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spyguy

Net immigration to UK rises to record level of 335,000 Jun 16

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Tallies with my experience in the kids park over summer.

And my trip to Tesco last night - more than 60% of the shoppers were speaking one EE language or another. They were not 'DRs and Engineers''

Again, as I stated on the Brexit thread - this is why Brexit happened.

My solution:

Keep FOM.

Remove HB + tax credits for non UK nationals.

Charge 6k/kid school fees.

The UK is running a 6% budget deficit.

I think we can safely say that immigrants do not contribute to the economy. Or at least, where you have a gold plated tax credit systems.

Gordon Brown, you useless, stupid tnuc.

 

 

 

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Well if immigration was indeed the answer to our budget deficit problems the EU open border policy   has co-incided with a rise in publc debt from 40 to 90% of GDP.

Edited by crashmonitor

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4 minutes ago, winkie said:

Some people benefit more than others.....the big companies that sell products and services gain, they have more customers. ;)

Not really big companies, bar hotel and food chains.

Loads of made-up-jobs, supported by tax credits.

Its insane. I scan the towns I monitor and who works in the new businesses - nail bars, takeaway delviery, hairdressers, etc etc.

Its insane. Loads of part-time, low paying jobs. Each with a £1k/month cash sub = public services - schools @ 6K/head.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Tallies with my experience in the kids park over summer.

And my trip to Tesco last night - more than 60% of the shoppers were speaking one EE language or another. They were not 'DRs and Engineers''

Again, as I stated on the Brexit thread - this is why Brexit happened.

My solution:

Keep FOM.

Remove HB + tax credits for non UK nationals.

Charge 6k/kid school fees.

The UK is running a 6% budget deficit.

I think we can safely say that immigrants do not contribute to the economy. Or at least, where you have a gold plated tax credit systems.

Gordon Brown, you useless, stupid tnuc.

 

 

 

Very true

6 minutes ago, crashmonitor said:

Well if immigration was indeed the answer to our budget deficit problems the EU open border policy   has co-incided with a rise in publc debt from 40 to 90% of GDP.

Good point

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6 minutes ago, spyguy said:

 

Loads of made-up-jobs, supported by tax credits.

............... delivery,

 

 

 

Got to be in it to win it, the brave new economy....................

 

no-your-eyes-do-not-deceive-you---that-r

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I suppose David 'tens of thousands' Cameron is unavailable for comment. I voted Remain but would freely agree that this level of immigration is just plain ludicrous.

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8 minutes ago, Orsino said:

I suppose David 'tens of thousands' Cameron is unavailable for comment. I voted Remain but would freely agree that this level of immigration is just plain ludicrous.

If you voted Remain, you voted for mass and uncontrolled immigration, the EU army and ever-closer union.  You have no right to complain about immigration whatsoever.  You voted for FOM. 

"Oh, but.....but...I wanted to Remain but Dave would've done some deals....!"

:rolleyes:

Enjoy your mass immigration.  A sick part of me hopes the UK keeps FOM and keeps the whole benefits bandwagon going....

...and buy shares in popcorn.

 

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Oh FFS, how can anyone in their right mind not regard this as a massive disaster and a sign of complete and utter lack of governmental resposnisbility towards the country they're supposed to be governing? We need fewer people, not more, if we want meaningful improvements in quality of life, but that doesn't let you kick the can down the road when it comes to dealing with the more in-your-face issues. Roll on more traffic jams, higher priced housing, more building of obnoxious sh1te to (partially) deal with it, generally a less pleasant country to live in. Letting this happen should be criminal.

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29 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Tallies with my experience in the kids park over summer.

And my trip to Tesco last night - more than 60% of the shoppers were speaking one EE language or another. They were not 'DRs and Engineers''

Again, as I stated on the Brexit thread - this is why Brexit happened.

My solution:

Keep FOM.

Remove HB + tax credits for non UK nationals.

Charge 6k/kid school fees.

The UK is running a 6% budget deficit.

I think we can safely say that immigrants do not contribute to the economy. Or at least, where you have a gold plated tax credit systems.

Gordon Brown, you useless, stupid tnuc.

 

 

 

I agree Tax credit and free public services(NHS & Schools) are actually destroying the economy. 

On your 6k per head. If I run some numbers for 1.5 million Non UK national tax credits for a year is 108 billion(6k X 1.5 m X 12 months). Isn't the cost govt put on UK leaving EU?

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Tax Credits is a total red herring. Pensions! Thats where all the bloody money goes. 

Immigration is clearly too high, but at the same time I don't think its a monetary issue, its more cultural and overcrowding that is the real problem. 

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3 minutes ago, Pieman Pieface said:

Tax Credits is a total red herring. Pensions! Thats where all the bloody money goes. 

Immigration is clearly too high, but at the same time I don't think its a monetary issue, its more cultural and overcrowding that is the real problem. 

The monetary part is a big problem but those other two are bigger ones, particularly the overcrowding (other than to those people who seem to think "it's not overcrowded as long as you can physically jam in more"). Mind you my idea of "overcrowded" is "on average has a higher population density than Cumbria", or "need to build motorways in order to handle moving that number of people around."

Edited by Riedquat

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2 minutes ago, Pieman Pieface said:

Tax Credits is a total red herring. Pensions! Thats where all the bloody money goes. 

Immigration is clearly too high, but at the same time I don't think its a monetary issue, its more cultural and overcrowding that is the real problem. 

Your joking?

Or you're stupid?

2 adults, both working 16h (officially) 40h (cash in hand), 2 kids, will pull in about 1k tax credits month.

Get HB too - so another 400/month

2 kids at school - 6k/head.

A rought and ready total of ~26k/year.

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I'm not joking, more is spent on pensions than almost all the other types of benefits put together. If all the old people died we'd be fine. Migrants cost us about £5 billion a year in tax credits apparently.. vs £100bn in pensions. Obviously that number is far too high and I'm not happy about it, but its not breaking the bank or making the difference to the economy. 

The real problem with immigration is the over crowding as I said, its all focussed into a few small areas. Services can't cope, culturally there is a huge degree of 'white flight' and places like London are culturally changing forever. 

 

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Didn't the socialisation of bank losses onto the taxpayer's balance sheet from 2008 lead to the major part of the UK's debt to GDP rise? And isn't Trump planning to repeal bank regulation and start the whole hoopla of socialism for the rich off again in earnest. Funny how short memories are

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16 minutes ago, Pieman Pieface said:

Tax Credits is a total red herring. Pensions! Thats where all the bloody money goes. 

Immigration is clearly too high, but at the same time I don't think its a monetary issue, its more cultural and overcrowding that is the real problem. 

Immigrants do retire too, so I presume we are accruing off balance sheet liabilities in that regard. Unfortunately the only assessment of whether immigration is positive to the Exchequer is struck on a present day basis. Increasing the members of a Ponzi is increasing the eventual cataclysmic bust.

Access levels jobs do not pay for full life care under our generous welfare state. And indeed some of these jobs may be deplacement of the indigenous populace regarding work.

Edited by crashmonitor

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4 minutes ago, crashmonitor said:

Immigrants do retire too, so I presume we are accruing off balance sheet liabilities in that regard. Unfortunately the only assessment of whether immigration is positive to the Exchequer is struck on a present day basis. Increasing the members of a Ponzi is increasing the eventual cataclysmic bust.

Access levels jobs do not pay for full life care under our generous welfare state. And indeed some of these jobs may be deplacement of the indigenous populace regarding work.

Well, yes.

Most people who come up with immigration as the solution to demographic issues would be well advised to sing 'There was an Old Lady who swallowed a fly'.

Short term contracts. Yep. Great. You'll attacrt people who come to do a job and then leave.

Immigration. Nope. Any country with a welfare state will just attract dossers.

 

 

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Reckon the Govt see mass immigration as the lesser political risk of two unpalatable options. There is so much index-linked obligations that to share them out among the current workforce is too much for them to bear. Therefore, the action taken has simply been to increase the number of backs to share the load.

I know people whose political wish list includes- raising rates, stopping QE, pumping house prices, protecting pensions without limit, cutting the deficit to zero A.S.A.P. and cutting immigration severely. I get the impression that they have not really thought through the implications for the current workforce if they got their wish list. Govt knows the impossibility of it so we get QE and shed loads of new people every year. Reckon Brexit won't do much to alter immigration levels at all, irrespective of what the rhetoric is, in the short-medium term.

We already see the effects of the current HPI rentierism-centric economy in terms of declining productivity/capita. It's obvious that destroying people's chances to attain financial independence is likely to be detrimental to their motivation and productivity.

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"Viscount Hailsham (Con)

My Lords, in the context of immigration, may I remind my noble friend of the needs of the agricultural and horticultural industries in constituencies such as my former one? They are dependent on labour from abroad, most notably from eastern Europe, and if they are denied that resource they will face very considerable problems."

This was a statement in Lords just yesterday, gives away the govt's direction on immigration.
 

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11 minutes ago, Pieman Pieface said:

I'm not joking, more is spent on pensions than almost all the other types of benefits put together. If all the old people died we'd be fine. Migrants cost us about £5 billion a year in tax credits apparently.. vs £100bn in pensions. Obviously that number is far too high and I'm not happy about it, but its not breaking the bank or making the difference to the economy. 

The real problem with immigration is the over crowding as I said, its all focussed into a few small areas. Services can't cope, culturally there is a huge degree of 'white flight' and places like London are culturally changing forever. 

 

The tax credit bill is ~$30bln. Bit higher than Gorddies working figure of £200M.

As it goes to the lower paid, most EE are claiming it. Id guess the EE take is around $10bln.

Chuck in housing benefit. A lot too.

Chuck in schools - 6k/head.

With the UK free services, a singel person would need to be earning ~35k/year to make a net contribution.

A family, 2 adults, 2 kids, would need to earn ~60k.

 

 

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1 minute ago, hi5lo5 said:

"Viscount Hailsham (Con)

My Lords, in the context of immigration, may I remind my noble friend of the needs of the agricultural and horticultural industries in constituencies such as my former one? They are dependent on labour from abroad, most notably from eastern Europe, and if they are denied that resource they will face very considerable problems."

This was a statement in Lords just yesterday, gives away the govt's direction on immigration.
 

How are they hiring these people legally though? There is no way they are paying their workers a living wage, so are we talking illegal immigrants, cash under the table stuff? Its impossible to do agriculture in this country and pay people decent money.

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1 minute ago, thecrashingisles said:

Still much more non-EU than EU immigration.  EU freedom of movement is a side show.

Most Non EU migrants are not entitled to tax credits or no recourse to public funds. However the NHS and schools are free for the migrants and thier family. Also to be noted that the new migrants from non EU nations including students  have to pay a NHS surcharge at the time of applying for visa though the amouny is negligible £200 per year for adults and £150 for students.

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