heard from a few folk at my previous work of how much they hated Trump. Not one had actually listened to anything he had actually said. Well apart from his secret recording about burds in the back of some bus to another bloke 10 years ago. Says it all.

That` very true ,and to some extent i think this is why the referendum went off script as i really think a lot of the leave voters actually listen what the likes of Farage said( yes they are politicians playing the game) then seen the twisted reporting of those speeches ..that`s when the smoke cleared and they seen the mirrors , they did not like what they saw 

IMO the tribal labour vote have also had the same awakening

[bear.getting.old]

4 hours ago, knock out johnny said:

I've heard your argument before many times before "He's going to bring down the system from the inside" what a load of nonsense

And as far as you regarding him the greatest most influential politican of the last 100 years  - I have repeated it so people can see how laughable that statement is

You don't care if you lose and are proud to have voted UKIP for the greater good (such altruism) - fine, that's your call. I have no wish to lose anything and if need be will jump ship to sunnier climes if Brexit fcks things up too much over here

I'll make it clearer. I won't be losing anything in the UK if we get a real (non watered down) brexit where we do not pay any money for access to the single market and don't take EU immigration quotas. It will be the EU that will loose not us, which means I loose since I have a house in the EU. But as I say, the UK and a bright future protecting its own and leaving the dirty sinking ship of the EU now before it takes us down with it is more important than my house value and the currency.

You obviously like my praise of Nigel Farage so I will repeat it again - he is the greatest, most influential politican of the last 100 years. Thats not just my opinion - thats a fact.

[Blod]

7 hours ago, ccc said:

Very good point. I heard from a few folk at my previous work of how much they hated Trump. Not one had actually listened to anything he had actually said. Well apart from his secret recording about burds in the back of some bus to another bloke 10 years ago. Says it all.

It's always the most outraged that are also the least accurately informed. In the past people who didn't follow the news would have just been ambivalent, now facebook and social media can mould their minds. This change has occurred in the last few years as more and more are kept sedated by the little blue pill, facebook.

[macfarlan]

20 hours ago, ccc said:

He spent his entire political career trying to do something that would put him out of a job. 

He may be full of it like the rest of politicians - but this alone puts him above 99% of them.

Edited December 11, 2016 by macfarlan
Can't blummen respond. Stoopid phone...

[Byron]

12 hours ago, bear.getting.old said:

I've heard this arguement made many times before and like those others, you completely miss the point. To change the EU and/or to campaign against it he needed to become an MEP to do so. Hes a city person who had a real job, that he could go back to once the EU collapses or the UK exits. Unlike the rest of the EU vested interests all on the gravy train, he was not trying to maintain the status quo to suit his own. He's one of the most influential, greatest politicians of the last 100 years. I'm proud to have voted for UKIP and vote leave and look forward to the UK leaving (after a HPC!) I have a house in the EU, I stand to loose, but I don't care, the UK is more important than my own personal gain.

PLUS ONE

[simon99]

Oh well, ended up going out last night and thought I'd check back to see if those who criticize could muster up anything of any substance. All we've had so far is an accusation of lying to the British people which has been watered down to "misleading", and still no quote or explanation as to what he said was misleading, oh and a bit of name calling. Another poor showing from the haters so far.

[Byron]

14 hours ago, Lovely Rum said:

he is excellent if you're into populist nonsense

Snowflake spout. People like him because they agree with him.....................very hard for SJW's to accept.

12 hours ago, knock out johnny said:

I've heard your argument before many times before "He's going to bring down the system from the inside" what a load of nonsense

And as far as you regarding him the greatest most influential politican of the last 100 years  - I have repeated it so people can see how laughable that statement is

You don't care if you lose and are proud to have voted UKIP for the greater good (such altruism) - fine, that's your call. I have no wish to lose anything and if need be will jump ship to sunnier climes if Brexit fcks things up too much over here

Don't forget to pay up your tea fund before you go,

Bye

Edited December 11, 2016 by Byron

[simon99]

13 hours ago, Byron said:

Simon,

To the Middle class liberals, warning about is it as good as threatening.

The whole point about the King's Clothes story is that the elites were all saying what a nice suit of clothes the King was wearing because only intelligent people could see them.

Sort of like Brexit really, only the intelligent people can see why we should remain.

Oh by the way, Populist means ............well.............er.........popular.

Yep, anyone with a balanced view can see the difference. The haters on the left just see and hear what they want.

[simon99]

18 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

When you say it's 'part of the EU project', it's important to distinguish which part otherwise you risk saying something which is false or misleading.  Any member state of the EU is 'part of the EU project' by definition but it doesn't mean that everything that happens is the fault of the EU.

 

Even if Farage blamed who you said he did (which I don't see any evidence for so far), at best I think would be extremely tenuous to accuse him of lying to the British public. The fact that you've admitted we wouldn't be at the Council if we weren't in the EU shows that it is indeed part of the EU. But we wouldn't want to risk saying something which is false or misleading would we?

[thecrashingisles]

1 hour ago, simon99 said:

Even if Farage blamed who you said he did (which I don't see any evidence for so far), at best I think would be extremely tenuous to accuse him of lying to the British public. The fact that you've admitted we wouldn't be at the Council if we weren't in the EU shows that it is indeed part of the EU. But we wouldn't want to risk saying something which is false or misleading would we?

By that standard Farage is more 'part of the EU' than the vast majority of British politicians since his platform and salary come only from the EU, as opposed to the Council of Ministers which is simply the title given to meetings between the ministers of the governments of the member states.

[long time lurking]

14 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

By that standard Farage is more 'part of the EU' than the vast majority of British politicians since his platform and salary come only from the EU, as opposed to the Council of Ministers which is simply the title given to meetings between the ministers of the governments of the member states.

And black is white 

[thecrashingisles]

Just now, long time lurking said:

And black is white 

It wasn't my argument. 

[simon99]

20 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

By that standard Farage is more 'part of the EU' than the vast majority of British politicians since his platform and salary come only from the EU, as opposed to the Council of Ministers which is simply the title given to meetings between the ministers of the governments of the member states.

Pretty weak argument, we all know why he became an MEP. Quick reminder - We're still waiting for the quote which is a lie and explanation as to why. Not sure why it's taking so long.

[Lovely Rum]

16 hours ago, long time lurking said:

Nope he did not he said there was a risk of violence on the streets   a massive difference to actually threatening ...i`m happy for you to prove me wrong but i will not be holding my breath ...and no tabliod`s take on it will be accepted as proof 

you're just being silly now

breaking down words into their etymological composition to fit your paradigm

 

[simon99]

23 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

By that standard Farage is more 'part of the EU' than the vast majority of British politicians since his platform and salary come only from the EU, as opposed to the Council of Ministers which is simply the title given to meetings between the ministers of the governments of the member states.

Yes, a Council for EU member states, as you've already admitted.

[thecrashingisles]

5 minutes ago, simon99 said:

Yes, a Council for EU member states, as you've already admitted.

'Admitted'?  There's nothing to admit.  It's basic knowledge that anyone who's politically aware enough to have an opinion on the EU should know.

[thecrashingisles]

7 minutes ago, simon99 said:

Pretty weak argument, we all know why he became an MEP. Quick reminder - We're still waiting for the quote which is a lie and explanation as to why. Not sure why it's taking so long.

The most obvious lie is his statement, and I quote, "Even if I'd attended every meeting there's nothing I could have done to help."  What this shows is that he doesn't understand the job of a parliamentarian.  If he thought that anglers weren't getting enough consideration it was his job to raise the issue.  It's no use complaining that other people aren't thinking about it if he doesn't turn up to the meetings.  He then says that the proposal was put forward by a bureaucrat that we can't vote for or remove, ignoring the fact that the said bureaucrat has no power to get his proposal accepted - this was done through the Council which is the democratic voice of the governments of EU member states.

[simon99]

15 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

The most obvious lie is his statement, and I quote, "Even if I'd attended every meeting there's nothing I could have done to help."  What this shows is that he doesn't understand the job of a parliamentarian.  If he thought that anglers weren't getting enough consideration it was his job to raise the issue.  It's no use complaining that other people aren't thinking about it if he doesn't turn up to the meetings.  He then says that the proposal was put forward by a bureaucrat that we can't vote for or remove, ignoring the fact that the said bureaucrat has no power to get his proposal accepted - this was done through the Council which is the democratic voice of the governments of EU member states.

I thought you said the lie was to do with blaming the EU? What determines which topics are up for debate then, did he have the power to put this forward? I don't know how all of this works by the way, I am looking for evidence to back up the comments that's all.

[thecrashingisles]

1 minute ago, simon99 said:

I thought you said the lie was to do with blaming the EU? What determines which topics are up for debate then, did he have the power to put this forward? I don't know how all of this works by the way, I am looking for evidence to back up the comments that's all.

I was just quoting an article written by someone who seems to know what he's talking about on the subject of sea bass.  From the video I think it's pretty clear that Farage was both going off topic and trying to blame the wrong target, i.e. a bureaucrat who proposed, while ignoring the role of the national governments which decide or the parliament which scrutinises.

As Marine Le Pen said about someone else, 'il a le verbe haut et la main molle' - he talks a good game but doesn't back it up.  All Farage does is point the finger at whichever bogeyman suits his agenda of trying to bring down the whole system.

[simon99]

24 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

'Admitted'?  There's nothing to admit.  It's basic knowledge that anyone who's politically aware enough to have an opinion on the EU should know.

But didn't you start out by saying he "He blamed the European Commission for a decision which wasn't theirs", where did he say that? All I can see is he said it was proposed by a bureaucrat and nodded through the Council of Ministers, which is what happened isn't it?

[simon99]

3 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

I was just quoting an article written by someone who seems to know what he's talking about on the subject of sea bass.  From the video I think it's pretty clear that Farage was both going off topic and trying to blame the wrong target, i.e. a bureaucrat who proposed, while ignoring the role of the national governments which decide or the parliament which scrutinises.

As Marine Le Pen said about someone else, 'il a le verbe haut et la main molle' - he talks a good game but doesn't back it up.  All Farage does is point the finger at whichever bogeyman suits his agenda of trying to bring down the whole system.

Well without knowing how the debates are structured how can you say he's lying about it? Where did he ignore the role of Council? He said it was nodded through.

[thecrashingisles]

1 minute ago, simon99 said:

But didn't you start out by saying he "He blamed the European Commission for a decision which wasn't theirs", where did he say that? All I can see is he said it was proposed by a bureaucrat and nodded through the Council of Ministers, which is what happened isn't it?

'Nodded through' means it was the national governments which had the authority to accept or reject the proposal.  If they accepted it you have to blame them.

[simon99]

1 minute ago, thecrashingisles said:

'Nodded through' means it was the national governments which had the authority to accept or reject the proposal.  If they accepted it you have to blame them.

Ok, well isn't that what he was doing?  So the sum total of this "lie" is whether he could have done anything about it or not? which I don't think either of us know enough about it to say one way or the other.