Money Frugality Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Simple case of going broke trying to look rich.. On the subject of cars: People think it's a god given right to drive and will do so by any means and consider a car a status symbol.... Can you imagine that? 86% new cars bought on finance? Be the smarter person, it's hilarious when people think they're better than others when in actual fact everything they do is detrimental to what they strive so hard to achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I feel there are some conflicting factors going on here. It's unarguable that some people are utterly hopeless with money and dig themselves holes they could easily avoid, but there are also rather big issues with job security, negligable interest on savnigs, some aspects of cost of living and so on (although no-one should be anywhere near "can't put food on the table", basic veg is ridiculously cheap). In general better organisation, right from the individual to national level, is needed and more wealth isn't (the problem across the board being how it's distributed and spent). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 24 minutes ago, Money Frugality said: Simple case of going broke trying to look rich.. On the subject of cars: People think it's a god given right to drive and will do so by any means and consider a car a status symbol.... Can you imagine that? 86% new cars bought on finance? Be the smarter person, it's hilarious when people think they're better than others when in actual fact everything they do is detrimental to what they strive so hard to achieve. The illusion is real.......what else can we do? Very many jobs are tied in with car manufacturing, if people do not have savings to buy new they have to some way create a financial instrument to enable more people to drive new or nearly new.....then, who knows scrap what is perfectly useful to make it more economical to drive electric, same for all sorts of things boilers etc...so wasting what works to then use more power and energy to create the same but different....rubbishing stuff whilst in perfect working order, keeping things turning over, growing debt and people in jobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 23 minutes ago, Money Frugality said: On the subject of cars: People think it's a god given right to drive and will do so by any means and consider a car a status symbol.... Can you imagine that? 86% new cars bought on finance? Harder to do without a car than it once would've been though. Driving is so prevalent that society has shaped itself around cars, the long and short of it being to concentrate both jobs and services in larger areas and expect everyone to travel to them, instead of having more of them (albeit probably with less choice) locally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durhamborn Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Money Frugality said: Simple case of going broke trying to look rich.. On the subject of cars: People think it's a god given right to drive and will do so by any means and consider a car a status symbol.... Can you imagine that? 86% new cars bought on finance? Be the smarter person, it's hilarious when people think they're better than others when in actual fact everything they do is detrimental to what they strive so hard to achieve. Dont complain.I love the fact people lease or finance so much.You can pick up used cars for almost free.Iv got a car and a van.Van cost me £800 with 59k on it.Guy over the road and wife both have lease cars.Two months of what they pay for those paid for my van.Never see them in daylight from now until March,out working all hours. Same in the supermarkets.Veg is almost free,but only because enough people fill their baskets with over priced rubbish.I salute these people,i really do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 58 minutes ago, durhamborn said: Same in the supermarkets.Veg is almost free,but only because enough people fill their baskets with over priced rubbish.I salute these people,i really do. Yet apparently it's too expensive for some people to eat healthily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougless Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 1 hour ago, durhamborn said: Dont complain.I love the fact people lease or finance so much.You can pick up used cars for almost free.Iv got a car and a van.Van cost me £800 with 59k on it.Guy over the road and wife both have lease cars.Two months of what they pay for those paid for my van.Never see them in daylight from now until March,out working all hours. Same in the supermarkets.Veg is almost free,but only because enough people fill their baskets with over priced rubbish.I salute these people,i really do. You make a good point here. It is possible to live reasonably well on the back of other peoples fecklessness. If everyone behaved like the HPC Collective do (thoughtful about expenditure/penny pinching/mean/clever etc.) our lives would be much more difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Money Frugality said: Edited October 25, 2016 by winkie Unable to remove quotes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 There are also people who considered an overdraft their money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Frugality Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Riedquat said: In general better organisation, right from the individual to national level, is needed and more wealth isn't (the problem across the board being how it's distributed and spent). Agreed but looking at Winkies last sentence combined with durhamborns post.. They are right; Let it be. Their understanding of how to play the capitalist game is flawed and they're happy with that and there is nothing deniable about their logic. Earn money to buy nice things. Cant argue wth that. Besides I've noticed it doesn't matter what you say to anyone they don't change their minds so accept it and actively encourage them.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Start again, hope this works......wishful thinking. We all have choices.....one choice is to be bothered to learn about how to make a tasty meal using simple seasonal vegetables...it is far too easy to pick up ready made microwave meals, ready to eat in ten minutes, or pop into a takeaway for some chips...choices are how you value and use your time and how you spend your hard earned money........like shopping around for best energy prices or insurance....those who pay top price are subsidising others, they help keep prices lower for the rest. But then again some love to show others they can splash the cash......they are worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This time Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 39 minutes ago, Riedquat said: Yet apparently it's too expensive for some people to eat healthily. I paid 30p in Sainsbury's for a medium sized head of broccoli earlier. The tinned tomatoes in the world food aisle were 25p. Basics rice is 60p a kilo. Who can't afford that? The one concession I'll give to the 'I can't afford to buy healthy food' brigade is that when you're cooking your own food you need herbs and spices which can be expensive if you're starting from nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CunningPlan Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I think there is a bit of a holier than thou attitude here. If you live in the South-East and have kids, £30k will just about be existence level. You won't have any spare cash. Saving 30p on a bit of broccoli doesn't help when your rent is £1500+ per month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durhamborn Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) 57 minutes ago, dougless said: You make a good point here. It is possible to live reasonably well on the back of other peoples fecklessness. If everyone behaved like the HPC Collective do (thoughtful about expenditure/penny pinching/mean/clever etc.) our lives would be much more difficult. They would indeed. My cars/vans themselves including repairs,have cost me on average £16 a week over the last 10 years.(not including fuel,insurance).Less if you count the amount of free logs for fuel iv collected in the back of the van over the years from hedgerows blown down. Food bill has averaged £32 a week over the same period.We eat very very well on that,and very healthy.I can live probably very well for a year on what most of my friends spend in two months.Long may they all spend spend spend.Makes semi retiring at 38 very easy. Edited October 25, 2016 by durhamborn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 34 minutes ago, CunningPlan said: I think there is a bit of a holier than thou attitude here. If you live in the South-East and have kids, £30k will just about be existence level. You won't have any spare cash. Saving 30p on a bit of broccoli doesn't help when your rent is £1500+ per month. I take your point, but it doesn't mean you can't afford to eat. It means you can't afford to pay ludicrous rent (although I don't accept children as part of the excuse). Perhaps it's a prejudice that an awful lot of people are financially feckless but it's one that I've got firmly enough embedded that it's what I'll assume, even if it really, really isn't helped by all sorts of other problems, like overpriced housing (one that stems from the wider society being feckless). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CunningPlan Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Riedquat said: I take your point, but it doesn't mean you can't afford to eat. It means you can't afford to pay ludicrous rent (although I don't accept children as part of the excuse). Perhaps it's a prejudice that an awful lot of people are financially feckless but it's one that I've got firmly enough embedded that it's what I'll assume, even if it really, really isn't helped by all sorts of other problems, like overpriced housing (one that stems from the wider society being feckless). The original point wasn't about affording to eat. It was affording to live. And children are very relevant. No kids - one bed flat, frugal living, easy even on a very low salary. Bung in two teenagers, you need a three bedder - probably need a car if you are rural. My clothes / shoes last for years - not true for kids. They eat a lot, they do actually need things. In fact, if you can survive on £30k with kids in South East as a renter AND save money then you are some kind of budgeting guru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durhamborn Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 41 minutes ago, CunningPlan said: The original point wasn't about affording to eat. It was affording to live. And children are very relevant. No kids - one bed flat, frugal living, easy even on a very low salary. Bung in two teenagers, you need a three bedder - probably need a car if you are rural. My clothes / shoes last for years - not true for kids. They eat a lot, they do actually need things. In fact, if you can survive on £30k with kids in South East as a renter AND save money then you are some kind of budgeting guru. Yes thats very true.Its the reason i turned down many jobs down south over the years on double what my salary was in the north east.I worked out i was far better earning less and paying a northern house off quickly than renting down south.Children and renting paying full rent in the south must be very difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) 7 hours ago, Motor_Blade said: We live in a capitalist society, the way to get ahead in such a society is to build capital - there's a clue in the name after all - yet very few seem to actually do this. Instant gratification via cheap debt seems to be far more popular. But generally building capital from nothing takes borrowing and for many people a certain recklessness with money. Saving from modest incomes will of course will get you some way there, but nice things cost. I spent a hell of a lot on my children when they were young and we were a family unit (say 2-18) because it was fun, because it has built a lifetime of family memories from some great holidays and times together etc. We took the risk that we could achieve a soft landing financially which we have achieved. Never wanted to be the richest in the graveyard or the couple taking their dream holiday at 65, the weird thing is when you look at obituary's it sort of even's out. Many people have a pitiful retirement through poor planning but for everyone of those there are the smug couples who have lived on lentils and now have a lovely BMW on the drive paid for cash at 75 because it was their 'dream' car My old man split life into seasons each of 20 years and was hoping for a long mild winter (dying at 89 he got it) On that basis summer is 20-40 enjoy it as the saying goes: dance like no one is watching live like it's heaven on earth. Too much focus on finance isn't compatible with this I would venture but prudence is of course necessary I have been flat broke but I have never budgeted to eat perhaps just me. The phrase live within your means might as well translate to 'Know your place' what if I want means but want to enjoy some good stuff in my summer as well. I am by no means supporting excessive debt but there is a meme on here occasionally which is puritanical when it comes to money. Winkie said it best enjoy the present Edited October 25, 2016 by Greg Bowman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvadealme Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, CunningPlan said: I think there is a bit of a holier than thou attitude here. If you live in the South-East and have kids, £30k will just about be existence level. You won't have any spare cash. Saving 30p on a bit of broccoli doesn't help when your rent is £1500+ per month. I agree, £30K is not enough, we are a family of 3 in zone 6 London (2 late 30s working adults and a 2.5 year old who is at nursery part time) and our yearly spend is closer to £45K at £3.5-4K per month, looking at my money dashboard app I can see last month for example: Rent -£1350 Nursery £675 Food £450 Commute costs £160 Council Tax £135 Gas and leccy £110 Media bundle £90 Mobiles £60 Petrol £70.... Rest is frittered away somehow... I suspect life would be a bit more comfortable if I hadn't bothered with uni and had just bought a house at 18, I could have been mortgauge free by now, and if I had Grandparents locally to babysit, half my expenses would disappear in one swoop! Edited October 25, 2016 by luvadealme additional info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CunningPlan Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Well said. You do need to live a little if you can. After every family holiday I create a montage of photos and get a canvas print made up. They adorn the walls of one room and whenever the stress of the grind is getting me down I just stand in front of them for a while and it all becomes worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, CunningPlan said: Well said. You do need to live a little if you can. After every family holiday I create a montage of photos and get a canvas print made up. They adorn the walls of one room and whenever the stress of the grind is getting me down I just stand in front of them for a while and it all becomes worthwhile. I am going to retro fit that idea!! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CunningPlan Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 28 minutes ago, Greg Bowman said: I am going to retro fit that idea!! Thanks You're welcome And to continue the miser theme - I get mine from www.swiftprintuk.com - at £17.50 for an A1 canvas they are significantly cheaper than most and the quality / service is very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssKay Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 3 hours ago, CunningPlan said: I think there is a bit of a holier than thou attitude here. If you live in the South-East and have kids, £30k will just about be existence level. You won't have any spare cash. Saving 30p on a bit of broccoli doesn't help when your rent is £1500+ per month. Hmm - this hypothetical family of yours on 30k would have to be particularly principled or financially illiterate to be paying £1500+ month in rent. It is far more likely that they would be on a slightly lower income and claiming housing benefit (i'm pretty sure the threshold for a family with a couple of kids is just under 30k) Back to the wider point, unless you are homeless, a single person on JSA or a student, there really is no excuse for not having any savings at all. Anyone who doesn't is simply irresponsible (sorry if that sounds holier than thou) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noallegiance Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, EssKay said: Hmm - this hypothetical family of yours on 30k would have to be particularly principled or financially illiterate to be paying £1500+ month in rent. It is far more likely that they would be on a slightly lower income and claiming housing benefit (i'm pretty sure the threshold for a family with a couple of kids is just under 30k) Back to the wider point, unless you are homeless, a single person on JSA or a student, there really is no excuse for not having any savings at all. Anyone who doesn't is simply irresponsible (sorry if that sounds holier than thou) Indeed. Choice is not an excuse. Few realise that most circumstances are a direct result of choice. Stuff not always related to choice (off the top of my head): Death Death of a family member Asteroid collision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CunningPlan Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 4 minutes ago, EssKay said: Hmm - this hypothetical family of yours on 30k would have to be particularly principled or financially illiterate to be paying £1500+ month in rent. It is far more likely that they would be on a slightly lower income and claiming housing benefit (i'm pretty sure the threshold for a family with a couple of kids is just under 30k) So you suggest they cut the working hours and play the system? Perhaps not everyone thinks that way? What have we done to society when someone on £30k needs benefits to survive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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