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JoeDavola

Promotion / Pay Grades / Employment Law

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Asking on behalf of a friend as I know there's a wide range of knowledge here.

He works as an engineer for a public sector organization, being public sector there are set pay grades. In the department where he works, some of the engineers have been given a higher pay grades over the years with quite flimsy justification; you basically have a situation where some engineers who are as good if not better are on a lower pay grade than those doing the same job.

Recently he found out that someone who does literally the exact same job as him has been promoted but told to keep quiet about it (dodgy in itself); publicly the word is that there's no scope for movement to that pay bracket, but here's someone doing an identical job who got it.

Does he have any right to complain? To ask for justification as to why the other bloke got the pay re-grading, i.e. what extra things this guy is doing that he's not (there aren't any). Is there a way he can use employment law or any of that malarkey to use the re-grading they gave this guy as justification to being regraded himself?

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1 minute ago, hotairmail said:

Is he female?

Neither he, nor the other bloke, are female.

I doubt the pay raise is enough to justify gender realignment. 

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I don't know the answer, but wanted to say that it is not uncommon in the public sector. I work with a team all doing essentially the same job and we are on three different pay scales. It is solely dependent on when we were each appointed as different rules apparently applied. I'm one of the most qualified but on the middle of the three grades. Someone as equally qualified is on the lowest :huh:

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1 minute ago, One-percent said:

I don't know the answer, but wanted to say that it is not uncommon in the public sector. I work with a team all doing essentially the same job and we are on three different pay scales. It is solely dependent on when we were each appointed as different rules apparently applied. I'm one of the most qualified but on the middle of the three grades. Someone as equally qualified is on the lowest :huh:

Yeah I get the feeling it's the same here. It would be frustrating if you saw less qualified less hard working people than you earning more for doing the same job not as well; in the private sector it's a case of 'that's life' but in the public sector with it's unions and whatnot I had wondered if it was easier to argue about it. Maybe not.

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Just now, JoeDavola said:

Yeah I get the feeling it's the same here. It would be frustrating if you saw less qualified less hard working people than you earning more for doing the same job not as well; in the private sector it's a case of 'that's life' but in the public sector with it's unions and whatnot I had wondered if it was easier to argue about it. Maybe not.

Nope.  I often look,at others at work and think 'what exactly is it that you do'?  

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5 minutes ago, One-percent said:

Nope.  I often look,at others at work and think 'what exactly is it that you do'?  

Ha! Been there; particularly irksome when they're getting paid considerably more than you!

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Just now, JoeDavola said:

Ha! Been there; particularly irksome when they're getting paid considerably more than you!

...and have power over how you do your job...feckers 

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10 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

Yeah I get the feeling it's the same here. It would be frustrating if you saw less qualified less hard working people than you earning more for doing the same job not as well; in the private sector it's a case of 'that's life' but in the public sector with it's unions and whatnot I had wondered if it was easier to argue about it. Maybe not.

There is not much he can do other than resign and claim constructive dismissal. What you describe are grounds (but fairly thin), it's awful, but happens everywhere. My work started the process of objectively regrading and adjusting the salaries of every employee, but gave up 2/3rds of the way through (before anything had been done) because there's so much disparity in Ts&Cs, salary and accountabilities across the organisation. I guess anywhere that's grown by acquisition has the same issue.

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5 minutes ago, frozen_out said:

There is not much he can do other than resign and claim constructive dismissal. What you describe are grounds (but fairly thin), it's awful, but happens everywhere. My work started the process of objectively regrading and adjusting the salaries of every employee, but gave up 2/3rds of the way through (before anything had been done) because there's so much disparity in Ts&Cs, salary and accountabilities across the organisation. I guess anywhere that's grown by acquisition has the same issue.

What they do in the public sector from my personal experience is to introduce a new contract and then bully/bribe individuals into signing it.  I would guess though that management are happy with the scenario from the op as for some employees they will be getting cheap labour 

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Not sure about the pay on qualification thing that goes on in he public sector.

A Degree in sociology is not the same as a degree in Maths.

And thats ignoring the whole produtivity and performance thing.

Maybe they should just go for fixed bands for everyone.

And try sacking people.

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17 hours ago, JoeDavola said:

Ha! Been there; particularly irksome when they're getting paid considerably more than you!

Always the case. Some people blagged better conditions, and turn out to be loafers. At a "pub meeting" after work one of my colleagues referred to my teamleader as Bullshitting Brian. I referred to his teamleader as Half-Day Hammond. We could all see they either weren't up to the job of leading, or didn't give a shit. This was a private company.-_-

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Or do what I think they do in the armed forces, pay is based on job function and rank. Googled it https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/514120/20160330_NEM-Pay16_Booklet_Rev_300316.pdf. Seems there have been some changes since I attended college with some RAF aircrew leavers in the late 70s. I couldn't follow the logic where crew members of the same aircraft were all flight commanders despite all having different jobs.

 

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The organisation will almost certainly have a formal policy on regrading. He should get a copy and read it. I would not recommend complaining that the other guy has been unfairly put on too high a grade, it's much better to argue that the higher grade is the right grade for both of them. His narrative should therefore be that the other guy has been justifiably regraded. This comes across in a much more positive way and does not make an enemy of the other fella. Personally I'd apply for a regrade, and then maybe have a quiet word with a friendly HR bod (or if there aren't any of those a "without prejudice" conversation with an unfriendly one) about what's really going on.

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On 12/8/2016 at 10:50 PM, One-percent said:

it is not uncommon in the public sector.

I've known civil servants who were tapped on the shoulder and told they'd been promoted...no boarding panel or anything. Teachers and doctors also rise through the pay spine by dint of years of service...a pay increase for not having died.

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On 12/9/2016 at 6:43 AM, spyguy said:

thats ignoring the whole produtivity and performance thing.

Exactly. Qualifications are an almost irrelevant part of the story. Some people collect qualifications and yet are useless. Rate of work varies hugely, too.

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28 minutes ago, Millaise said:

Exactly. Qualifications are an almost irrelevant part of the story. Some people collect qualifications and yet are useless. Rate of work varies hugely, too.

Ivan Illich gives a good analysis of this

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