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spyguy

Thomas Mair courtcase

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Did he say anything?

It was all a bit too quick, with no detail or investigation into the whys and wheres.

Im in no way ddfenind the bellend, hes a twt tnuc. But i wanted more bzckground, investigation, rather than a quick photo of hus book shelf and dome gcse pyschology.

Theres no denying he killed Jo Cox. But there did not seem any effort spent explaining why, or justifying his actions.

The half ar5e evidence of finding Nazi books and odds and sods was lame. Mist teenager and squaddies have that sort of stuff. On that level of investigation my brothers would be knacked with their collection if nazi odds and ends, accumulated during their teenage years.

I found the courtcase unsatisfying, and did not attemot to take the case firther. Way too quick.

I did not find the member if far right or nazi stuff beliavable. He just came across as one of thousands of useless dossers you get in council estates across the country.

 

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he did not make any defence, so the judge will have summed up and issued some guidance for the jury.

 

its not why he did it the court is interested in, just that he did it.

guilty.

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1 minute ago, spyguy said:

Did he say anything?

It was all a bit too quick, with no detail or investigation into the whys and wheres.

Im in no way ddfenind the bellend, hes a twt tnuc. But i wanted more bzckground, investigation, rather than a quick photo of hus book shelf and dome gcse pyschology.

Theres no denying he killed Jo Cox. But there did not seem any effort spent explaining why, or justifying his actions.

The half ar5e evidence of finding Nazi books and odds and sods was lame. Mist teenager and squaddies have that sort of stuff. On that level of investigation my brothers would be knacked with their collection if nazi odds and ends, accumulated during their teenage years.

I found the courtcase unsatisfying, and did not attemot to take the case firther. Way too quick.

I did not find the member if far right or nazi stuff beliavable. He just came across as one of thousands of useless dossers you get in council estates across the country.

 

He had a "Home Rent Card" in his wallet when arrested near the scene, so it looks like he was renting a council property that he had previously shared with his grandmother (before she passed away) 

Mair offered no defence so he didn't speak in court at all. 

I guess we will never find out the background story. 

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Normally the defense offers some mitigating reason, p1ssing in wind with this one i know. Id just liked to have more blurb.

My guess is that he was getting the boot from the council house/benefit cut.

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Lots of unanswered questions.

The most notable being where did he acquire the gun and ammunition? 

The police and the court seemed happy to leave that issue unresolved which to my mind seems decidely odd in such a high profile murder of a politician.

Mair was a loner with a troubled family background and a poor health record. Despite that he had lived a completely non descript life up to the time of the offence and appears to have had no previous convictions. He undoubtedly had some Neo Nazi sympathies looking at his book collection but does not seem to have had any regular connections with any far right groups in the UK. He was not politicised in the way most far right and far left activists would be described. 

Maybe I am getting paranoid but the whole thing is not quite right. Normally in such attacks there is some sort of triggering event which sets the whole process in motion. It has been suggested he was worried about being turned out of his rented property but no real evidence of that was produced in court. 

A very unsatisfactory trial  where everyone seemed in an unnatural hurry to get the case done as quickly as possible with the defendant bundled behind bars without too many questions asked.

 

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44 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Yes. Where did the gun come from?

As far as I can determine it was stolen with the ammunition from a 4x4 in Keighly in  2015. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/23/jo-cox-mp-murder-trial-jury-due-retire-consider-verdicts-alleged/

Mair never travelled far from his home so it is highly unlikely he stole it. Nor does it appear he carried out the modifications to the weapons. Normally such nicked gear soon ends up sold to underworld armourers who are particularly keen to get their hands on the ammo. As far as is known Mair had no criminal connections and it seems very unlikely he would have hired out the 'piece' in the way most villains do when obtaining firearms. This means someone must have given him the weapon yet the police seem unable to track them down. Bizarrely despite his mental health issues, OCD etc Mair had apparently managed to hide his 'Nazi obsessions' for decades. So we have a low status and low achieving loner with almost zero social skills mysteriously acquiring a stolen shooter and carrying out the first assassination of a politician since Irish Republican terrorists killed Ian Gow. Mair possesses the sort of book collection that one would expect from a far right extremist but does n't seem to have any contacts with such groups in the UK and the police appear clueless about how he got the weapon. The whole thing is very, very odd.

My suspicion is that plods investigation into the firearm will soon be quietly dropped and as hotairmail suggests Mair will be shuffled off into some sort of mental institution never to be heard of again.

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3 minutes ago, hotairmail said:

It was a political show trial. In a year or two he will be quietly shuffled off to the mental unit for treatment. 

The whole process was a disgrace. No legal representation. No medical submission. No opportunity to speak

Yes, exactly what it was.

Shocking, awful act. Still think it is more likely a personal grievance against the system and someone snapping rather than an extremist act. Court case wrapped up and framed to fit a narrative. Lots of unanswered questions. Feeling that from beginning to end this event and tragedy has been useful to some.

 

 

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57 minutes ago, Alonso Quijano said:

Yes, exactly what it was.

Shocking, awful act. Still think it is more likely a personal grievance against the system and someone snapping rather than an extremist act. Court case wrapped up and framed to fit a narrative. Lots of unanswered questions. Feeling that from beginning to end this event and tragedy has been useful to some.

 

 

More details about the stolen weapon from the Telegraph and Argus

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/14923592.Gun_used_to_murder_MP_Jo_Cox_was_stolen_in_Keighley/?ref=rss

Laughably it seems that only now that Mair has been convicted are police launching a manhunt the person  who supplied him with the weapon

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/23/jo-cox-mp-murder-trial-jury-due-retire-consider-verdicts-alleged/

You would have thought that they would have completed that process before the case was sent to the CPS but one assumes getting the trial done and dusted was more important than finding out what actually was behind the murder. It seems everyone is happy with the trial narrative even if it has more loose ends than my old pullover.

I may be getting cynical but my money is on the supplier of that gun never being identified. 

Most of the evidence for Mairs past political affiliation s come from the SPLC in the US but some of the stuff seems of dubious provenance and mostly based on hearsay particularly regarding Mairs supposed attendance at National Alliance meetings in London given he rarely seems to have left Batley in his adult life

I would have this case down as a pure nut job killing if it was not for the presence of the firearm. The gun was not required to carry out the murder which easily could have been accomplished with a knife alone but it's presence was necessary to make the attack appear fully 'political'. As a consequence only discovering the supplier of the firearm will truly answer the question of why Jox Cox was killed.

 

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1 hour ago, stormymonday_2011 said:

Lots of unanswered questions.

...

A very unsatisfactory trial  where everyone seemed in an unnatural hurry to get the case done as quickly as possible with the defendant bundled behind bars without too many questions asked.

 

Well I don't believe he offered any defence.  The purpose of the trial was to determine whether he'd murdered someone, not to seek out motives and explanations.  It seems indisputable that he did actually do it, so what more did the court need to know if he wasn't going to deny it?

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We want to know the background and lead up story? 

I think i read reports that Mair had also targeted William Haigue who has a neaby constituency but i'm not sure. 

I don't think the authorities were keen on Mair speaking in court anyway.

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2 hours ago, Scunnered said:

Well I don't believe he offered any defence.  The purpose of the trial was to determine whether he'd murdered someone, not to seek out motives and explanations.  It seems indisputable that he did actually do it, so what more did the court need to know if he wasn't going to deny it.

It may be legally satisfactory to prove  straightforward common law murder but this case has heavy political overtones. If these questions are not posed at the trial then we don't really know why Jo Cox was killed and are never likely to get the full story  The narrative of motivation is simply left to the judge and the media to write as they feel fit. Some might regard as being a tad too convenient for certain parties who are essentially given a tabula rasa on which they can write any explanation they like regardless of whether it is true or not. In particular Mair has been labelled not just a murderer but a politically motivated killer despite the fact there were no terror charges on his indictment. One can not help thinking they were not included because that element of the case would have either been much more difficult to prove or would have resulted in inconvenient facts coming to light. So basically Cox's killing has been labelled as an act of far right terrorism without actually bothering to prove that fact in court even though there are plenty of laws which would have allowed Mair to be charged with terrorist offences.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/ctd.html

To my mind alone that makes it unsatisfactory as an exercise in public justice in the wider sense of the term

And needless to say the supplier of the firearm is an accessory to murder so that matter alone should be a matter of on going concern to the criminal justice system.

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I also found the skipping over of the logistics of the weapon and ammo to then mostly focus on the "Oh no! He's got Nazi stuff like that mad priest from Father Ted!" to be oddly very glib and patronising, even if it is a good indicator of a lonely, broken man who fixated on political violence.  

Yet it still feels disconcertingly similar to how the media latches on the outrage bandwagon when they often needlessly fixate on many killers' hobbies and obsessions in the past couple of decades, from violent video games to Heath Ledger's Joker (and Breaking Bad in a recent murder case).

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9 hours ago, workingpoor said:

We want to know the background and lead up story? 

I think i read reports that Mair had also targeted William Haigue who has a neaby constituency but i'm not sure. 

I don't think the authorities were keen on Mair speaking in court anyway.

No Richmond is way away from Batley. Mair seemed to walk everywhere, limiting his targets.

 

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11 hours ago, stormymonday_2011 said:

Lots of unanswered questions.

The most notable being where did he acquire the gun and ammunition? 

The police and the court seemed happy to leave that issue unresolved which to my mind seems decidely odd in such a high profile murder of a politician.

Mair was a loner with a troubled family background and a poor health record. Despite that he had lived a completely non descript life up to the time of the offence and appears to have had no previous convictions. He undoubtedly had some Neo Nazi sympathies looking at his book collection but does not seem to have had any regular connections with any far right groups in the UK. He was not politicised in the way most far right and far left activists would be described. 

Maybe I am getting paranoid but the whole thing is not quite right. Normally in such attacks there is some sort of triggering event which sets the whole process in motion. It has been suggested he was worried about being turned out of his rented property but no real evidence of that was produced in court. 

A very unsatisfactory trial  where everyone seemed in an unnatural hurry to get the case done as quickly as possible with the defendant bundled behind bars without too many questions asked.

 

mate of mine writes books about the Nazis.  He is far from White Supremacist and hates them.  Thats probably why he studies and writes about them.

The press is shite.

As for triggering, well, if its OK for Lefties and apparently normal people to call brexiters stupid and ignorant racist homophobes, then cry in public in fear, then im sure its the same for a lame brained mental case to do the same, and fear immigration just as much and do something about it.

Politics NOT REQUIRED.

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I'm not seeing an Edge of Darkness style conspiracy here; there are frequently stories of people being done for things and when their homes are searched add firearms offences to that list. I'm not talking about gangsters or drug dealers, just ordinary Joes. There are a lot of guns about, particularly in rural areas.

This one came to mind, Elvis impersonator goes rogue, found to have revolver, sawn off shotgun, and five other guns.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-29658636

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The gun is interesting.

I think the judge not asking for reports was interesting. You have to assume the guy is barking mad to not make any defence or statement at his trial. 
I assume it'll be down to the prison to get him sectioned at some point. 

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16 minutes ago, SarahBell said:

The gun is interesting.

I think the judge not asking for reports was interesting. You have to assume the guy is barking mad to not make any defence or statement at his trial. 
I assume it'll be down to the prison to get him sectioned at some point. 

Didn't he have a final statement ready and was denied reading it ?

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Just now, ccc said:

Didn't he have a final statement ready and was denied reading it ?

I wasn't there.
The news said he didn't give any defence. 

Which are not the actions of a sane man - he'd have pled guilty otherwise and not had to sit through the evidence.
 

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Whole of life sentence too.

So WHY the crime was committed is highly relevant.

From

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prisoners_with_whole-life_tariffs

"Because of the severity of the offence, including the political motivation (the trial judge said that he had no doubt that the murder was committed for the purpose of advancing a political, racial and ideological cause, namely that of violent white supremacism and exclusive nationalism most associated with Nazism[92]), the judge imposed a whole-life tariff.[93]"

 

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10 minutes ago, White Craw said:

Whole of life sentence too.

So WHY the crime was committed is highly relevant.

From

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prisoners_with_whole-life_tariffs

"Because of the severity of the offence, including the political motivation (the trial judge said that he had no doubt that the murder was committed for the purpose of advancing a political, racial and ideological cause, namely that of violent white supremacism and exclusive nationalism most associated with Nazism[92]), the judge imposed a whole-life tariff.[93]"

 

Do the judges not normally order reports before sentencing?

 

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