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Firsttimebuyer2016

Belfast apartments

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Hi guys. Been following the forum for a while now but this is my first post.

 

I guess what I'm looking for is advise on the current state of Belfast's apartment market. Having spoken to a few home owners in the city, they seem to be of the opinion that it is relatively stable- I stand to be corrected.

Of the properties on the market, the following have caught my eye- are there any strong feelings either way on them?

Arc apartments (I have read the topic specific to these flats), Obel (there seems to be a general consensus to stay clear), Danesfort, St Anne's Square, The Sandford, Pottingers Quay, Queens Square etc

 

Any advise or opinions would be much appreciated.

Cheers

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Irish_stu said:

I've been keeping an eye on the city centre apartment market for some time now and would have thought things appear to be cooling off in the past few months.

you still see apartments appearing like the below, and I'm surprised anyone finds them good value at these prices....

https://www.propertynews.com/4rmsg

I know of a 2 bed Belfast city center flat far more impressive than this one in every way, which sold a few months back for £160K - and even then there was only one offer and it took several months to sell.

So I'm not buying the idea that anyone's coughing up over 200K for a city centre flat these days.

Edited by JoeDavola

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20 hours ago, Irish_stu said:

Which apartment block was that in Joe?

I would rather not say. But suffice to say people aren't coughing up anywhere near £200K for 2 bed flats.

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On 19/03/2017 at 3:31 PM, Irish_stu said:

I've been keeping an eye on the city centre apartment market for some time now and would have thought things appear to be cooling off in the past few months.

Despite the efforts to conceal it. Aside from being the only region in the UK not to publish Land Registry figures in full, there's the issue of hiding / misrepresenting reductions.

You can see it clearly when the property is noticeable, like this Malone Rd offer. It's been on the market for at least a year, the Belfast Telegraph covered it in Feb 2016:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/video-news/video-homefinder-property-of-the-week-lisroyan-154-malone-road-belfast-34443693.html

I think it was first listed higher than the £1.2m showing on Zoopla, along with a 12.5% reduction:

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/43356462?search_identifier=fad408cd5d9e0aacb5e60e2084b547d3

But according to PropertyPal it was added three days ago:

https://www.propertypal.com/154-malone-road-belfast/448820

And according to Property News it's "NEW":

https://www.propertynews.com/Property/BELFAST/TRLTRL81716/154-Malone-Road/414098502/Page1

Takes a close eye to see through the misrepresentation on lower-value properties.

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I have no doubt we can all find examples where vendors were too greedy or too stubborn to place their property on at the right price and sooner or later have either had to withdraw or adjust.

However the NIRPPI records the sale price of all properties and it has shown this figure to increase for the last 3 years or so. We can't start doubting that.

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We do have a couple of indexes but we don't have the individual home sales data that the rest of the UK enjoys. That information asymmetry by government policy creates a less efficient market.

But my main point was about the dominant property platforms misrepresenting sell offers to hide price cuts in a falling market.

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23 minutes ago, willie said:

Therefore the information they give the portals is?

The agents behaviour is one thing, but both platforms have progressively introduced changes to mask the decline in the market. You won't find much data on price reductions in NI because it was removed. The agents only have to provide the latest offer price to complete the trick.

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On Fri Mar 31 2017 at 6:27 PM, darkmarket said:

The agents behaviour is one thing, but both platforms have progressively introduced changes to mask the decline in the market. You won't find much data on price reductions in NI because it was removed. The agents only have to provide the latest offer price to complete the trick.

Agree with this. I stopped using PP when they gave in to estate agent pressure and removed the function to view price drops. When they removed the listing history I moved on. There is zero appetite here for price discovery from the people involved in selling property. The agents use every trick in the book to prevent it. Sometimes you can use the way back machine to get info on the old listing but it's hit and miss. We really need to put pressure on our local MPs to offer the same Land registry service as GB. Unfortunately my local MP is in to BTL. Fortunately he'll lose his seat when the boundary is redrawn, and I expect the new MP to be more open to the idea. 

 

The whole setup is designed to keep the buyer in the dark and treat them like mushrooms. 

Edited by 2buyornot2buy

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On Fri Mar 31 2017 at 3:38 PM, darkmarket said:

Despite the efforts to conceal it. Aside from being the only region in the UK not to publish Land Registry figures in full, there's the issue of hiding / misrepresenting reductions.

You can see it clearly when the property is noticeable, like this Malone Rd offer. It's been on the market for at least a year, the Belfast Telegraph covered it in Feb 2016:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/video-news/video-homefinder-property-of-the-week-lisroyan-154-malone-road-belfast-34443693.html

I think it was first listed higher than the £1.2m showing on Zoopla, along with a 12.5% reduction:

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/43356462?search_identifier=fad408cd5d9e0aacb5e60e2084b547d3

But according to PropertyPal it was added three days ago:

https://www.propertypal.com/154-malone-road-belfast/448820

And according to Property News it's "NEW":

https://www.propertynews.com/Property/BELFAST/TRLTRL81716/154-Malone-Road/414098502/Page1

Takes a close eye to see through the misrepresentation on lower-value properties.

There's a thread on it here I think. We talked about development potential and the swimming pool. 

It was previously on at 1.25 and "sold".  

 

In their defence, slightly? I think it was on with BTW. Sorry Simon Brien. Keep forgetting they are the same agent... 

Edited by 2buyornot2buy

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On 31/03/2017 at 6:27 PM, darkmarket said:

The agents behaviour is one thing, but both platforms have progressively introduced changes to mask the decline in the market. You won't find much data on price reductions in NI because it was removed. The agents only have to provide the latest offer price to complete the trick.

The most certain data is the NIRPPI as it will show the actual sold price and will give endless comparables with previous quarterly and annual trends. So you will see very clearly, albeit a quarter later, the movement in house prices in NI.

What you appear to be looking for is the difference between 'asking prices' and 'selling prices'. This can be very useful early indicator between the markets aspirations and reality. At the end of the market I operate in (mid market) there is certainly no sign of price reductions. However I don't know about the upper end. Lots of properties have been sitting there for a long time. If people have had to adjust their aspirations to match reality well that's just the market. Lowering prices to get a sale is business. Advertising that you had to do that is bad business and can scare away interested buyers.

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38 minutes ago, BelfastVI said:

At the end of the market I operate in (mid market) there is certainly no sign of price reductions.

Thanks for your anecdote, but what little evidence there is suggests otherwise.

This is getting a little off-topic, but the point remains that buyers need to be wary of attempts to mask the ongoing decline in market conditions when looking at Belfast apartments.

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4 hours ago, darkmarket said:

Thanks for your anecdote, but what little evidence there is suggests otherwise.

This is getting a little off-topic, but the point remains that buyers need to be wary of attempts to mask the ongoing decline in market conditions when looking at Belfast apartments.

Your welcome. 

I think buyers always need to remain wary of all advice they hear or read. You seam to be limiting this discussion now to apartments in Belfast. The example you give earlier was of upmarket houses in Malone. 

Your earlier post referred to a 'falling market'. I haven't seen evidence for this apart from a recent UUJ Report which shows one quarter falls. In another month we will have the NIRPPI report which covers all the sales transactions in NI. Your recent post refers to 'the ongoing decline in market conditions'. Not sure if you are referring to the same thing.

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New apartment development on the Ormeau road - portland 88 - prices starting from £160k (for 1 bedroom).  Seems a bit high when you can get 3 bedroom apartment nearby for £90k.

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On 2017-4-29 at 1:36 PM, carrick01 said:

New apartment development on the Ormeau road - portland 88 - prices starting from £160k (for 1 bedroom).  Seems a bit high when you can get 3 bedroom apartment nearby for £90k.

agreed

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