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Royal Navy runs out of missiles


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HOLA441
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HOLA442
13 hours ago, Rare Bear said:

I was refering to the Super Tucano.

Rumours from tiem to time about restarting production of the A10 too.

 

The unit cost for an A10 was under $20m. Not sure what a 2016 build cost would be but as most the development has been done I wouldn't have thought that much more. Add to that updated avionics etc.

 

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HOLA443
14 hours ago, Rare Bear said:

I was refering to the Super Tucano.

Rumours from tiem to time about restarting production of the A10 too.

 

As someone else said Drones are the way to go in the long term. The problem with current models is what they can carry and speed of response which is typically 200mph v  > Mach 1 and heavy payload. A Predator armed with two hellfire missiles and an hour away is not much use to a ground unit under heavy fire.

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HOLA444
4 hours ago, Kurt Barlow said:

As someone else said Drones are the way to go in the long term. The problem with current models is what they can carry and speed of response which is typically 200mph v  > Mach 1 and heavy payload. A Predator armed with two hellfire missiles and an hour away is not much use to a ground unit under heavy fire.

Presumably the missiles would have significant range, so it would be possible to use an easily calculable number of drones to achieve blanket coverage of a given theatre of operations.

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HOLA445
On Tuesday, December 06, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Rare Bear said:

Someone did ask 'Who would fly a single engined aircraft over Afganistan?'

What alot of F35 jingoists neglect to mention is that it is exactly that, a single engine aircraft.

The Jordanian pilot who was the victim of a cage burning was flying a single engined F16 over Iraq.

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49 minutes ago, Hail the Tripod said:

Presumably the missiles would have significant range, so it would be possible to use an easily calculable number of drones to achieve blanket coverage of a given theatre of operations.

Hellfire has a range of about 5 miles and cost over $100K each with a warhead similar in size to a 105mm shell. Heavier longer range missiles mean larger drones / shorter loiter times

Multiple drones start to strip away the cost benefits although the reduction in risk to the pilot is a significant factor.

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9 minutes ago, Solitaire said:

Our military capabilities are not diminished :ph34r:

This is the updated version of Predator.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_MQ-9_Reaper

 

 

Would not fancy being a soldier on the ground, surrounded and under attack by a superior force, calling for air support and being told that the nearest Reaper is 400 miles and 2 hours away.

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On 08/12/2016 at 2:14 AM, Kurt Barlow said:

The unit cost for an A10 was under $20m. Not sure what a 2016 build cost would be but as most the development has been done I wouldn't have thought that much more. Add to that updated avionics etc.

 

So why not some hybrid between harrier/a10/chinook?.as long as it can go vertical,hover/turn on a sixpence,be sufficiently robust as to take significant hits against AAA/SAM, and can take a payload of  a dozen or so special ops with equipment for a pickup/drop, it would suffice.You would need silence,stealth mode,cool running, hard bottom+wings and a decent(not top of the range) EW suite against ground attack as main priorities.

the osprey AFAIK has a bit of a chequered history with regards to reliability, and the big props make for a chunky target.

1)harriers strength was being able to hover/loiter/VTOL and a fairly decent armory for close in air support.

2)A10 strength was hardened fuselage and engines mounted above rear wing,made it very difficult for SAM to take down,even with a direct hit to the plane, also that monster front gun just completely mangles everything in it's path.

3)chinook can do troop lift/heavy lift, but is prone to mechanical problems, and not that manouvreable.

 

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Just now, oracle said:

So why not some hybrid between harrier/a10/chinook?.as long as it can go vertical,hover/turn on a sixpence,be sufficiently robust as to take significant hits against AAA/SAM, and can take a payload of  a dozen or so special ops with equipment for a pickup/drop, it would suffice.You would need silence,stealth mode,cool running, hard bottom+wings and a decent(not top of the range) EW suite against ground attack as main priorities.

the osprey AFAIK has a bit of a chequered history with regards to reliability, and the big props make for a chunky target.

1)harriers strength was being able to hover/loiter/VTOL and a fairly decent armory for close in air support.normal running speed for operations is similar to osprey at about 350KT

2)A10 strength was hardened fuselage and engines mounted above rear wing,made it very difficult for SAM to take down,even with a direct hit to the plane, also that monster front gun just completely mangles everything in it's path.

3)chinook can do troop lift/heavy lift, but is prone to mechanical problems, and not that manouvreable.

 

 

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HOLA4414
On 08/12/2016 at 2:26 AM, Kurt Barlow said:

As someone else said Drones are the way to go in the long term. The problem with current models is what they can carry and speed of response which is typically 200mph v  > Mach 1 and heavy payload. A Predator armed with two hellfire missiles and an hour away is not much use to a ground unit under heavy fire.

I think there'll be a customish/hydrid drone/missile.

Just chuck a load of rouhgly guided missiles at an area. Sorted.

Western infantry is dead. We cannot bear the cost of throwing 1000s of troops to fight suicide bombers. The West current threats are all Islamic; Russia is not going to enter a war with the West. Itll annoy and diddle with countries near its border.

China. Maybe. But its a long way from both EU + America.

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Quote

 

F-35 fighter jets cost driven DOWN after President-elect's anger

THE chief executive of Lockheed Martin Corp told President-elect Donald Trump on Friday that she was committed to driving down the cost of the company's F-35 fighter jet, a day after Trump took aim at the cost of the F-35 in a Twitter post. CEO Marillyn Hewson said she spoke with Mr Trump on Friday afternoon and assured him that she had heard his message "loud and clear" about reducing the cost of the F-35. Mr Trump, in a tweet posted late on Thursday, suggested that an older aircraft made by rival aerospace company Boeing Co could offer a cheaper alternative to the F-35.

 

UK should ask for the discount as well.
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HOLA4417
On 24/12/2016 at 7:10 PM, Kurt Barlow said:

So the QE class carriers are about to become the worlds most expensive helicopter carriers.

Best start dusting off the plans for BAE Harrier MkIII

and this time keep the politicians and military top brass out of the loop.

the beauty of the A10 is it was the grunts favourite,...the people on the coal face saw it as a utility, the people at the top were more interested in flashy lamborghini's.

 

to put in relationship terms,when the chips are down and life is throwing all of the effluent towards your particular fan, the A10 is the not particularly pretty but total stalwart who will stand by you no matter how much abuse is coming, whereas the f35 is paris hilton who looks nice but will throw a hissy fit and not come out to play if it's raining and she'll get here hair wet/out of position from the stylist.

 

so in that respect trump is absolutely right to concentrate on the not particularly flash,but 100%+ functional.

there is most certainly a problem with class snobbery in sections of the military(like sandhurst)..I have a friend who did officer training there some years ago,but came from a private school on government assisted place scheme as it was back then.

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HOLA4418

There is still an important role for the A10. Unfortunately, it has become a political victim of the F-35 lobby who see eliminating the A10 completely as further justification for buying the F-35 - and buying lots of F-35s. So it is really hard to judge what is going on but that is true of everything that has any connection to the F-35 programme.

The A10 has been amazing in operation since the first Gulf War right up until the present day. However, one draw-back is that it is increasingly vulnerable to MANPADs as they begin to get into the hands of the 'bad guys'. The battlefield 5 or 10 years from now might be so heavily contested by MANPADs that it will be impossible for any aircraft to operate under 20,000 feet and perhaps even under 30,000 feet.

If we went to war against Russia or China then NATO pilots would face thousands of MANPADs. In such an enviroment the A10 pilots will need to have eyes in the back of their heads. MANPADs user IR to lock onto an aircraft and, whilst the A10 was specifically designed to run cooler and to have shielded engines, the problem oneday will most likely be the sheer number of them on a battlefield.

Then there are countries such as Turkey, which supposedly has supplied them into Syria to their allies, Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc, etc, who have them and who might oneday be our enemies.

I personally think that the A10 should be kept going for another 10 years, at least, but the F-35 is so powerful in the US. Apparently it can do so many things that the US Congress is now considering replacing all hammers and coffee machines in the Pentagon with F-35s.

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