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8pm tonight - Channel 4 Dispatches: Britain's Home Building Scandal

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2 minutes ago, frederico said:

Who was that old bloke at the beginning? He seemed to be on the right page.

Think he was from London School of Economics.

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44 minutes ago, Tapori said:

Ripping builders and land bankers but probably won't touch BTL-Hoarding.

It was as you have predicted!  However, the sad part about current house price situation is that there are numerous easy ways to solve it, and stopping land-banking is a perfectly plausible way. 

Let's consider various solutions to our house price problem: stop land-banking, remove easy credit, remove various help to sell initiatives, de-restrict planning, build council houses, stop BTL.

I believe that if any of the above proposals were taken seriously and carried out to conclusion, they will amplify the effects of each other and the overall effect will be broadly the same.   For example, if developers are forced to build, prices will fall.  BTL will be unprofitable, there will be no need for help to sell and easy credit. etc

High house prices are not a stable equilibrium state, we are only here because of the organised attempts by landlords and landowners to protect their wealth.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Bear Hug

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1 hour ago, Patient London FTB said:

Paul Cheshire. This paper of his on the planning system, 'Turning Houses Into Gold', is well worth a read. 

I agree that it was an interesting read. The chart comparing house prices rising significantly more than art goes to explain why they have been seen as an investment asset class for those looking for somewhere to park their millions, rather than as places for people to live.

Also, I'm glad that at the end of the program, the presenter mentioned that the building industry gives money to the government, and its lobbying. So no surprise politicians being as much a crooked part of it as anyone and making money out of this too.

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I felt the program focussed too much on the 'land banking' but maybe that was their remit.

No-one mentioned the elephant(s) in the room - ridiculous low interest rates and easy credit and increased immigration leading to more demand.  There is no point increasing supply if the demand side (whether BTL investors or increased population) is not tackled. 

Furthermore, I imagine those who hold property or are already on the so-called 'ladder' will be squealing to the skies if house prices did fall (which is what needs to happen as the end-game)

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46 minutes ago, olliegog said:

I felt the program focussed too much on the 'land banking' but maybe that was their remit.

No-one mentioned the elephant(s) in the room - ridiculous low interest rates and easy credit and increased immigration leading to more demand.  There is no point increasing supply if the demand side (whether BTL investors or increased population) is not tackled. 

Furthermore, I imagine those who hold property or are already on the so-called 'ladder' will be squealing to the skies if house prices did fall (which is what needs to happen as the end-game)

As it was made for C4 so you knew they'd avoid the ugly truth, cheap easy lending hiding behind supply and demand. It is beyond idiocy to believe that building more would reduce housing costs by fifty percent. If Rolls Royce built twice as many cars they'd half the price. Builders should be getting planning permission to build on sites that the market can afford, not in areas of high HPI. Building yet more homes in existing areas of high prices will naturally constrain supply, no one can afford to buy them. Land banks need to be swapped for greenfield sites that the public can afford to buy into.

Edited by Blod

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1 hour ago, Blod said:

As it was made for C4 so you knew they'd avoid the ugly truth, cheap easy lending hiding behind supply and demand. It is beyond idiocy to believe that building more would reduce housing costs by fifty percent. If Rolls Royce built twice as many cars they'd half the price. Builders should be getting planning permission to build on sites that the market can afford, not in areas of high HPI. Building yet more homes in existing areas of high prices will naturally constrain supply, no one can afford to buy them. Land banks need to be swapped for greenfield sites that the public can afford to buy into.

I think the title "Britain's Home Building Scandal" gave the game away on that front.

The assumption surely being that the lack of building has contributed to the wider crisis.

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32 minutes ago, Futuroid said:

I think the title "Britain's Home Building Scandal" gave the game away on that front.

The assumption surely being that the lack of building has contributed to the wider crisis.

The crisis is the price, end of. The couple featured didn't mention new homes once, in fact their complaint was the price. If it had been the cost of fuel rather than shelter being discussed ways to reduce costs would have been centre stage. Building currently won't solve that for them, only a HPC.

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1 minute ago, Blod said:

The crisis is the price, end of. The couple featured didn't mention new homes once, in fact their complaint was the price. If it had been the cost of fuel rather than shelter being discussed ways to reduce costs would have been centre stage. Building currently won't solve that for them, only a HPC.

If governments over the years have encouraged millions of extra people into the UK to help improve our growth, tax take, gdp they have to provide for them.....where do they expect people to live? in bedsit mso's.....it also builds up resentments in people who if had been born 20 years earlier would be on the way to paying for a home of their own....many young people without having help today have no chance..... governments don't seem to care.....does not make for a contented integrated society......;)

It is both supply and demand......low supply high demand helps keep prices high, notwithstanding all the homes taken out of the owner occupier market due to people snapping them up for investment purposes, so more people  holding more than one property and thousands more unable to purchase one.

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2 hours ago, winkie said:

If governments over the years have encouraged millions of extra people into the UK to help improve our growth, tax take, gdp they have to provide for them.....where do they expect people to live? in bedsit mso's.....it also builds up resentments in people who if had been born 20 years earlier would be on the way to paying for a home of their own....many young people without having help today have no chance..... governments don't seem to care.....does not make for a contented integrated society......;)

It is both supply and demand......low supply high demand helps keep prices high, notwithstanding all the homes taken out of the owner occupier market due to people snapping them up for investment purposes, so more people  holding more than one property and thousands more unable to purchase one.

It's the immigrants init' :rolleyes:

From the ONS: http://visual.ons.gov.uk/uk-perspectives-housing-and-home-ownership-in-the-uk/

Housing_and_home_ownership_in_the_UK___Visual_ONS.png

Was there a huge influx of immigrants in 1995? In 2000? In 1988? Nope.

Immigration is at worst a contributory factor, it's contribution on a par with the rise of the singleton and lengthening lifespans. 

Lack of housebuilding? Check.

Lack of council accommodation forcing tenants into the private sector? Check

Residential property as an asset class? Check

Ultra-low interest rates encouraging property speculation (see above) and also allowing ludicrous earnings multiples? Check.

 

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Should have been called "Britains' home building cartel"

All it did was put forward known issues at hand (and poorly mind), played the sad violin a bit with the "successful" couple living with parents, and proposed zero solutions.

What politician is going to impinge the success of builder raking in £650m profits annually?

Certainly not union busting Javid with his big business and banking pedigree.

Desirable and affordable housing is not a right, get it?

Waste of time.

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No doubt about it growing movement of people both from overseas and also from people moving into or near large towns from other parts of the UK mainly for work......I know because I have seen the changes, the growing numbers not hard to see....but a greater number of people living in smaller spaces is only one factor of consequences of lack of housing to buy, growing numbers of people who have no other choice but to rent a room or a box and high prices way out of kilter to local wages. ;)

Edited by winkie

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16 minutes ago, winkie said:

No doubt about it growing movement of people both from overseas and also from people moving into or near large towns from other parts of the UK mainly for work......I know because I have seen the changes, the growing numbers not hard to see....but a greater number of people living in smaller spaces is only one factor of consequences of lack of housing to buy, growing numbers of people who have no other choice but to rent a room or a box and high prices way out of kilter to local wages. ;)

Blame it on the Boogie, 2016 edition by winkie.

Don't blame it on the sunshine ultra-low IRs
Don't blame it on the moonlight BTL
Don't blame it on the good times right to buy & lack of building
Blame it on the boogie immigrants

 

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2 hours ago, winkie said:

If governments over the years have encouraged millions of extra people into the UK to help improve our growth, tax take, gdp they have to provide for them.....where do they expect people to live? in bedsit mso's.....it also builds up resentments in people who if had been born 20 years earlier would be on the way to paying for a home of their own....many young people without having help today have no chance..... governments don't seem to care.....does not make for a contented integrated society......;)

It is both supply and demand......low supply high demand helps keep prices high, notwithstanding all the homes taken out of the owner occupier market due to people snapping them up for investment purposes, so more people  holding more than one property and thousands more unable to purchase one.

We only have to look over the Irish Sea to see how that despite there being no increase in demand Ireland had it's own housing boom and subsequent bust. That bust was correctly attributed to the tightening of lending as a result of the financial crash. Migration though it does have some effect contributes only a tiny amount to price pressure compared to the pricing of credit. The difficulty with mentioning its effect is that it detracts from the real issue in the same manner the the red herring of building does. 

These side issues are useful to the vested interests as they distract the publics focus from the real issue. Excessively cheap credit. allowing bank to cream off ever larger profits from mortgages.

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4 minutes ago, Futuroid said:

Blame it on the Boogie, 2016 edition by winkie.

Don't blame it on the sunshine ultra-low IRs
Don't blame it on the moonlight BTL
Don't blame it on the good times right to buy & lack of building
Blame it on the boogie immigrants

 

Not blaming it on people who move to places to 'better themslves'...as I have already said there are many reasons why there is not as much available housing to buy for normal local working people in many places....if you encourage it, should provide for it, else everyone feels the impact. ;)

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6 minutes ago, Futuroid said:

Blame it on the Boogie, 2016 edition by winkie.

Don't blame it on the sunshine ultra-low IRs
Don't blame it on the moonlight BTL
Don't blame it on the good times right to buy & lack of building
Blame it on the boogie immigrants

You're being distracted by the use of the term 'immigrants', when in reality its simply an unwillingness of central government to admit though numbers are increasing they're avoiding making allowances for them.

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24 minutes ago, Blod said:

We only have to look over the Irish Sea to see how that despite there being no increase in demand Ireland had it's own housing boom and subsequent bust. That bust was correctly attributed to the tightening of lending as a result of the financial crash. Migration though it does have some effect contributes only a tiny amount to price pressure compared to the pricing of credit. The difficulty with mentioning its effect is that it detracts from the real issue in the same manner the the red herring of building does. 

These side issues are useful to the vested interests as they distract the publics focus from the real issue. Excessively cheap credit. allowing bank to cream off ever larger profits from mortgages.

Of course easy credit has pushed prices up......lend me a million I can buy a house or two for a million pound of debt IO......

When whole roads used to be FTB family OO and now BTL.....they have become BTL because normal working people can no longer afford to buy them, renters job is my pension, no longer sell just buy another......so BTL has helped to provide for a need for the growing demand, the demand for growing numbers of people that require housing... these homes have been taken out of the FTBs market and not enough homes built to replace them that people can afford to buy.....;)

Edited by winkie

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