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The Spaniard

My BetWay Experience - Advice Wanted

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A few days ago I bet £100 with BetWay, Trump to win at 2/1.

I did this because the BetWay offer to new customers was a 100% free bet up to £100, which sounded good. I used my ‘free bet’ to double up my original £100 bet. I now have a ‘cash balance’ of £600 with BetWay (£100 + £100 = £200 at 2/1).

The BetWay bet was in addition to my other Trump-to-win bets with Ladbrokes, PaddyPower and BetFred, all with enticing new customer deals. These three firms have all paid up, no problems.

Unfortunately I now find that I cannot withdraw ANY of the BetWay £600, I must re-cycle ALL of it through further bets, with the added condition of odds 7/4 or longer only. Yes, I should have read the pages of smallprint T&C. I was fooled by the attractive and seemingly clear headline offer.

A further BetWay restriction is that if, for example, I play roulette with it, only 8% (yes, just eight per cent) counts as a bet. This precludes my using the £600 to cover uniformly the roulette board for a guarenteed (and satisfactory) return of (36/37)x 600 = £583.78.

Thus I need to find a group of sporting events/bets, each bet at odds of 7/4 or longer, over which to distribute the £600, which would have a very high probablility of a return of (say) £300.

My only other option is to cancel the whole BetWay deal, get back just my original £100, and put it all down to experience. What was presented as an attractive marketing ploy to attract new business has turned out to be a complete alienation from BetWay, at least for this punter.

Any suggestions, please?

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Easy.

you will need to make further bets and lay them off using a betting exchange such as betfair exchange, smarkets, betdaq etc.

pm @Rave for help as he is an accomplished matched bettor. 

You should be able to guarantee most of your winnings this way

 

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I had a similar experience, not with this company though, and not involving free bets. They basically would let me withdraw funds until all the money I put into the new account had been churned. I eventually got them to allow me to do so as a one off, I explained why I had opened the account (to take advantage of their high odds) and now wished to withdraw my stake and winnings. After that I promply closed the account!

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Also, @The Spaniard do you actually have £600 in the account? Typically they don't give you the free bet stake back so id  only expect you to have a balance of £500. 

£100 initial stake + £200 winnings + £200 winnings from free bet.

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1 minute ago, 24 year mortgage 8itch said:

Also, @The Spaniard do you actually have £600 in the account? Typically they don't give you the free bet stake back so id  only expect you to have a balance of £500. 

£100 initial stake + £200 winnings + £200 winnings from free bet.

I did at least check this before I made the bet and indeed it is the full £600 now in my 'cash account'.

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Yes, as others have said, you need to roll it over backing on Betway, laying on an exchange. Read the Terms and Conditions of how many times you need to roll it over, and also check that there isn't a cap on max winnings, which someone on my matched betting forum mentions that there may be. If it's only a 1x rollover you should be able to keep most of it; I would do it as 6 bets of £100 (or even 12x50) rather than lumping it all on in one go, personally, less likely to end up with a massive wodge in Betway and a big loss on the exchange that way. Betway don't seem to be one of the bad operators though who routinely stiff people, unlike some others I could mention, so roll the bets over as per the terms and you should be alright.

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50 minutes ago, The Spaniard said:

I did at least check this before I made the bet and indeed it is the full £600 now in my 'cash account'.

Can you post the full terms? On the normal sports signups the odds are 3/4 or 1.75 in new money. 7/4 sounds a bit steep. Also what is the rollover requirement? And as @Rave says there could be a max winnings term but I don't recall Betway having one. Not like Winner. 

You our will need other funds to lay these bets off as you will need to cover the winnings. You'll need a few grand in cash on the exchange by the looks of it. The trouble with backing and laying Scotland is that you'll need £4.5k in your exchange account to cover you. And the way Englamd are playing I think Scotland have a chance.

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7 minutes ago, Rave said:

Yes, as others have said, you need to roll it over backing on Betway, laying on an exchange. Read the Terms and Conditions of how many times you need to roll it over, and also check that there isn't a cap on max winnings, which someone on my matched betting forum mentions that there may be. If it's only a 1x rollover you should be able to keep most of it; I would do it as 6 bets of £100 (or even 12x50) rather than lumping it all on in one go, personally, less likely to end up with a massive wodge in Betway and a big loss on the exchange that way. Betway don't seem to be one of the bad operators though who routinely stiff people, unlike some others I could mention, so roll the bets over as per the terms and you should be alright.

Thanks, Rave and others.

I understand (phone call to BetWay) that only one rollover is necessary.

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4 minutes ago, 24 year mortgage 8itch said:

Can you post the full terms? On the normal sports signups the odds are 3/4 or 1.75 in new money. 7/4 sounds a bit steep. Also what is the rollover requirement? And as @Rave says there could be a max winnings term but I don't recall Betway having one. Not like Winner. 

You our will need other funds to lay these bets off as you will need to cover the winnings. You'll need a few grand in cash on the exchange by the looks of it. The trouble with backing and laying Scotland is that you'll need £4.5k in your exchange account to cover you. And the way Englamd are playing I think Scotland have a chance.

Betway Sports – Welcome Bonus Terms and Conditions

Sports Welcome Bonus Offer – Qualification Terms

  1. The Sports Welcome Bonus Offer is a 100% match based on a New Customer’s 1st deposit at Betway Sports.
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NOTE: existing Betway customers and customers who register a duplicate Betway Sports account are not eligible for this offer (this includes customers who return having previously closed a Betway Sports/.com account).

  1. To qualify for this offer a New Customer is required to:

a) opt-in to the offer by ticking the box ‘I wish to receive the Sports Welcome Bonus offer and accept the Terms and Conditions’ during the account registration process: and

B) make a minimum deposit of £10/$10/€10 using a valid credit/debit card or PayPal account during the promotional period and within 7 days of a new Sports account being registered.

NOTE: having qualified for the offer, a 100% Sports Welcome Bonus will be automatically credited to the Bonus Account.

  1. The maximum Sports Welcome Bonus is £100/$100/€100 and only 1 Bonus is permitted per New Customer.
  2. If you ticked the box ‘I wish to receive the Sports Welcome Bonus offer and accept the Terms and Conditions’ by mistake, or if you wish to cancel the Welcome Bonus, please contact Customer Support immediately.

Sports Welcome Bonus Offer – Usage Terms

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- eight (8) times playthrough (wagering), if bet in Sports at odds of 1.75 or above

- forty eight (48) times playthrough (wagering), if bet in Sports at odds between 1.3 and 1.74

- forty eight (48) times playthrough (wagering), if bet in Casino

3.  Play at certain casino games & bets at certain odds will contribute a different percentage towards the playthrough (wagering) requirement.

a) The contributing percentages are as follows:

Sports Wagering

600% - all Sports bets at odds of 1.75 or above (= 8x wagering)

100% - all Sports bets at odds between 1.3 and 1.74 (= 48x wagering)

0% - all Sports bets at odds of 1.29 or below

NOTE: any Forecast (FC) or Tricast (TC) bets placed, as well as any placed using Starting Price, will not count towards sports wagering

Casino Wagering

100% - all Slots and all Parlor Games

8% - all Table Pokers, all Roulettes, all Video/Power Pokers (except All Aces and Jacks or Better Video/Power Pokers), all Blackjacks (except all Classic Blackjacks) and Casino War

0% – all Classic Blackjacks, All Aces Video/Power Pokers, Jacks or Better Video/Power Pokers, all Baccarats, all Craps, Red Dog and Sic Bo

Should you play on the excluded games (0%) before meeting the playthrough requirement, you agree that Betway Sports holds the right to void any winnings made from such games at its discretion.

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  6. Betway Sports considers all the above Terms to be fair and by your participation in the Sports Welcome Bonus you consent to abide by them. Should you require any clarification or advice regarding these Terms, please contact Customer Support.

Bonus Account – General Terms

A Customer's total account balance consists of a Cash Account and a Bonus Account. Withdrawals cannot be made from the Bonus Account, but the Bonus Account can be used to place wagers. You will be unable to withdraw any amount from your account until you've either met the wagering requirements or played through all funds in the Bonus Account.

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a) Playthrough is achieved when any real money wager is made.

B) Any wagers made are deducted from the Cash Account first. Should there be no cash available, the wager is deducted from the Bonus Account. Funds in the Bonus Account are only played if there are insufficient credits in the Cash Account.

c) Winnings resulting from wagers made from the Cash Account are credited directly to the Cash Account. Winnings resulting from wagers made from the Bonus Account are credited back to the Bonus Account.

d) If crediting a Bonus Account with winnings results in the Bonus Account balance exceeding the original bonus amount, any excess winnings are credited to the Cash Account. Note: this is less any automatic transfers that have occurred from the Bonus Account to the Cash Account.

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29 minutes ago, The Spaniard said:

So, does "odds of 1.75" mean 3/4, and not 7/4 as I have assumed?

Yes :) evens = 2

will look at terms later when I have more time.

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Just now, 24 year mortgage 8itch said:

Yes :) evens = 2

will look at terms later when I have more time.

Thanks, I would very much appreciate your interpretation.

BTW, I have a PhD in maths, but almost no betting experience.

These very complicated T&C for an introductory offer seems to me counter productive for attracting new business.

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To keep you all updated and to save you further efforts I have done the following:

I bet the whole BetWays £600 on Shaun Murphy to beat John Higgins tonight at 17/20 (1.85 in newspeak).

BetWay would not let me make related bets, that is on John Higgins, Murphy's opponent.

However, I now have it in writing that should I win on Murphy then I can withdraw the resulting £1110 with no further bets required. :)

I then bet £500 on Higgins to win with Ladbrokes at evens (2.0 in newspeak.)

So, if Higgins wins I get £1000.

My total stake is my original £100 on Trump, plus my £500 on Higgins, so £600 altogether.

I will make £400 if Higgins wins or £510 if Murphy wins. Either way I am happy. :)

No doubt I could have improved on this using a more sophisticated strategy through smarkets or similar but I am naturally lazy.

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread and to my education.

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Well Spanny, since you a Doctor of maths, you must be cleverer at me at betting. Although I am wishing I had bet on the mop top plonker, a year back.:o

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1 hour ago, The Spaniard said:

To keep you all updated and to save you further efforts I have done the following:

I bet the whole BetWays £600 on Shaun Murphy to beat John Higgins tonight at 17/20 (1.85 in newspeak).

BetWay would not let me make related bets, that is on John Higgins, Murphy's opponent.

However, I now have it in writing that should I win on Murphy then I can withdraw the resulting £1110 with no further bets required. :)

I then bet £500 on Higgins to win with Ladbrokes at evens (2.0 in newspeak.)

That's known as Dutching, just for future reference. Quite a good way round it in two way or sometimes 3-way markets. One or other of those large bets is going to win obviously, and you may well find that whichever bookie pays out will not be keen to accept further business from you! Though if you lumped over £500 cash in a Ladbrokes shop there's not a great deal they can do. Pretty sure Ladbrokes still do a £100 sign up free bet as well, you didn't get that as well then? :P

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1 hour ago, Rave said:

That's known as Dutching, just for future reference. Quite a good way round it in two way or sometimes 3-way markets. One or other of those large bets is going to win obviously, and you may well find that whichever bookie pays out will not be keen to accept further business from you! Though if you lumped over £500 cash in a Ladbrokes shop there's not a great deal they can do. Pretty sure Ladbrokes still do a £100 sign up free bet as well, you didn't get that as well then? :P

Thanks for the 'Dutching' label, which I didn't know.

I was already a Ladbrokes member, having joined and put £100 Trump to win at 9/2 on 18 October and getting a £50 (non-returnable) newbie's free bet, also put on Trump to win at 9/2.

A nice return of £775 for my £100 bet which Ladbrokes paid in full immediately after the result. :)

As I say, I almost never bet, but I just couldn't resist the deals for new customers combined with the odds offered on Trump.

I bet on Murphy vs Higgins for convenience as their odds were close and hence my hedging bet (on Higgins) was of similar size to my inaccessible £600 BetWay 'cash'.

BTW BetWay were offering slightly inferior odds of 19/20 on Higgins, so their refusal to take my hedging bet on him actually worked in my favour.

 

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You don't hang about, do you? It says you're supposed to bet £800 to liberate the bonus (if you kept winning)  which is not great but the kicker is the very last term about reserving the right to only pay out 6x the bonus*. Having seen that I really wouldn't suggest laying a large bet to try secure 90% of the money. If you won again and paid out the money from your lay bet you could be well out of pocket. That's a pretty shit sign up deal and wouldn't work for a matched bettor. Too much chance of winning and not getting your money. 

I knew nothing about betting 6 months ago - and still don't know much but this matched betting lark is a profitable hobby.

 

I make it that you put in £200 (£100 in Lads and Betway) and so far have £775 and £600 in Betway, total £1375.

If Murphy wins you'll have £1110 in betway and £275 left in Lads - £1385

If Higgins wins you'll have £1275 in Lads

I had a look at the info on the subscription service I use and it looks like Betway were recently doing a smaller, simpler sign-up offer. To be honest their tactic is not unusual and stops scabs like Rave and I ripping them off so they can rip off their punters. Providing they stick to what they've told you, you should be ok. In which case you could have laid rather than dutched for slightly more profit but its neither here nor there, you've done handsomely anyway. 

 

I suggest you ask the mods to hide this thread till you get your money in your bank now. Walls have ears.

 

 

*although a matched betting acquaintance has suggested that term is unlawful in the UK, I wouldn't want to be the one to risk £600 trying to find out.

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22 hours ago, The Spaniard said:

A few days ago I bet £100 with BetWay, Trump to win at 2/1.

I did this because the BetWay offer to new customers was a 100% free bet up to £100, which sounded good. I used my ‘free bet’ to double up my original £100 bet. I now have a ‘cash balance’ of £600 with BetWay (£100 + £100 = £200 at 2/1).

The BetWay bet was in addition to my other Trump-to-win bets with Ladbrokes, PaddyPower and BetFred, all with enticing new customer deals. These three firms have all paid up, no problems.

Unfortunately I now find that I cannot withdraw ANY of the BetWay £600, I must re-cycle ALL of it through further bets, with the added condition of odds 7/4 or longer only. Yes, I should have read the pages of smallprint T&C. I was fooled by the attractive and seemingly clear headline offer.

A further BetWay restriction is that if, for example, I play roulette with it, only 8% (yes, just eight per cent) counts as a bet. This precludes my using the £600 to cover uniformly the roulette board for a guarenteed (and satisfactory) return of (36/37)x 600 = £583.78.

Thus I need to find a group of sporting events/bets, each bet at odds of 7/4 or longer, over which to distribute the £600, which would have a very high probablility of a return of (say) £300.

My only other option is to cancel the whole BetWay deal, get back just my original £100, and put it all down to experience. What was presented as an attractive marketing ploy to attract new business has turned out to be a complete alienation from BetWay, at least for this punter.

Any suggestions, please?

The way the world is going, I'd just put it all on Corbyn.

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Well done that man.

My experience with PaddyPower was dire. I opened an account, they restricted it for some reason so I couldn't use it, I wouldn't mind so much but my junk email count has doubled since that time. Perhaps they suspected that Trump would win.

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On 10 November 2016 at 3:53 PM, The Spaniard said:

Higgins the winner, all done and dusted, winnings withdrawn.

Thanks to all for your advice.

Glad you got it sorted in the end. You needed that commitment from Betway they would pay out if you won again otherwise your dutch would have gone horribly wrong. Betting on trump was hardly the sort of betting profile they would look for in bonus abusers so you were ok.

Latest iteration of their sign up offer looks to have dropped the limited payout term so its probably safe again. Still got the same rollover requirement but the wagering is less in general. 

@Bruce Banner lots of possible reasons for the PP restriction. If you were serious, I'm sure they could have been resolved. 

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