GreenDevil Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Who is to blame for the current economic mess. Bankers and politicians seem equally despised on HPC. Personally I think the politicians are more on the ship with a broken rudder, rather than actually leading the way. Vote and discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XswampyX Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 You could blame the bankers, but really what did anyone expect. Yep the wolf slaughtered all my lambs, I knew I should have put him in a cage. You could blame the politicians, but if they want to get elected then what are they supposed to do? Crash house prices, kill the economy stone dead and remove all benefits?  Vote for me! We have to blame ourselves. Not myself, but all of you. You all borrowed the money and you all voted in the politicians. Can you add that to the poll.... Ourselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80sBaby Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, GreenDevil said: Who is to blame for the current economic mess. Bankers and politicians seem equally despised on HPC. Personally I think the politicians are more on the ship with a broken rudder, rather than actually leading the way. Vote and discuss. As a Banker, I'll confess my bias now! Governments set rules and people obey those rules (or else..). Light touch, various mismanagement of the economy led to the current mess. Truth be told, tax laws need to be fixed too! Corp taxation is a joke. Banker who break the rules can go to jail just like everyone else! Edited October 27, 2016 by 80sBaby Typos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynardgravy Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Physicists used to think space and time were separate entities.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDevil Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 18 minutes ago, XswampyX said: We have to blame ourselves. Not myself, but all of you. You all borrowed the money and you all voted in the politicians. Can you add that to the poll.... Ourselves? Do we have a choice though when we vote? The bankers caused the 2009 crash with their greed, and since the we have been paying the price with zirp and asset bubbles. Certainly in recent times the bankers are more influential in what the do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XswampyX Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 1 minute ago, GreenDevil said: Do we have a choice though when we vote? I know what you mean, but Brexit was never a thing until somebody saw the appetite for it and created the politicians to vote for. They (the politicians) will be created for us whatever type we want. You run next time on the basis of 8% interest rates, massive austerity, stopping tax credits and huge benefit reductions. Count your vote (1). There's your answer. We do have a choice, nobody runs on 'what needs to be done' because nobody will vote for them. So there's no point serving a steaming pile of $hit at an all you can eat buffet, because nobody is going to eat it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Politicians could start fixing this tomorrow if they wanted to. Reprivatise the banks, scrap the house price props, sack Carney and replace him with somebody who cares about what happens outside of the Square Mile. If the banks crash again impose haircuts on the shareholders and bondholders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John The Pessimist Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Swampy answered this in his original op. We are all to blame. We get the politicians we deserve, they truly are representative of the people. We ( the collective) have voted to rape the treasury and to pillage our children's future for short term gain. Here on HPC we pride ourselves on our insight and understanding. With a few notable exceptions (hat-tip CoNW & Killerbunny), we have wrung our hands on the sidelines and done nothing. We can't even claim ignorance as a defence, because we knew better and did nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canbuywontbuy Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 43 minutes ago, John The Pessimist said: Swampy answered this in his original op. We are all to blame. We get the politicians we deserve, they truly are representative of the people. We ( the collective) have voted to rape the treasury and to pillage our children's future for short term gain. Here on HPC we pride ourselves on our insight and understanding. With a few notable exceptions (hat-tip CoNW & Killerbunny), we have wrung our hands on the sidelines and done nothing. We can't even claim ignorance as a defence, because we knew better and did nothing. What would you suggest we do? Sign e-petitions? Lobby the local MP? I remember emailing my local MP 5 or 6 times on the housing market - boiler plate replies, nothing done. Please don't say "vote for the opposition" - they're all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 45 minutes ago, John The Pessimist said: Swampy answered this in his original op. We are all to blame. We get the politicians we deserve, they truly are representative of the people. We ( the collective) have voted to rape the treasury and to pillage our children's future for short term gain. Here on HPC we pride ourselves on our insight and understanding. With a few notable exceptions (hat-tip CoNW & Killerbunny), we have wrung our hands on the sidelines and done nothing. We can't even claim ignorance as a defence, because we knew better and did nothing. Agreed.  So much looking for scapegoats.  It's the people as a whole.  Although I've refused to participate by taking on higher levels of mortgage debt to buy a house, in a housing market.  A market.  That's doing something.  I'm not carrying another bailout for 'the innocent owners' as per 2009+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canbuywontbuy Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 If the only thing we can do is not participate, then I've done all I can do (I've emigrated now, not paying a penny to a landlord, nor a penny to a mortgage lender). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80sBaby Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 6 hours ago, Dorkins said: Politicians could start fixing this tomorrow if they wanted to. Reprivatise the banks, scrap the house price props, sack Carney and replace him with somebody who cares about what happens outside of the Square Mile. If the banks crash again impose haircuts on the shareholders and bondholders. +1. Few entities are still with us which shouldn't. Few people I know argue, the alternative of full blown banking crisis and rampant unemployment was unthinkable. I think the problem of cheap money is now wreaking havoc on asset prices and we can seem to survive without cheap money.....which is plainly insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Missed off....Us, the general public. Â We're ultimately to blame as we believe the B.S. and let them get away with their thievery and oppression Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpewLabour Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Politicians. Should have let the bad banks go under in 2008. Instead they got rewarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkmarket Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 All in it together I'd say, borrowers, lenders and politicians. Mostly agree with Grumpysod's analysis, plus the bailouts proved the banking system has the government in a checkmate, nobody gets elected on a promise to crash the economy, even if the alternative is worse. I wouldn't quite say voters though, there's no realistic alternative to the consensus that props it all up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I don't buy this "we, the people, get what we deserve and are ultimately to blame" line. Collective punishment is a favourite tool of tyrants and occupying enemies. You can only control your own actions and make your own choices. What your idiot neighbours decide to do is up to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDevil Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 There is no ,ourselves, because I can't see that I'm anyway responsible for the ecomonic mess. There is no choice at the ballot box. The politician's are squabbling over how to spend a small % of what they can. The don't really have a clue economically or morally. Like a ship drifting aimlessly on nthe oicean with no rudder, insignificant. The bankers are just scum in it for themselves. There the manipulators of asset bubbles who should have an idea of effective ecomonic policy. They don't. The politicians may be to blame, but in my eyes they mean well (some of them) but are clueless. Bankers however are crooks so get my vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dropbear Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I blame our first-past-the-post system of election. We have no voice in parliament apart from the status quo - Innovative partys cannot get in because of this antiquated system. Another huge problem is that our term of office lasts only 5 years. That means the government cannot administer the tough medicine required to get out of this mess in the long-term without being being punished at the next election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) tyranny by the majority...we were warned by the American founding fathers...we have learned nothing. Edited October 29, 2016 by Wayward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashinmattress Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 The voting electorate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromage Frais Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) I would say ourselves... but I voted conservative to bring down the housing bubble and return economic order or at least more. it started off ok but then they gave up and went full extend and pretend... from no money left note > we have money left to do HTB So I blame politicians Honestly if a bunch of people on a web forum like house price crash can predict a economic crisis and professional geniuses with access to all the information cannot it means they chose to do it. We live in a time where responsibility and sacrifice are maligned whomever saves the long term future of the country by taking the pain is going to be moaned about by Guardian readers for the next 40 years. Edited October 28, 2016 by Fromage Frais Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frugal Git Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) Everyone. Thanks though, it's made me who I am today. A cynical, but extremely content person who's developed resilience. A much more fulfilling life soul wise in many ways then what I'd have been doing under a 'fair' system.  Edited October 28, 2016 by Frugal Git Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 13 minutes ago, Frugal Git said: Everyone. Thanks though, it's made me who I am today. A cynical, but extremely content person who's developed resilience. A much more fulfilling life soul wise in many ways then what I'd have been doing under a 'fair' system.  I agree that being knocked back a bit makes you a better person. Many of those who benefited from the longest period of economic growth in history have ended up with an atrophied empathy gland as a consequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noallegiance Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 3 minutes ago, hotairmail said:  The first past the post voting system that pulls two main electable parties to fight over the same identical ground in the 'centre' where most votes are to be found so they end up looking exactly like each other with very minor and exaggerated differences.  This means people have no real democratic choice. Anyone but the two main parties cannot break through because they have successfully built up their own client sections of society and in the media...even though the reds and blues are virtually identical. So you might as well vote for the party who least annoys you/promises to give you most sweeties election by election.  With regard to shelter, as we're now finding with education, a shortage of homes (or higher end jobs) means you effectively have no choice but to pay the price.  So I don't blame 'ourselves' primarily.   In fact these systems all cause us to question whether anyone is to blame as such or whether they are just cause people to make rational, selfish decisions as Adam Smith would want us to, we are as a group being human and predictable.  I think perhaps the key is then, how do we stop the rule makers from being infected by vested interests, their own and corporates etc. such that they make good, independent rules focusing very much on desired outcomes for the economy and society as a whole....not just "getting away with it".  A republic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janch Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 18 minutes ago, hotairmail said: I think perhaps the key is then, how do we stop the rule makers from being infected by vested interests, their own and corporates etc. such that they make good, independent rules focusing very much on desired outcomes for the economy and society as a whole....not just "getting away with it".  To do this we have to get rid of the selfish greed gene so that everyone thinks of the common good before putting themselves first. We seem to be going in the opposite direction and people are turning into psychopaths out to shaft each other. Nature has a habit of causing crashes in populations which get out of control and we are not immune so there will be some unforseeable event which keeps the world population at a sustainable level or we will become extinct as a species. Either way the planet will survive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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