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spyguy

Diabetes

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Diabetes day i guess.

Currently 12% of nhs budget is spent on diabetes, mainly type2 i.e fat twit diabetes.

Predicted to rise to 20%

Heart rending stories.

Ghassan, 47, just about to have leg amputated. Non native english speaker.

Aisha, 16 yo, playing football, with her head covering.

FFS!

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Please be aware that some ethnicities are more susceptible to diabetes. It's no joke. It's a killer. Would you have the NHS withhold treatment?

 

BTW, I'm not diabetic. 

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Diabetes can run in the family, as in the case of one of my friends. Sometimes it can be triggered by a virus.

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Im aware of the ethnic element.

Im surprised the news did not make the effort to get a more diverse range of sufferers.

Maybe there needs to be a risk based contribution to the NHS?

People getting type 2 are dumb.

People then going on and having to get leg amputated are fcking idiots and should be charged.

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9 minutes ago, MrPin said:

Diabetes can run in the family, as in the case of one of my friends. Sometimes it can be triggered by a virus.

Type 1.

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No. Type 2. That's being a "bit" diabetic. A friend found out, and his sister and brother were the same.

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My attitude to food & diabetes was formed in a conversation I had with a top US dietician about 5 years ago.  I'd casually mentioned that my mother (who had just been diagnosed with diabetes) was struggling to adapt to her diabetic's diet.  She instantly got a furious look on her face and said 'there is no such thing as a diabetic diet -- that is the diet we should all be on in order to not get diabetes when we're older'

After significantly changing my diet (low refined carb, high fat) I came to the conclusion I was myself suffering from the effects of a high carbohydrate diet which would have eventually turned to diabetes.  I now put the great diabetes epidemic squarely at the door of Ancel Keys.

 

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It's pretty simple. Refined carb >> obesity >> diabetes.

As for the Bradford ethnic connection, it could well be cultural as just about all middle-aged (and most of the young-married) Muslim women I see are obese, or heading that way.

If I were a GP and a patient tested positive for diabetes, I'd point them at the Newcastle Study: <800 Calorie Diet that cured 7 of 11 diabetic patients in weeks (I suspect that the fails were due to non-compliance).

Instead, as with my friend's mother recently, they immediately get put on metformin and sent to diabetic clinic for useless health advice like "reduce fat intake, and eat more healthy carbs", After they fail to lose weight, Gastric Surgery might be offered.

Drugs + surgery is the answer! what other class of disease does that remind you of?

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6 minutes ago, Turned Out Nice Again said:

It's pretty simple. Refined carb >> obesity >> diabetes.

As for the Bradford ethnic connection, it could well be cultural as just about all middle-aged (and most of the young-married) Muslim women I see are obese, or heading that way.

If I were a GP and a patient tested positive for diabetes, I'd point them at the Newcastle Study: <800 Calorie Diet that cured 7 of 11 diabetic patients in weeks (I suspect that the fails were due to non-compliance).

Instead, as with my friend's mother recently, they immediately get put on metformin and sent to diabetic clinic for useless health advice like "reduce fat intake, and eat more healthy carbs", After they fail to lose weight, Gastric Surgery might be offered.

Drugs + surgery is the answer! what other class of disease does that remind you of?

Sad that the health profession can't bring itself to accept that it has been dishing out advice for years which has led to ruined lives for millions of people.  

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2 hours ago, Bossybabe said:

Please be aware that some ethnicities are more susceptible to diabetes. It's no joke. It's a killer. Would you have the NHS withhold treatment?

 

BTW, I'm not diabetic. 

Maybe where it is self inflicted and not withold but subject to education process and progressive treatment on results and weight loss.

 

I know one bloke lost his leg (smoking related and diabetes) in his early 50's. Overwieght which got worse when his leg came off and he got a trolley. NHS have told him he is an alcoholic (he was drinking a lot of beer but knocked that on the head, to lose some weight and does the best part of a bottle of gin and slimline every day).

NHS still have him in 6 times year on physio sessions which he is not the slightest bit interested in.

To be honest a bolt gun would be the most humane treatment..

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1 minute ago, geezer466 said:

Maybe where it is self inflicted and not withold but subject to education process and progressive treatment on results and weight loss.

 

I know one bloke lost his leg (smoking related and diabetes) in his early 50's. Overwieght which got worse when his leg came off and he got a trolley. NHS have told him he is an alcoholic (he was drinking a lot of beer but knocked that on the head, to lose some weight and does the best part of a bottle of gin and slimline every day).

NHS still have him in 6 times year on physio sessions which he is not the slightest bit interested in.

To be honest a bolt gun would be the most humane treatment..

He'll make the medical professionals a small fortune before he finally snuffs it. What a racket and we're paying for it!

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48 minutes ago, Turned Out Nice Again said:

It's pretty simple. Refined carb >> obesity >> diabetes.

As for the Bradford ethnic connection, it could well be cultural as just about all middle-aged (and most of the young-married) Muslim women I see are obese, or heading that way.

If I were a GP and a patient tested positive for diabetes, I'd point them at the Newcastle Study: <800 Calorie Diet that cured 7 of 11 diabetic patients in weeks (I suspect that the fails were due to non-compliance).

Instead, as with my friend's mother recently, they immediately get put on metformin and sent to diabetic clinic for useless health advice like "reduce fat intake, and eat more healthy carbs", After they fail to lose weight, Gastric Surgery might be offered.

Drugs + surgery is the answer! what other class of disease does that remind you of?

 

The problem is compliance with any kind of diet. You can't even get people to reduce their calorie intake to lose a bit of weight, let alone start embarking on an ultra-low calorie diet. Look at how many diet medications have come (and gone) over the years.  It's quite obvious to a lot of people that if they changed their lifestyle, lots of these things wouldn't happen. However they're happy to live in denial, even as they collect problems. It's easier to take a tablet than it is to make any meaningful changes.

As regards Bradford - people of South Asian origin are far more prone to type 2 diabetes, even if they are "thin". 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Turned Out Nice Again said:

I'm getting a bad smell off that site, Joe. Vegan agenda?

The chap who runs the site is a real doctor, and afaik each of the videos links back to the research on pubmed that is used to come to the conclusions.

I like Dr Greger's work, but I'm also happy to look at other science which disproves it. I know lots of vegans are nutty SJW types, but NF.org seems to be fairly well rooted in science IMHO.

The reason I posted it was that I wondered if the <800 cal diet that you mentioned that worked so well, cured the diabetes by allowing the fat to get our of the cellls, as described in this vid?

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58 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

That is interesting.  Ok.  What I propose is a really long longitudinal study, maybe 40-50 years, where we take the population and move them from a high fat diet into a low fat diet. Let everyone eat everything they want, just make sure that everything high fat is turned into low fat.  Wean them off fatty meats, make sure that they move from normal-fat dairy into low fat dairy, say by creating a special milk where we remove 95% of the fat before people drink it.  Best if you make the whole population detest fat, regard it as their enemy.  Maybe you can get them to say things like 'oh, I can see your arteries furring up already' whenever they see anyone eating anything remotely fatty.

Then we can come back in 50 years and see that type 2 diabetes is more or less eradicated in the population...

...Clearly there is much more going on than this simplistic physiological approach suggests.

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9 minutes ago, dgul said:

That is interesting.  Ok.  What I propose is a really long longitudinal study, maybe 40-50 years, where we take the population and move them from a high fat diet into a low fat diet. Let everyone eat everything they want, just make sure that everything high fat is turned into low fat.  Wean them off fatty meats, make sure that they move from normal-fat dairy into low fat dairy, say by creating a special milk where we remove 95% of the fat before people drink it.  Best if you make the whole population detest fat, regard it as their enemy.  Maybe you can get them to say things like 'oh, I can see your arteries furring up already' whenever they see anyone eating anything remotely fatty.

Then we can come back in 50 years and see that type 2 diabetes is more or less eradicated in the population...

...Clearly there is much more going on than this simplistic physiological approach suggests.

Do you think most of the diabetic people today are actually eating low fat diets? I know there's food that is marketed as 'low fat' but when you add up what the average unhealthy pleb eats in a day, I reckon you'd find a fair amount of fat, along with a lot of sugar and salt. Each of which isn't good for us in excess.

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27 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

Do you think most of the diabetic people today are actually eating low fat diets? I know there's food that is marketed as 'low fat' but when you add up what the average unhealthy pleb eats in a day, I reckon you'd find a fair amount of fat, along with a lot of sugar and salt. Each of which isn't good for us in excess.

Yes.  I think they're taking in relatively little fat. And lots and lots and lots of sugar.  vast quantities of sugar.  And what they're not taking in a simple sugar, they're taking in as slightly more complex carbohydrates that are digested/metabolised into sugars very rapidly.

So why do people just eat so much? -- because sugars don't satiate, they give a quick kick and then they're gone, leaving you craving more.  Fats and proteins are much more satiating, leaving people eating high fat diet eating far less.  Note that I'd accept that all-things-being-equal a low fat diet might well be healthier than a high fat diet -- but because of the satiation factor all things are never equal.

As an aside, I'd accept that for a given meal the mix of fats and sugars might well give a higher blood sugar level than just sugar alone...  But it is the high levels of  sugars and other refined carbs that causes the problem, not really the fat -- if these people just ate fat then there wouldn't be any blood glucose spike...

 

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The thing is people used to eat stuff like apple pie as a pudding, with every meal, heavily dowsed with sugar and diabetes didn't used to seem to be such a problem. I still suspect something has disrupted people's ability to process these foods like wheat and sugar that have suddenly become a massive problem. Antibiotic contaminated dairy is high on my list of suspects.

I get bad skin inflammation and, through experimenting with what alleviates or exacerbates it, I've not ended up on a vegan diet but a sort of mammal free diet where I've swapped red meat, and processed meat, for chicken and fish and trying to cut out dairy where possible. Despite having always viewed the organic movement with suspicion I definitely have noticed the difference with organic stuff.

 I'm also very undecided on supplements, of any kind, like vitamin D tablets or even those nutribullet devices as to whether you get the same levels of nutritional benefit from them

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9 minutes ago, SNACR said:

The thing is people used to eat stuff like apple pie as a pudding, with every meal, heavily dowsed with sugar and diabetes didn't used to seem to be such a problem. I still suspect something has disrupted people's ability to process these foods like wheat and sugar that have suddenly become a massive problem. Antibiotic contaminated dairy is high on my list of suspects.

I get bad skin inflammation and, through experimenting with what alleviates or exacerbates it, I've not ended up on a vegan diet but a sort of mammal free diet where I've swapped red meat, and processed meat, for chicken and fish and trying to cut out dairy where possible. Despite having always viewed the organic movement with suspicion I definitely have noticed the difference with organic stuff.

 I'm also very undecided on supplements, of any kind, like vitamin D tablets or even those nutribullet devices as to whether you get the same levels of nutritional benefit from them

People in general are much less active than they used to be, which is to my mind the main issue.

People aren't "processing" their food properly, because they're sat on their **** all the time. This lack of activity reduces your calorie requirements making it difficult to get enough food to meet your nutritional requirements without a calorie surplus. 

Also, unless you have an actual problem digesting milk (a fair few people do) then it's a great source of cheap healthy nutrition. I go through about a pint of full fat milk most days. Marvelous stuff.

 

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20 hours ago, geezer466 said:

Maybe where it is self inflicted and not withold but subject to education process and progressive treatment on results and weight loss.

 

I know one bloke lost his leg (smoking related and diabetes) in his early 50's. Overwieght which got worse when his leg came off and he got a trolley. NHS have told him he is an alcoholic (he was drinking a lot of beer but knocked that on the head, to lose some weight and does the best part of a bottle of gin and slimline every day).

NHS still have him in 6 times year on physio sessions which he is not the slightest bit interested in.

To be honest a bolt gun would be the most humane treatment..

I agree about the bolt gun. I have my own list.  I'll send it to you when you've worked through yours.?

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15 hours ago, SpectrumFX said:

People in general are much less active than they used to be, which is to my mind the main issue.

People aren't "processing" their food properly, because they're sat on their **** all the time. This lack of activity reduces your calorie requirements making it difficult to get enough food to meet your nutritional requirements without a calorie surplus. 

Also, unless you have an actual problem digesting milk (a fair few people do) then it's a great source of cheap healthy nutrition. I go through about a pint of full fat milk most days. Marvelous stuff.

 

While that is absolutely true, I personally do not think that's the issue, it's chronic over consumption of calories. The two of course are linked but the sheer availability of food and the relative cheapness is far more to blame than the fact we move less.

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20 hours ago, JoeDavola said:

The chap who runs the site is a real doctor, and afaik each of the videos links back to the research on pubmed that is used to come to the conclusions.

I like Dr Greger's work, but I'm also happy to look at other science which disproves it. I know lots of vegans are nutty SJW types, but NF.org seems to be fairly well rooted in science IMHO.

The reason I posted it was that I wondered if the <800 cal diet that you mentioned that worked so well, cured the diabetes by allowing the fat to get our of the cellls, as described in this vid?

 

Dr whathisface now has a diabetes diet of 800 calories for 2 months I think

dr michael mosley the 8 week blood sugar diet

 

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45 minutes ago, gilf said:

While that is absolutely true, I personally do not think that's the issue, it's chronic over consumption of calories. The two of course are linked but the sheer availability of food and the relative cheapness is far more to blame than the fact we move less.

This, coupled with the poor food quality.

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1 hour ago, gilf said:

While that is absolutely true, I personally do not think that's the issue, it's chronic over consumption of calories. The two of course are linked but the sheer availability of food and the relative cheapness is far more to blame than the fact we move less.

Over consumption is only overconsumption in relation to your requirements. :)

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