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Friends Buy House In 2 Hours.

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I was chatting to a couple at the weekend. They got married last year and like many of us are desperate to buy their own house, to live in, presumably to have a family in. He's a teacher and she works in tourism. Anyway on the evening out they happily announced that they had made an offer on a house outside Cheltenham and everybody duly congratulated them, as if they had accomplished an achievement to be proud of.

Anyway I chatted to they guy and discovered that they saw the hose on Saturday afternoon and liked it. However instead of exploiting their strong position as FTBs in a buyer's market, of which he seemed to have no appreciation, he asked the EA what offer the sellers might accept. Well I'm sure you can guess what the answer was. The EA told them there was another potential buyer who was very keen to buy and was returning on Monday. Any offer less than the asking price, or delay in making an offer, was almost certainly going to lose them the house. So two hours later they put in their offer. If they go ahead they will be committed to a 25 year mortgage on an asset that they have bought at the top of the market.

My reason for writing this is to make two points. Firstly they do not follow the market and are not speculating. They just want a home to live in. Maybe that is why (if you believe it) FTBs are returning to the market now that prices are slightly more affordable. Secondly, what on earth do you say to people like this who you want to warn but are rejoicing in what they have just done.

Incidentally the house is £185,000. He probably earns around £25,000 as a teacher and she is on less than £20k. What kind of mortgage are they going to arrange?

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Incidentally the house is £185,000. He probably earns around £25,000 as a teacher and she is on less than £20k. What kind of mortgage are they going to arrange?

Very ouch. Probably did more research into buying a car than buying a house. :(

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It can hardly be called FTBs re-entering the market. Two thirds of the population earn under 19k and in 1999 I knew a girl on 11k who bought a flat for 42k in the South East ('market value' would now be arolund 125k).

So if you want the same percentage of FTBs as a few years ago, the market has some way to fall, even allowing for nutbag lending practices.

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My partner and I earn similar money. After knocking off a bit of child maintenance and small student loan & credit card (£1500 on each, me only), we qualify for a mortgage of circa £155k with Nationwide, who use affordability rather than incomes multiple. Maybe better finances than us, it's either that or big deposit or interest only. If they fix for 25 years (Leeds & Holbeck or Cheshire) it could be worse.

I'm afraid there will be a number of FTB like this. When I moved back down south after renting in Bradford, we stayed at my Mother in Laws. After a couple of years her untidiness drove us mad and we bought a house just to get out. That however was in 1997, when, according to the Nationwide, real house prices were at pretty much the bottom of the cycle. We didn't have a clue about this at the time: I've only found out within the past 12 months, one separation later, when I want to buy another house. Unfortunately the market has moved on since then.

What to say? - Good luck in your new home??? (Depends how much you like them!)

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Talking to my financial advisor friend he tells me most

FTBs are buying using IOM.

Am I dreaming but houses are going down are'nt they ?

Bloody vested interests sending more lambs to the

slaughter.

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Incidentally the house is £185,000. He probably earns around £25,000 as a teacher and she is on less than £20k. What kind of mortgage are they going to arrange?

I don't know, but when I put in an offer for a house, I'd already found out how much I could borrow. Presumably the kind of mortgage they are going to arrange is the one they've already enquired about on the basis of their salaries - so why not ask them? Surely they wouldn't have put in an offer without having got some sort of provisional figure for what they can borrow?

I'd say £25K is low for a guess at a teacher's salary, unless he's just started. From what I hear from friends that are teachers, a more typical figure would be 30-40K, and more if they are head of department. Could be wrong though.

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Nationwide, who use affordability rather than incomes multiple.

Oh those dirty bastards. At least income multiples were in some remote way fact based ( despite widespread 'fraud' ) but this method is an open gate to make up your numbers out of thin air.

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I don't know, but when I put in an offer for a house, I'd already found out how much I could borrow. Presumably the kind of mortgage they are going to arrange is the one they've already enquired about on the basis of their salaries - so why not ask them? Surely they wouldn't have put in an offer without having got some sort of provisional figure for what they can borrow?

I'd say £25K is low for a guess at a teacher's salary, unless he's just started. From what I hear from friends that are teachers, a more typical figure would be 30-40K, and more if they are head of department. Could be wrong though.

My ex is a college lecturer, on <25K and she's been doing it 3 years.

My cousin is a teacher for a primary school. She's been doing this about 8 years and

probably just earns that!

25K sounds about right for the average teacher. Uni lecturers can command a good salary though.

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My ex is a college lecturer, on <25K and she's been doing it 3 years.

My cousin is a teacher for a primary school. She's been doing this about 8 years and

probably just earns that!

25K sounds about right for the average teacher. Uni lecturers can command a good salary though.

Yup, I think college lecturers and primary school teachers earn less. There has been a BIG boost to secondary school teacher salaries specifically over the last 5 years from what I hear (from a friend in the civil service). I knew a head of English on 45K, and that was a couple of years ago.

Not sure about uni lecturers. But sadly college lecturers seem to be the poor relations of the teaching profession in a lot of cases. I'm guessing, but I think the reason is that they have not been the focus of recent government initiatives like secondary teaching has been.

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Yup, I think college lecturers and primary school teachers earn less. There has been a BIG boost to secondary school teacher salaries specifically over the last 5 years from what I hear (from a friend in the civil service). I knew a head of English on 45K, and that was a couple of years ago.

Not sure about uni lecturers. But sadly college lecturers seem to be the poor relations of the teaching profession in a lot of cases. I'm guessing, but I think the reason is that they have not been the focus of recent government initiatives like secondary teaching has been.

From what I understand college lecturers don't have to have any teaching qualification - I did a free course learning web design/html etc a few years ago - one of my neighbours asked me to teach her and next thing I knew she was teaching it at the local college (she'd picked it up quite well but was in no way competent to teach it in my opinion) And another friend of mine got taken on to teach GIS (which she has a masters in from Edin Uni) at college in Inverness. Now she would be great at teaching in my opinion - before she started she structured her course setting outcomes, lesson plans etc but she didn't have to have a qualification like teachers in schools do..

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Guest magnoliawalls

Yup, I think college lecturers and primary school teachers earn less. There has been a BIG boost to secondary school teacher salaries specifically over the last 5 years from what I hear (from a friend in the civil service). I knew a head of English on 45K, and that was a couple of years ago.

Not sure about uni lecturers. But sadly college lecturers seem to be the poor relations of the teaching profession in a lot of cases. I'm guessing, but I think the reason is that they have not been the focus of recent government initiatives like secondary teaching has been.

The reason is that working as a college lecturer is usually more enjoyable and the qualifications needed seem to be lower. Secondary teachers have to cope with special needs children in the classroom (inclusion policies mean disruptive autistic and aspergers children are placed in normal schools), they have to face abusive teenagers (verbal and physical - being shouted at, spat on, attacked with a chair etc.). A few of my friends work as secondary teachers in comprehensives, and I would not take that job if it paid three times as much.

Re. the original post, most normal people do not see buying a house as a financial investment, rather they see it as a rite of passage like getting married. Existing homeowners, with the best of intentions, advise that it is always hard when you are starting out and rejoice that you have joined them as respectable, settled owner occupiers.

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I don't know, but when I put in an offer for a house, I'd already found out how much I could borrow. Presumably the kind of mortgage they are going to arrange is the one they've already enquired about on the basis of their salaries - so why not ask them? Surely they wouldn't have put in an offer without having got some sort of provisional figure for what they can borrow?

I'd say £25K is low for a guess at a teacher's salary, unless he's just started. From what I hear from friends that are teachers, a more typical figure would be 30-40K, and more if they are head of department. Could be wrong though.

My wife used to be clerk to the governers. The head of our local primary school earns 32k.

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My wife used to be clerk to the governers. The head of our local primary school earns 32k.

Yup, again, I think primary education has not been under the intense spotlight of government efforts to boost it in the same way secondary education has. I don't think primary teachers ever became short in supply due to things like discipline problems etc. I think the government was specifically aiming at trying to improve recruitment and retention in secondary education, and part of the initiative was to pay promoted and heads of departments there a lot more. As for the actual head of a secondary school, I think you're talking more like 70-100K.

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Snip

25K sounds about right for the average teacher. Uni lecturers can command a good salary though.

Hey: that's my old job!

The comment on salary is so wrong. Out of all the teaching professions mentioned on this thread, Uni lecturer jobs are:

- the hardest to get (dead man's shoes writ large plus spending cuts = no new positions and no one moving on)

- the worst paid (if you're breaking 30k you're on a winner and it's a long, long gap between promos)

- the hardest to keep (teaching and researching is rated to the third decimal place)

- the shortest term (no tenure anymore: 2 year posts, anyone?)

- the worst thought of (c.f. those saints the school teachers, lecturers are all bearded layabouts who play bowls on the college lawn and host one tutorial a week aren't they?)

- not key worker positions (no cheap flat in Battersea overlooking the river for you)

- the most full time (experiments that go over the weekend and into the night and you get the basic civil service holidays (6 weeks pa is admittedly not bad, but a lot worse than a teacher's))

- the worst for your health (lab scientists live 7 years less than the general population, and when you've handled as many HIV + radioactive serum samples that have been diluted in a carcinogen as I have, you'll know why)

- the most prone to arbitrary relocation (when your professor decides he fancies moving to Bangor, the lab, and you, have to travel with)

This is why most trainee academics are either (i) women, or (ii) independently wealthy, or (iii) driven by a vocation (silly sods): science, and by extension university lecturing, is going back to being the hobby job it was in the days of the curious Victorian gentlemen in his conservatory.

Wonder why I changed careers...

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I was chatting to a couple at the weekend. They got married last year and like many of us are desperate to buy their own house, to live in, presumably to have a family in. He's a teacher and she works in tourism. Anyway on the evening out they happily announced that they had made an offer on a house outside Cheltenham and everybody duly congratulated them, as if they had accomplished an achievement to be proud of.

I know of a number of couples in similar situations. A friend of mine has just brought at 95K on a 20K salary, although he got his missus pregnant so in a way his hand was forced. Anyway think they may struggle as they are on a single wage with 4 times mortgage and babe due.

A bloke that I work with has just brought a 140K refurbished ex MOD house from a developer (fees paid, stamp duty paid, 5% deposit paid), hes on 18K a year and his girlfriend on 20 something K. Incidentially the developer was not accetpting offers due to 'incentives' avaliable, and the day he signed the papers they raised the asking price on all the remaining plots by 2K (which was the same day that the media had it slashed all over the front page that 'houses increase by £2000 quid this year', strange coincidence, no?).

Another friend of mine (recently married) is looking at the moment, he will definately buy as his other half really wants to, and there parents are fronting the deposit. His budget is 'around 150K', he earns about 20-22K and his other half about 16K.

All these are in the southwest (Devon and Somerset), none of them seem to think houses will do anything but rise. I have discussed this with a few of them but the 'houses always rise' mentailty remains.

On a side note, my G/F also really wants to buy (as do I), but I'm not prepared to commit until I see which way the market heads in the next 6 - 12 months. However, persuading other halfs of such a course of action is troublesome, to say the least! So I'm hoping for tangible falls in value this year...

But there are still FTB out there, willing to sink themselves up to the eyeballs in debt, coz 'rent is dead money'.

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My partner and I earn similar money. After knocking off a bit of child maintenance and small student loan & credit card (£1500 on each, me only), we qualify for a mortgage of circa £155k with Nationwide, who use affordability rather than incomes multiple.

It's interesting isn't it. Affordability is dependent on interest rates. To assume that rates will remain at their current historical lows has already been proven wrong as they have gone up 50% in the last 18 months. Who takes the risk? Not the Nationwide, that's for sure.

Talking to my financial advisor friend he tells me most

FTBs are buying using IOM.

Am I dreaming but houses are going down are'nt they ?

Bloody vested interests sending more lambs to the

slaughter.

Indeed what's the difference between IOM and renting?

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This is why most trainee academics are either (i) women, or (ii) independently wealthy, or (iii) driven by a vocation (silly sods): science, and by extension university lecturing, is going back to being the hobby job it was in the days of the curious Victorian gentlemen in his conservatory.

Spot on! I totally agree! That's fairly much a summary of why I packed it in too, about 10 years ago. The days of the journeyman academic living a middle path of moderate wealth are over. It's either a life of scraping and fighting for pennies, with no prospect of being able to provide security or stability for a spouse and family, or else you're doing the "second" job in the family with a spouse earning the main income. Other than that, as you say, it's for rich hobby seeking people.

In some ways, returning it to the realms of a hobby for the truly curious might be a good thing, from the point of view of inventiveness. After all, a lot of science is actually only good for hobbies (nothing wrong with hobbies). The importance of science to the economy is way over-rated in my opinion. Some of it is important for sure, but there are a whole lot of academics producing work that is absolutely fascinating from an intellectual point of view, but absolutely worthless in an economic point of view. Note - I'm a big fan of things that have only intellectual worth, so I'm not criticising for what it is, but the money that is pumped into this sort of thing on the basis that it is "important for the economy" is, in my view, in need of justification.

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It's interesting isn't it. Affordability is dependent on interest rates. To assume that rates will remain at their current historical lows has already been proven wrong as they have gone up 50% in the last 18 months. Who takes the risk? Not the Nationwide, that's for sure.

Indeed what's the difference between IOM and renting?

Yes, but REAL affordability is affected by income tax and council tax, fuel and heating prices, food prices, all of which are rising steadily.

And real incomes after inflation which are falling.

Over the next few years I confidently expect the overall cost of living in the UK to rise substantially, in addition to interest rates rising and job insecurity pinning down wage increases. These FTBs may be able to afford to borrow this amount now, but after a fews years may well find the financial strain too much.

I remain bemused by the amount of money that people on relatively small salaries in occuptations/professions which tend not to provide rapid income appreciation are willing/able to borrow.

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Getting back to the subject, I have just heard that two more frields both mid-20s are buying flats right now. Onee of them knows my views and has even seen this forum. I don't know what makes some people tick. It is financial suicide, especially considering that they are oth going for flats!

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Hey: that's my old job!

The comment on salary is so wrong. Out of all the teaching professions mentioned on this thread, Uni lecturer jobs are:

The comments are right from my ancedotal evidence - my ex girlfriend and her 2 friends who

both do the same job(lecturers), as well as my mate who was a lecturer at Manchester Uni and cousin a primary school teacher.

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It is financial suicide

Still, look on the bright side. If these noble folks voluntarily remove themselves from the housing gene pool by tieing themselves into 25 year mortgages on starter homes, there should be a lot of reasonably priced family housing available for us survivors to buy at knock down prices.

Perhaps we should hold a HPC "Darwin Awards" ceremony for those who commit financial suicide in the most spectacular way. Has anybody lied to buy a £250,000 Manchester flat with 2 x actual income claimed and a £50,000 "gifted" deposit?

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nice idea.

anecdotal, gf's sister & bf are buying. Sort of.

Where they live, the 150k they are able to raise wont get much more than a 1 bed flat or a small 2 bed. Not good when they want to start a family.

Solution? Buy into mum's house, and use some of the money to extend it so the old dear can live in a 'granny annex', and they get a bit of privacy.

Sounds good in theory, until u realise that instead of the 450 a month they pay in rent now, they are looking at over 1,000 for the priviledge of sharing a building site with Ma.

Haven't said anything, cos it has caused ructions in the past, especially from the semi-retarded dad-in-law, who thinks 'property only ever goes up' despite having lived thru 2 crashes, and lost houses in both of them. Jeez.

Step bro looks to be getting sweaty palms to me... :-(

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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