SJW meltdown

[canbuywontbuy]

7 hours ago, stormymonday_2011 said:

The law says otherwise

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/enacted

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Recognition_Act_2004

And the reality is sexual identity even at a physical and chromosonal level is not always obvious.

Jenni Murray is just another example of a comfortable, well fed, over paid  metropolitan media busy body who feels she has some sort of God given right to pass judgement on the rest of humanity. Well the bad news for her is she hasn't. The law states that those who have undergone gender reassignment are legally entitled to use the gender they have chosen . Moreover, their status is protected under the Equality Act 2010 which may explain why the BBC don't want her as an employee shooting her big mouth off on the subject. As her employer they might end up on the wrong end of a law suit.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/gender-reassignment-discrimination

What has she got against trans-gendered people? I agree with her if it's when someone arbitrarily decides "I'm a woman" without "walking the walk" (no surgeries, hormone treatments).  Clearly someone who is going through the regimen of surgery and hormone treatments ... they're not doing it for a laugh - what has got against such people (either way they transition)?

[canbuywontbuy]

15 hours ago, John51 said:

Here's a blog from a black American guy that was an English teacher there:

https://classic.dryang.org/japanese/teacher.html

Did you learn of Kancho while you were there?

It wasn't a "thing" when I was there (1999 to 2002), or maybe it was, but I wasn't a school teacher so....(kancho is a game where kids...poke their fingers in people's arses...yeah...).

[Frank Hovis]

19 minutes ago, canbuywontbuy said:

What has she got against trans-gendered people? I agree with her if it's when someone arbitrarily decides "I'm a woman" without "walking the walk" (no surgeries, hormone treatments).  Clearly someone who is going through the regimen of surgery and hormone treatments ... they're not doing it for a laugh - what has got against such people (either way they transition)?

Male privilege apparently.

You say arbitrarily but in lot of cases it is just that.  If someone has had all of the surgery and hormone treatment and so appears to be the other sex then they have a case.

But then you get "men" giving birth and yesterday a "woman" rapist.

And in the person I know adopting a woman's name and women's clothes but that's it.  If one morning they decide they've changed their mind then they can put their trousers on and go back to their old name.

So how are they a woman?  I don't see a difference between that and, say, my dressing up as a Cossack and demanding to have the company call me Boris and be recognised as a Cossack with exactly the same rights as all "cis" Cossacks.

[canbuywontbuy]

44 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Male privilege apparently.

You say arbitrarily but in lot of cases it is just that.  If someone has had all of the surgery and hormone treatment and so appears to be the other sex then they have a case.

But then you get "men" giving birth and yesterday a "woman" rapist.

And in the person I know adopting a woman's name and women's clothes but that's it.  If one morning they decide they've changed their mind then they can put their trousers on and go back to their old name.

So how are they a woman?  I don't see a difference between that and, say, my dressing up as a Cossack and demanding to have the company call me Boris and be recognised as a Cossack with exactly the same rights as all "cis" Cossacks.

I agree, and I made that distinction.  If people aren't going through procedures to physically transition, then just saying you're a woman doesn't make it so.

[stormymonday_2011]

1 hour ago, Frank Hovis said:

Male privilege apparently.

You say arbitrarily but in lot of cases it is just that.  If someone has had all of the surgery and hormone treatment and so appears to be the other sex then they have a case.

But then you get "men" giving birth and yesterday a "woman" rapist.

And in the person I know adopting a woman's name and women's clothes but that's it.  If one morning they decide they've changed their mind then they can put their trousers on and go back to their old name.

So how are they a woman?  I don't see a difference between that and, say, my dressing up as a Cossack and demanding to have the company call me Boris and be recognised as a Cossack with exactly the same rights as all "cis" Cossacks.

Quite agree but the law as it stands says otherwise

Gender reassignment is not quite as simple as personal choice. It is a formal two year  legal process of transition that has to be ratified by a Gender Recognition Panel. Normally proof is required of commitment to the new identity and that usually means  a bit more than just dressing up in women's clothing occasionally or wanting to be known as Samantha rather than Sam. Once a man has had his gender reassigned as a women then legally he is one in the eyes of the law even if the person then readopts a male persona. The same applies to women who have been reassigned as men The fact some people who have undergone  gender reassignment might turn out to be rapists or give birth is about as relevant to the status of transsexuals in law as the idea that because some homosexuals are involved in under age sex then all gays are child molesters and therefore should not have their sexual orientation protected by law.

 The status of transsexuals has been a subject of legal wrangling almost as long as modern feminism and the current law has been largely established by rulings at the European Court of Human Rights (which incidentally has nothing to do with the EU and whose status is unlikely to be changed by Brexit). This and the ancillary UK legislation in the Equality Act 2010 means that an employee of an organisation such as the BBC who claims that a person who has undergone legal gender reassignment .is not a real woman is potentially guilty of harassment and if their employer does nothing about that fact then they may also be deemed to be condoning such discrimination which would lay them open to legal action from any members of staff who have undergone gender reassignment. It is for this reason that the BBC are concerned about Jenni Murray using her status as a Woman Hour presenter to expound her views that people who have undergone gender reassignment from men to women are not truly  'women'. Feminists like Jenni Murray don't have the arbitrary right to decide peoples gender status than I do to insist that black people sit at the back of the bus. 

Ms Murray may be entitled to campaign for the law to be changed or to criticise aspects of its working but she needs to resign from her position at the BBC first before she undertakes that step,

Like so much that happens in the PC space the problem is that feminists like Murray want to have their cake and eat it. They are happy for anti discriminatory laws to protect women but do not want it impinging on their own pet prejudices which they feel they should be free to express. Unfortunately, that is not how the legal environment which they have done so much to help create over the last 50 years operates. 

  

 

[mikthe20]

Orwellian Newspeak. War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength, man is woman, free speech is intolerance.

Are there any transgenders in the U.K. that have converted to Islam and wear a burka? Would be fun to see reactions from lefties.

[Hail the Tripod]

28 minutes ago, stormymonday_2011 said:

Quite agree but the law as it stands says otherwise

Gender reassignment is not quite as simple as personal choice. It is a formal two year  legal process of transition that has to be ratified by a Gender Recognition Panel. Normally proof is required of commitment to the new identity and that usually means  a bit more than just dressing up in women's clothing occasionally or wanting to be known as Samantha rather than Sam. Once a man has had his gender reassigned as a women then legally he is one in the eyes of the law even if the person then readopts a male persona. The same applies to women who have been reassigned as men The fact some people who have undergone  gender reassignment might turn out to be rapists or give birth is about as relevant to the status of transsexuals in law as the idea that because some homosexuals are involved in under age sex then all gays are child molesters and therefore should not have their sexual orientation protected by law.

 The status of transsexuals has been a subject of legal wrangling almost as long as modern feminism and the current law has been largely established by rulings at the European Court of Human Rights (which incidentally has nothing to do with the EU and whose status is unlikely to be changed by Brexit). This and the ancillary UK legislation in the Equality Act 2010 means that an employee of an organisation such as the BBC who claims that a person who has undergone legal gender reassignment .is not a real woman is potentially guilty of harassment and if their employer does nothing about that fact then they may also be deemed to be condoning such discrimination which would lay them open to legal action from any members of staff who have undergone gender reassignment. It is for this reason that the BBC are concerned about Jenni Murray using her status as a Woman Hour presenter to expound her views that people who have undergone gender reassignment from men to women are not truly  'women'. Feminists like Jenni Murray don't have the arbitrary right to decide peoples gender status than I do to insist that black people sit at the back of the bus. 

Ms Murray may be entitled to campaign for the law to be changed or to criticise aspects of its working but she needs to resign from her position at the BBC first before she undertakes that step,

Like so much that happens in the PC space the problem is that feminists like Murray want to have their cake and eat it. They are happy for anti discriminatory laws to protect women but do not want it impinging on their own pet prejudices which they feel they should be free to express. Unfortunately, that is not how the legal environment which they have done so much to help create over the last 50 years operates. 

In what way does your legal status change by virtue of being a "woman"? 

I'm all for adults being entitled to do what they want with their "gender identity", and free from malicious interference from others. This whole push for the right to legally bully other people into pretending that their fantasy is unquestionable reality is deeply wrong.

[stormymonday_2011]

14 minutes ago, Hail the Tripod said:

In what way does your legal status change by virtue of being a "woman"? 

I'm all for adults being entitled to do what they want with their "gender identity", and free from malicious interference from others. This whole push for the right to legally bully other people into pretending that their fantasy is unquestionable reality is deeply wrong.

Your gender status is legally defined by your birth certificate,

People who undergo gender transition get a new birth certificate.

It really is as simple as that.

Thereafter where the law states that women or men have different status or obligations (as its still does on certain issues) then the gender on the new birth certificate applies

Whether this is right or wrong is not the point I am making.

I am merely stating that this is how the law applies and it effects feminists just as much as everyone else 

 

[Errol]

1 hour ago, canbuywontbuy said:

going through procedures to physically transition, then just saying you're a woman doesn't make it so.

Going through physical procedures doesn't make them a woman either. NOTHING makes them a woman if they were born a man and vice versa.

[Hail the Tripod]

Just now, stormymonday_2011 said:

Your gender status is legally defined by your birth certificate,

People who undergo gender transition get a new birth certificate.

It really is as simple as that.

Thereafter where the law states that women or men have different status or obligations (as its still does on certain issues) then the gender on the new birth certificate applies 

 

I was wondering what differences there are left in terms of specific rights and obligations.

[LC1]

25 minutes ago, mikthe20 said:

Are there any transgenders in the U.K. that have converted to Islam and wear a burka? Would be fun to see reactions from lefties.

[stormymonday_2011]

40 minutes ago, Hail the Tripod said:

I was wondering what differences there are left in terms of specific rights and obligations.

Not sure about the legal position but there is big difference in the length of prison sentences dished out by the courts to people of different genders for similar crimes.  Which jail you get sent to depends on your gender.

The main impact on gender historically has been on marriage, inheritance and property rights

Anyway I think the point I have been trying to make - which Jenni Murray has been demonstrating  - is that the more inequalities in society have been removed from law then the shriller certain people have become about their 'identity'. You would think that people be they black or white, male or female, Christian or Muslim would be happy simply to be treated as equal human beings before the law. Unfortunately the reality is that all of them think in some way that they are special and ought to be entitled to  some sort of unique status

[Hail the Tripod]

26 minutes ago, stormymonday_2011 said:

Not sure about the legal position but there is big difference in the length of prison sentences dished out by the courts to people of different genders for similar crimes. 

Which jail you get sent to depends on your gender.

The first one is not a legal principle just an example of institutional misandry.

The second point is entirely correct. There is also the area of professional sports, where sexual discrimination is still rigidly enforced. There's also state pension age, and arguably insurance costs. Any others?

[The Masked Tulip]

There was a documentary made many years ago which followed people having sex-change operations. A feminist female surgeon was quite keen on turning men into ladies. But it seems that the current bunch of media feminists are horrified, disgusted or threatened by this new wave of MTF transgender folk.

Perhaps, when the numbers were few, they were happy but now that it seems that every other bloke is becoming a woman they just don't like it. I suspect it has lots to do with BBC job policies and fears that MTF's will jump ahead of wimmin on the BBC career ladder?

[LiveinHope]

27 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

There was a documentary made many years ago which followed people having sex-change operations. A feminist female surgeon was quite keen on turning men into ladies. But it seems that the current bunch of media feminists are horrified, disgusted or threatened by this new wave of MTF transgender folk.

Perhaps, when the numbers were few, they were happy but now that it seems that every other bloke is becoming a woman they just don't like it. I suspect it has lots to do with BBC job policies and fears that MTF's will jump ahead of wimmin on the BBC career ladder?

Perhaps some feel that if you can't beat them you may as well join them.

[Frank Hovis]

1 hour ago, Hail the Tripod said:

I was wondering what differences there are left in terms of specific rights and obligations.

Where you are in with people over which you have a distinct physical advantage and that makes a big difference:

Women's sport and women's prisons.

[mikthe20]

45 minutes ago, LiveinHope said:

Perhaps some feel that if you can't beat them you may as well join them.

I was thinking the same. This dystopia was predicted some time ago by the BBC themselves:

[LC1]

Why are those three blacked up? I know it was the 70s, but even so...

[davidg]

French women are due to down tools today at 3.40 pm, they claim that due to a 26% pay gap they are not being paid after this time.

With all the free housework they do it is hardly worth them getting out of bed.

[wherebee]

2 hours ago, The Masked Tulip said:

There was a documentary made many years ago which followed people having sex-change operations. A feminist female surgeon was quite keen on turning men into ladies. But it seems that the current bunch of media feminists are horrified, disgusted or threatened by this new wave of MTF transgender folk.

Perhaps, when the numbers were few, they were happy but now that it seems that every other bloke is becoming a woman they just don't like it. I suspect it has lots to do with BBC job policies and fears that MTF's will jump ahead of wimmin on the BBC career ladder?

The rational choice for men would be to have themselves re-identified as women, and ideally also a minority.  Many businesses - and I know this from my past - have informal or formal targets on diversity which means that of two candidates, a minority/woman/LGBT gains an advantage.

[Austin Allegro]

6 hours ago, The Masked Tulip said:

There was a documentary made many years ago which followed people having sex-change operations. A feminist female surgeon was quite keen on turning men into ladies. But it seems that the current bunch of media feminists are horrified, disgusted or threatened by this new wave of MTF transgender folk.

Perhaps, when the numbers were few, they were happy but now that it seems that every other bloke is becoming a woman they just don't like it. I suspect it has lots to do with BBC job policies and fears that MTF's will jump ahead of wimmin on the BBC career ladder?

As I understand it, some feminists don't like trannies because they see them as a sort of parody of women, in the same way that some black people might get upset by people claiming they are black because they use a lot of brown makeup and have their hair permed (cf the Rachel Dolezal scandal in the US). It makes a mockery of 'real' women, and if 'gender' is not something innate but something that can be changed at will, it raises all sorts of dangerous questions about female entitlement. 

[stormymonday_2011]

1 hour ago, Austin Allegro said:

As I understand it, some feminists don't like trannies because they see them as a sort of parody of women, in the same way that some black people might get upset by people claiming they are black because they use a lot of brown makeup and have their hair permed (cf the Rachel Dolezal scandal in the US). It makes a mockery of 'real' women, and if 'gender' is not something innate but something that can be changed at will, it raises all sorts of dangerous questions about female entitlement. 

It is not all blokes who decide to become women. 

There are women who reassign as men.

http://www.oddee.com/item_98038.aspx

There are also people who are born with indeterminate physical sexual characteristics who have to choose to adopt one sex or another.

In addition there are children who for various reasons are brought up by their parents as one sex even though they physically belong to another. They have been socially conditioned to belong to one sex even though they are in reality members of another.

Many of these people are not parodying men or women. Nor are they making lifestyle choices. They have for often had to choose a gender or had one stuck on them.

I can't imagine changing gender is a matter to be taken lightly given social attitudes and it is a bit rich certain feminists claiming transexuals are simply stealing their frocks.

Strangely having had to deal with this issue in the work place on one occasion as a union representative my experience was generally that the blokes in the office while bemused by people making such choices were actually more tolerant than the women.

Make of that what you will.

[wherebee]

I want to be a Duck.  Is that allowed?

 

[Wahoo]

XX   Woman

XY   Man

XXY  You decide as an individual.

(The rest is how you feel and hence  a mental health issue)

Enough said.   

[Hail the Tripod]

35 minutes ago, Wahoo said:

XX   Woman

XY   Man

XXY  You decide as an individual.

(The rest is how you feel and hence  a mental health issue)

Enough said.   

There are people who even though genetically they are standard XY they present as women because, either their bodies failed to produce testosterone, or failed to react to it's presence. It's rare but it happens.