Fidel Castro Dies

[libspero]

Age 90.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/26/world/americas/fidel-castro-dies.html?_r=0

 

[spyguy]

I work with child of Cuban exile.

We talk about Fidel and Cuba a bit.

Putting aside his parents anger, he still has family in Cuba that he communicates with, in a round about manner.

Life in Cuba is a bit sh1t. Its not dire. Most people in the UK/low earners would have a better life in Cuba - consumer goods aside - than the UK.

Cuba is longer way from a failed state; its just a sh1t poltisised one.

I guess the story would be different if Cuba was not in the Caribbean and had cold winters though.

 

 

[Frank Hovis]

Good.

I had to turn off the eulogy on the BBC half an hour ago.

[spyguy]

1 minute ago, Frank Hovis said:

Good.

I had to turn off the eulogy on the BBC half an hour ago.

From one statist to another statist.

I should add to my comment, that I personality , I could not live in he Cuba.

I wonder if Haiti will sort itself now.

Crossing with the aid thread, maybe we should just wipe out the popluation of Haiti and start again.

Its hard to come to any other conclusion that the current people, social, economic mix in Haiti is fcked.

 

[Bloo Loo]

3 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Good.

I had to turn off the eulogy on the BBC half an hour ago.

LOL

[Frank Hovis]

7 minutes ago, Montecristo said:

Say what you want about Castro, but there is no one sleeping rough in Cuba tonight.

This is presumably a variant upon the "he made the trains run on time" joke.

[MrPin]

Damn it. Now I will have to visit North Korea instead, to see utopia, or maybe Libya, or Sudan.

[Snagger]

I went to cuba in 2005, didn't get many opportunities to speak to locals that didn't work or had relatives that work in the tourist industry, tourists were insulated from the real Cuba. But I did get to talk with a few on the street in Havanna, they were very unhappy with life in cuba and had very hard lives from what they told me. ie 60 year old (my guess) working 16 hours a day, every day, in a warehouse and earning a pittance. 

[The Masked Tulip]

Now that there is no money in Haiti Spyguy, will all those celebs stop visiting?

[Frank Hovis]

48 minutes ago, MrPin said:

Damn it. Now I will have to visit North Korea instead, to see utopia, or maybe Libya, or Sudan.

There is that great socialist paradise of Hugo Chavez's Venezuela; the one lauded by the left for its success and its anti-US and anti big business stance.

The one that is now bankrupt with its people dying from lack of medicines and food.

Plucky old Venezuela eh? Moving on quickly to the next socialist utopia...

[Dorkins]

1 hour ago, Montecristo said:

Say what you want about Castro, but there is no one sleeping rough in Cuba tonight.

Cuba's housing crisis is dire, the resources have not gone into maintaining the housing stock and now they are literally crumbling away.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-18218293

[spyguy]

1 hour ago, Snagger said:

I went to cuba in 2005, didn't get many opportunities to speak to locals that didn't work or had relatives that work in the tourist industry, tourists were insulated from the real Cuba. But I did get to talk with a few on the street in Havanna, they were very unhappy with life in cuba and had very hard lives from what they told me. ie 60 year old (my guess) working 16 hours a day, every day, in a warehouse and earning a pittance. 

Thats doesnt tally with waht Ive heard of Cuba over the last 20 years.

I did thin of going their to work on my Spanish. Diets mainly pork+chicken  based, which is no good for me.

Is not North Korea. Its not even China. You are free to come and go and chat to who you like - bar the odd prisoner.

As far as the older generation being happy with their lot. Its more a case that the plebs siezed control and the rich and business owners fled to Miami.

[knock out johnny]

In his own words

One of the greatest benefits of the revolution is that even our prostitutes are college graduates.” – Castro to director Oliver Stone in 2003 documentary Comandante.

 

What an awesome achievement 

The fact that pr!ck Ken livingstone was on R4 this morning eulogising him tells me all I need to know

Evil, evil dictator - cnt

[Snagger]

11 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Thats doesnt tally with waht Ive heard of Cuba over the last 20 years.

I did thin of going their to work on my Spanish. Diets mainly pork+chicken  based, which is no good for me.

Is not North Korea. Its not even China. You are free to come and go and chat to who you like - bar the odd prisoner.

As far as the older generation being happy with their lot. Its more a case that the plebs siezed control and the rich and business owners fled to Miami.

yes you can go whereever you want, but the tourist areas are vastly different to the rest of the country, very few tourists leave their full board hotel, official tour, or venture out of Havanna. We spoke to our tour guide frequently, and learnt for example, that only one member of a family is allowed to work in tourism, as the earnings are so much greater than any other industry due to tips. Locals don't even live in the tourist areas and are bussed in/out daily.

It wasn't USSR in 1984 that's for sure (I was there then too), but there was a divide, which could be crossed if you were motivated to do so, but unless you went looking for genuine Cuban life, you just got the tourist experience.

And the few locals I spoke with were very unhappy, sorry if that dosn't fit with your expeience, but that's the message I took away from Cuba.

[spyguy]

Just now, Snagger said:

yes you can go whereever you want, but the tourist areas are vastly different to the rest of the country, very few tourists leave their full board hotel, offcicial tour, or venture out of Havanna. We spoke to our tour guide frequently, and learnt for example, that only one member of a family is allowed to work in tourism, as the earnings are so much greaters than any other industry due to tips. Locals don't even live in the tuorist areas and are bussed in/out daily.

It wasn't USSR in 1984 that's for sure (I was there then too), but there was a divide, which could be crossed if your were motivated to do so, but unless you went looking for genuine Cuban life, you just got the tourist experience.

And the few locals I spoke with were very unhappy, sorry if that dosn't fit with your expeience, but that's the message I took away from Cuba.

But thats through choice, rather than being physically restricted, or having to take a government lacky around with you.

As far as local not living in the tourist area ... I raise you Cornwall.

Again, Im not justify Cuba. Casto was a twit but he certainly was not Stalin. And it helps living in on a warm, smallish island.

AS my Ciban mate said - Living in Cuba is like living with your parents for ever.

Which is more accurate than it sounds. The economy has barelygrown, everything goes to keeping stuff in a wierd statis. No one moves out of home, kids become parents, no houses traded, so everyone piles up with the resources they had in 1950s.

 

 

 

[spyguy]

4 minutes ago, knock out johnny said:

In his own words

One of the greatest benefits of the revolution is that even our prostitutes are college graduates.” – Castro to director Oliver Stone in 2003 documentary Comandante.

 

What an awesome achievement 

The fact that pr!ck Ken livingstone was on R4 this morning eulogising him tells me all I need to know

Evil, evil dictator - cnt

Most of the ones round Middlesbrough had done some course at what was the poly.

Now the towns full of Romanian Phds.

[spyguy]

51 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

There is that great socialist paradise of Hugo Chavez's Venezuela; the one lauded by the left for its success and its anti-US and anti big business stance.

The one that is now bankrupt with its people dying from lack of medicines and food.

Plucky old Venezuela eh? Moving on quickly to the next socialist utopia...

Wierldly, if you wanted to know what a Corbyn UK would look like than look at Venezuela.

Jezzer is totally smitten with South American peasant struggles.

Imagine Chavez doign his economy and bribes but without the oil.

[ChewingGrass]

8 minutes ago, Snagger said:

Locals don't even live in the tourist areas and are bussed in/out daily.

 

4 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Living in Cuba is like living with your parents for ever.

 

8 minutes ago, knock out johnny said:

One of the greatest benefits of the revolution is that even our prostitutes are college graduates.

Sounds awfully like London with less money floating around.

[spyguy]

Just now, ChewingGrass said:

 

 

Sounds awfully like London with less money floating around.

And colder rain.

[A17]

13 minutes ago, knock out johnny said:

The fact that pr!ck Ken livingstone was on R4 this morning eulogising him tells me all I need to know

Evil, evil dictator - cnt

The flaw in anybody praising the workers paradises is that the guns on the border tend to point in, rather than out.  I'd certainly be praising Latin American one party socialist states if they paid for my big house in a nice part of London too.  It's childish to say so, but if Ken Livingstone praises Cuba so much, he should go and live there.  I'm sure they would welcome him with open arms!

[Orsino]

Back in the 1950s educated young people like Castro believed they could achieve anything, and that drove them to achieve remarkable things. He was a visionary who made his dream a reality and how many people can say that? Courage, daring, leadership, endurance and a single-minded focus. Regardless of whether you agree with his vision, he was someone to be admired. I can't think of a single 21st Century figure that comes close.

[A17]

2 minutes ago, Orsino said:

Back in the 1950s educated young people like Castro believed they could achieve anything, and that drove them to achieve remarkable things. He was a visionary who made his dream a reality and how many people can say that? Courage, daring, leadership, endurance and a single-minded focus. Regardless of whether you agree with his vision, he was someone to be admired. I can't think of a single 21st Century figure that comes close.

Trump?

[Orsino]

1 minute ago, A17 said:

Trump?

Would Trump be prepared to go to jail for his beliefs? Would he pick up a rifle and go and fight and die for them? Personally I doubt that. I was thinking that Elon Musk might be the nearest equivalent today, but the risks he takes are primarily financial. 

[Frank Hovis]

55 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

Cuba's housing crisis is dire, the resources have not gone into maintaining the housing stock and now they are literally crumbling away.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-18218293

Very interesting, thanks.

The physical state of a country's housing tells you a lot about its finances. Maintaining houses properly over the long term is expensive but you can always kick the big bills down the road a few years; keep doing that however and the unpaid bill will just get bigger.  Hence the £370m big hit for Buckingham Palace because there was no rolling programme of renovation over the last fifty years.

The vast wave of transfers of social housing from councils to housing associations over the last twenty years has been mostly driven by the councils' inability to stop a steady decline in their condition; mostly because of central government underfunding rather than the usual council incompetence.

[spyguy]

10 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Very interesting, thanks.

The physical state of a country's housing tells you a lot about its finances. Maintaining houses properly over the long term is expensive but you can always kick the big bills down the road a few years; keep doing that however and the unpaid bill will just get bigger.  Hence the £370m big hit for Buckingham Palace because there was no rolling programme of renovation over the last fifty years.

The vast wave of transfers of social housing from councils to housing associations over the last twenty years has been mostly driven by the councils' inability to stop a steady decline in their condition; mostly because of central government underfunding rather than the usual council incompetence.

Cuba was good for sugar cane and tobaccie.

Durable goods? Less so.

If a country ever needed to embrace the free market and trade then Cuba was it.