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Oh dear Labour


spyguy
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Some politicians are only cut out for jumping up and down in opposition and to most folks it blatantly obvious even before they get their hands on power.

Once they get into power it can very quickly become farcical. Ms Sturgeon has entered that territory, whilst Jezzer is still in the relative safety of opposition.

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9 hours ago, ChewingGrass said:

Some politicians are only cut out for jumping up and down in opposition and to most folks it blatantly obvious even before they get their hands on power.

Once they get into power it can very quickly become farcical. Ms Sturgeon has entered that territory, whilst Jezzer is still in the relative safety of opposition.

Brown was the best/worrst example of this.

When he became PM he'd fcked up the party, he spent all the money and more.

 

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12 hours ago, ChewingGrass said:

Some politicians are only cut out for jumping up and down in opposition and to most folks it blatantly obvious even before they get their hands on power.

Once they get into power it can very quickly become farcical. Ms Sturgeon has entered that territory, whilst Jezzer is still in the relative safety of opposition.

Corbyn's making enough of a hash of that that the relative safety of it isn't enough for him. Whether you agree with their policies or not a government needs a decent opposition, and Labour is failing to be that. He's probably the first leader who'll stand a chance of being remembered for being a drag on the country for not even being a vaguely decent opposition.

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  • 9 months later...

Labour Policy Forum has suddenly become very active.  I realise that policy submissions are not the same as policies, but some of them are completely bonkers:

Balanced Admissions:  Universities must recruit at least half their new intake from students predicted to get less than CCC but who demonstrate good critical thinking and passion.

State control of the media:  News media should be subject to scrutiny by an independent panel of experts who can assess neutrality of news reporting.  News organisations found to have acted outside of acceptable ranges of tolerance should be sanctioned.

5% tax on all financial transactions.

And countless 'stop Brexit because I disagree with it' submissions.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On ‎24‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 11:13 AM, Will! said:

Labour Policy Forum has suddenly become very active.  I realise that policy submissions are not the same as policies, but some of them are completely bonkers:

Balanced Admissions:  Universities must recruit at least half their new intake from students predicted to get less than CCC but who demonstrate good critical thinking and passion.

State control of the media:  News media should be subject to scrutiny by an independent panel of experts who can assess neutrality of news reporting.  News organisations found to have acted outside of acceptable ranges of tolerance should be sanctioned.

5% tax on all financial transactions.

And countless 'stop Brexit because I disagree with it' submissions.

This is really interesting. I didn't know the labour party did that - do you have to be a party member to submit an idea or could it be anyone? The conservative party seems to require that you join a local group and go to meetings if you want to suggest policies. I bet that generates a much more boring set of suggestions.

The three submissions you link to are completely detached from reality. I particularly like the idea of, say, medicine degrees having to fill half their places with people who just managed a D in Biology. But it's a real mixed bag. 

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2 hours ago, Still Dews said:

This is really interesting. I didn't know the labour party did that - do you have to be a party member to submit an idea or could it be anyone?

Anyone can submit an idea, there's no need to be a member of the Labour party.

https://www.policyforum.labour.org.uk/account/register-choose

Many of the more specific and constructive submissions seem to get a response, regardless of whether they're made by party members or not.

This is my new favourite submission:

Big landlords v little landlords:  A Labour party member arguing that BTL landlords are the "little guys" who deserve our sympathy.

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On ‎10‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 1:03 PM, Will! said:

 

This is my new favourite submission:

Big landlords v little landlords:  A Labour party member arguing that BTL landlords are the "little guys" who deserve our sympathy.

Yes a surprising point of view for a labour supporter - or maybe not as many people must have formed their views in the period when labour were in government encouraging people to put money in property. He's probably representative of quite a lot of voters and it illustrates the problem. 

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  • 1 year later...
  • 8 months later...
  • 1 month later...
On 30/12/2016 at 08:52, spyguy said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38459140

'He said Labour "accepts and respects" the referendum result, adding: "We won't be blocking our leaving the European Union, but we won't stand by.'

Six months its took him to say that. Dummy.

'"I've spent over 40 years in politics campaigning for a better way of doing things, standing up for people, taking on the establishment, and opposing decisions that would make us worse off.'

No hes not. Hes spent 40 years being a bell end, jumping from one trendy cause to another.

Jezza's problem is that the public sector wrokers are the establishment for most people.

'Mr Corbyn said the UK's political system was "letting down the people of this country", urging action on social care, homelessness, job security and education.'

His XMas talk on homelessness has ******.

Most people assume homelessness with dossers drinking.

If hed said social housing for families then he'd be on a winner. He didn't.

Will Labour survive Jezza?

Thatchers dead. Not out of office, dead. Thtas a big bogeywoman gone for a large percentage of people who've not voted Con.

If 20% of Labours tribal votes go to UKIP and another 10% to the Cons then they are dead.

 

Probably not.

Memories of starting this thread.

Cons neutralised ukip by going for a clear brexit message.

Labour got dafter n dafter.

Failed to win ge2017.

Blew up ge2019.

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Is this the end for Labour? written by a "firefighter, trade union activist, pro-Brexit campaigner and 'Blue Labour' thinker".

I don't know what a "'Blue Labour' thinker" is, but I think this guy makes some valid points.

Quote

So where now? If Labour is to again be the party of the working-class — and there must now be serious doubts that it ever will — it must undergo radical surgery.  It must somehow rediscover the spirit of the early Labour tradition that spoke to workers’ patriotic and communitarian instincts, and offered them a natural home.

 

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  • 4 months later...
On 17/12/2019 at 19:39, Will! said:

Is this the end for Labour? written by a "firefighter, trade union activist, pro-Brexit campaigner and 'Blue Labour' thinker".

I don't know what a "'Blue Labour' thinker" is, but I think this guy makes some valid points.

 

For me it sums up the entire problem with our political system. We are forced to have two main parties and therefore forced to have very little nuance in our politics. You pick a side and that's it. Labour lose because they're not liberal enough, Labour lose because they're too liberal. They can't win. The sensible thing to do would be to split and allow voters to vote for the type of politics they want and have a good chance their views will be represented in parliament. Can't do that because FPTP doesn't allow it.

FPTP creates too much division and toxicity and it is no wonder the UK is way, way down the list in voter satisfaction. I think the top 10 countries by voter satisfaction in their politicians are all proportional representation. But Tory voters will never want to change because they know FPTP allows them to win the majority of the time, and Labour are too divided to change it.

So we're stuck. Democracy is broken when it can't change itself. The UK is a broken democracy.

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20 hours ago, dugsbody said:

So we're stuck. Democracy is broken when it can't change itself. The UK is a broken democracy.

And we know what happens next.

"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." - Aristotle

Since democracy can't fix the problems created by democracy, sooner or later people demand a leader who can fix it. Which is why democracy rarely lasts more than a couple of hundred years.

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  • 3 months later...
On 18/04/2020 at 15:30, DarkHorseWaits-NoMore said:

A 'Blue Labour' thinker is... wow. Hmm, a Tory propagandist.

 

 

No.

Blue Labour is the group who used to represent/stand for working Labour members, think blue collar.

 

Typically they come from the collective lot i.e. people who believe in people working and combining as a power base, rather than the loon socialist/communist  moonbeam bs.

Tory MP tells Gary Lineker to offer his mansion for migrants to use after blasting Match of the Day host for 'virtue signalling' over record Channel crossings

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8620297/Tory-MP-tells-Gary-Lineker-offer-mansion-migrants-use.html

 

Wiki:

Anderson, a former coal miner, was a long-time Labour Party member and served as a councillor in the Huthwaite and Brierly ward of Ashfield where he was elected in 2015.[3] Anderson also worked as office manager for the Ashfield Labour MP at the time, Gloria De Piero, having campaigned alongside her for the 2015 and 2017 UK general elections.

 

Comments:

Lee was superb on the show this morning, proper strong Tory attitude the country thought it was voting for, not the Boris the Blair we ended up with. Better find your balls Boris or the back bench will be gunning for you, patience to deliver what people want is running out.

My sister lives in Hucknall the next area to the MP she said he is brilliant,really listens and really tries to do what is best for his constituents.So many she said wish he was their MP hers never answers e mails, puts his own ambitions first.Two MPs from CON party two very different.

 

Hardly a floating voter. Shows how far Labour have abandoned their supporters. And I dont just mean the idiot Corbyn and crew.

Lord Sir Kier is going to have make a stand and say - We no longer want millions of migrants, by they EU or further away, piling into working class communities.

Until Lord Sir Kier - or the the next leader, or the next leader, actually makes a stand for the the interest of their constituents rather than their wishy washy middle class signalling, then Labour will lurch down and down.

The deal on migration is shit for the bottom 40%.

The rich people get a cheap cash in hand cleaner, the bottom 40% get their schools ruined, their health services overwhelmed and their housing costs doubled.

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30 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Comments:

Lee was superb on the show this morning, proper strong Tory attitude the country thought it was voting for, not the Boris the Blair we ended up with. Better find your balls Boris or the back bench will be gunning for you, patience to deliver what people want is running out.

My sister lives in Hucknall the next area to the MP she said he is brilliant,really listens and really tries to do what is best for his constituents.So many she said wish he was their MP hers never answers e mails, puts his own ambitions first.Two MPs from CON party two very different.

 

Hardly a floating voter. Shows how far Labour have abandoned their supporters. And I dont just mean the idiot Corbyn and crew.

Lord Sir Kier is going to have make a stand and say - We no longer want millions of migrants, by they EU or further away, piling into working class communities.

Until Lord Sir Kier - or the the next leader, or the next leader, actually makes a stand for the the interest of their constituents rather than their wishy washy middle class signalling, then Labour will lurch down and down.

The deal on migration is shit for the bottom 40%.

The rich people get a cheap cash in hand cleaner, the bottom 40% get their schools ruined, their health services overwhelmed and their housing costs doubled.

Straight talking Lee Anderson, eh?

The same guy whose private Facebook group is a cesspool of bigotry, islamophobia and anti-semitism?

https://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2020/08/tory-mps-racist-facebook-shame.html

Quote

Tory MP’s Racist Facebook Shame

Politicians enjoy false equivalences, and Ashfield’s new Tory MP Lee Anderson exhumed a particularly stupid one yesterday: talking to the deeply repellant Mike Graham on Murdoch property TalkRADIO earlier, he declared that lead Match of the Day presenter Gary Lineker should invite refugees into his home, because he wants the Government to show compassion to them. This had the usual right-wing suspects cooing in agreement.
 
To no surprise at all, that included the perpetually thirsty Paul Staines and his rabble at the Guido Fawkes blog, who declared “During the election campaign it became obvious that should he win, Ashfield Tory candidate Lee Anderson would be right up there amongst the most plain-talking Tory MPs. … Anderson is now living up to that reputation”.
 
Sadly, though, The Great Guido has failed to do his homework on the less savoury side of this new and “straight talking” MP. But Alex Tiffin certainly has. And what he has found is that Anderson is presiding over a cesspit of bigotry in his invitation-only Facebook group, including Islamophobia, anti-black racism, and a smattering of anti-Semitism.

Perhaps Tory MP for Ashfield [Lee Anderson] would like to explain why he's not calling out his friends suggesting [Dawn Butler] is taken out and shot” he muses, going on to point out that “This is on his PERSONAL Facebook page” and emphasising “For context, not just anyone can friend Lee Anderson MP on Facebook, he has to send a request himself. Therefore, he's sent requests to the very people now being racist and has said nothing after 24 hours of racism and abuse, despite being on FB since”.

What say Anderson?

There was a terse “Don't know the individual who made the comment, I profoundly disagree with every word he has commented and I have immediately removed him from accessing my page. Owing to the hundreds of comments I get do not see every comment and am grateful to you for highlighting this with me”. In reply.
 
But there was more.
 
As Tiffin has pointed out, other abusive comments about Ms Butler stayed up, as well as the Islamophobia aimed at London Mayor Sadiq Khan, including “Respect our rules and country or ****** off somewhere else”, “he has his own Muslim agenda that’s why he can’t do his job properly”, and “not only will statues be pulled down but Christian churches and well [sic] all find ourselves on prayer mats and on our knees praying to Allah”.
 
Could it get any worse? Sadly for Anderson, it could, as Tiffin goes on to show: “Tory MP Lee Anderson's friends also like to be Antisemitic about Jewish Labour members in London”. One of them commented “It’s because the Jewish Labour members mainly in London don’t want to be equal they want control and you know what they can have it”. Tired anti-Semitic trope suggesting Jews control everything.
 

 

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

Lord Sir Kier is going to have make a stand and say - We no longer want millions of migrants, by they EU or further away, piling into working class communities.

Most immigrants don't live in working class communities, they live in cities where most of the jobs are.

With a few exceptions, the areas that mostly voted to leave the EU were the least impacted by immigration.

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19 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Most immigrants don't live in working class communities, they live in cities where most of the jobs are.

With a few exceptions, the areas that mostly voted to leave the EU were the least impacted by immigration.

Unexpected immigration was major factor behind Middlesbrough school places crisis

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/immigration-revealed-single-biggest-factor-15921386

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11 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Unexpected immigration was major factor behind Middlesbrough school places crisis

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/immigration-revealed-single-biggest-factor-15921386

Are you unable to read my post correctly?

I expected that you'd post an anecdotal outlier so I specifically said this:

"With a few exceptions, the areas that mostly voted to leave the EU were the least impacted by immigration."

Edited by dugsbody
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7 hours ago, spyguy said:

...Lord Sir Kier is going to have make a stand and say - We no longer want millions of migrants, by they EU or further away, piling into working class communities.

Until Lord Sir Kier - or the the next leader, or the next leader, actually makes a stand for the the interest of their constituents rather than their wishy washy middle class signalling, then Labour will lurch down and down.

Labour has been muzzled and put back on it's lead for the corperate interests. Framing up to be the next caretaker gov't (media clearly on side now), talking a lot but will change nothing, passifiers who'll probably largely implement a soft Tory manifesto. Ring any bells? '97 of em.

 

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  • 8 months later...

And the  implosion  of Labour continues.

This is not down to Starmer. Or Corbyn. Its Brown.

In  preparation for the Brown millennia, Brown bullied, bribed and blackmailed all senior people out of the party.

The Labour left were ignored as he did not see them as a threat.

When the whole Brown movement collapsed, starting with the Scottish banks blowing up, then the 2010 loss, which has carried on compounding, there was only the left loons and people who were elected post 2010 left.

 

 

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On 07/05/2021 at 07:00, spyguy said:

And the  implosion  of Labour continues.

This is not down to Starmer. Or Corbyn. Its Brown.

In  preparation for the Brown millennia, Brown bullied, bribed and blackmailed all senior people out of the party.

The Labour left were ignored as he did not see them as a threat.

When the whole Brown movement collapsed, starting with the Scottish banks blowing up, then the 2010 loss, which has carried on compounding, there was only the left loons and people who were elected post 2010 left.

 

 

For better or worse, I don't think Gordon Brown ever went anywhere near the South Asian bloc votes.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/08/labours-khalid-mahmood-says-party-has-become-london-centric

Quote

In an article for thinktank Policy Exchange, the MP for Birmingham Perry Barr said: “Labour has lost touch with ordinary British people. A London-based bourgeoisie, with the support of brigades of woke social media warriors, has effectively captured the party.

“They mean well, of course, but their politics – obsessed with identity, division and even tech utopianism – have more in common with those of Californian high society than the kind of people who voted in Hartlepool yesterday.”

I think Keir Starmer (the 'Sir' is silent) is a grey man in a red tie.  Even though Brexit is the symptom of an existential crisis in the Labour party, there's no way he'd do something as radical as discontinuing eligibility of economic migrants for non-contribution based state benefits.

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