Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

10 poorest areas in N.Europe, 9 in England Wales / N.I. Richest is London


Recommended Posts

Just now, Byron said:

I think that it is the sheer over load of people that is becoming more apparent

Queues, Traffic, Pollution, noise, parking   the list goes on and on, yet we have idiot politicians like Sturgeon welcoming even more people here.

I know that some people like working in London, enjoy all the millions around them.

To me, that is absolute hell.

Hell to me too, as you may  have noticed. But such people have the solution to that - "build more stuff, and whinge about nimbies if anyone objects."

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 70
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

4 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Barring the odd Scottish island (where the numbers involved would be negligable in the grand scheme of things) where? Ditto with infrastructure, there's the odd bit of tinkering around that could be done in places but I can't think of much in the way of lacking infrastructure (as opposed to too many people for it). A little more in places probably wouldn't be too bad if it wasn't for the fact that all new efforts are about as appealing as a flourescent marker on the Mona Lisa.

Nowhere in particular, but if there are not enough people to support say a pub or a village shop it closes, not enough children the school closes or no local surgery, pharmacist, bus services etc....good services are attracted to places with people who will use support and service them.....but there is a tipping point/ healthy balance to be had.;)

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, winkie said:

Nowhere in particular, but if there are not enough people to support say a pub or a village shop it closes, not enough children the school closes or no local surgery, pharmacist, bus services etc....good services are attracted to places with people who will use support and service them.....but there is a tipping point/ healthy balance to be had.;)

Then that's an argument for no small village (or even fairly large village) to exist, only larger places, which would be a sorry state of affairs indeed. Those services existed when it wasn't really practical for the inhabitants to travel further for them. Now that it is they're unable to compete against the economies of scale that easier travel permits (i.e. people can travel quite some distance to a supermarket, or a school in the nearest town, which wouldn't have been possible once). It's not helped by them generally being nicer places to live, which means more likely to be bought up (and the prices being pushed up) by older people with more money - another downside of ease of mobility for wider society, which makes it easier to push the poorer people to the more undesirable areas.

I don't know what the solution to that is, which is why I find the future a grim-looking place indeed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest, there will be a lot of nail bar places, taxi drivers claiming tax credits. However, their is also definitely far too much genuine retail, whether it be out of town shopping centres, small carpet shops, chemists, phone shops, takeaways, chasing too little money. What im trying to say is people do genuinely try and become entrepreneurial but there is a limit to how much people can do when the underlying spending power isnt there.

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, nothernsoul said:

To be honest, there will be a lot of nail bar places, taxi drivers claiming tax credits. However, their is also definitely far too much genuine retail, whether it be out of town shopping centres, small carpet shops, chemists, phone shops, takeaways, chasing too little money. What im trying to say is people do genuinely try and become entrepreneurial but there is a limit to how much people can do when the underlying spending power isnt there.

The spending power is a result, not a cause. It's rather over-simplifying it but if you've got two people with skills, whether it's driving a taxi or running a chemist, and they both need the other skill, then they'll trade and the spending power will be there. We've got all sorts of other stuff complicating that matter but that's what it boils down to. Too much of one skill though and not all businesses based on it will be successful. The supply of skills will often be provided by the big players, which means increased choice and lower prices at the cost of small and more local businesses being less viable. That boosts the large centres at the expense of smaller localised economies.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As for say pubs closing that's not always due to lack of potential support (more real pubs have closed in recent years when the population has escalated) but often due to the increasing rules on various issues due to the increasing congestion.  

Increasing congestion = increasing control.  

Increasing control because increasing congestion means that everyone has to be more and more careful about the other person due to the ever closer proximity of the other person.

Increased control is of course liked by TPTB.

Local schools etc often close for the land to be used to house the increasing congestion and because it's profitable - and people can travel to larger and more centralised schools.

Edited by billybong
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, billybong said:

Local schools etc often close for the land to be used to house the increasing congestion and because it's profitable - and people can travel to larger and more centralised schools.

Isn't "progress" wonderful? More travel, more traffic, larger, more impersonal scale, less sense of community and idenity, but hey, it's all more efficient and good for the economy, which is much more important than actually having a pleasant life for some reason.

Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Isn't "progress" wonderful? More travel, more traffic, larger, more impersonal scale, less sense of community and idenity, but hey, it's all more efficient and good for the economy, which is much more important than actually having a pleasant life for some reason.

Progress = bigger profits for megacorps via neo-liberal policies, cheerleaded by useful-idiot leftwingers, incremental GDP increases.  Nothing else matters. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, billybong said:

As for say pubs closing that's not always due to lack of potential support (more real pubs have closed in recent years when the population has escalated) but often due to the increasing rules on various issues due to the increasing congestion.  

Increasing congestion = increasing control.  

Increasing control because increasing congestion means that everyone has to be more and more careful about the other person due to the ever closer proximity of the other person.

Increased control is of course liked by TPTB.

Local schools etc often close for the land to be used to house the increasing congestion and because it's profitable - and people can travel to larger and more centralised schools.

In less congested areas the local pubs are not just sticky carpets, no parking and alcohol..... they are often the centre of the community, they offer excellent food as well as soft drinks tea and coffee, many also offer accommodation a warm fire and dogs welcome.....used to play pool, darts, cards and dominoes......local clubs and meetings held there......schools will close if not the families and jobs to feed and house the families locally, so the better places to live have a good mix of all ages and both manors and council houses and everything in between. ;)

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, winkie said:

In less congested areas the local pubs are not just sticky carpets, no parking and alcohol..... they are often the centre of the community, they offer excellent food as well as soft drinks tea and coffee, many also offer accommodation a warm fire and dogs welcome.....used to play pool, darts, cards and dominoes......local clubs and meetings held there......schools will close if not the families and jobs to feed and house the families locally, so the better places to live have a good mix of all ages and both manors and council houses and everything in between. ;)

Completely agree with that, but the way the world is going such places are getting less and less viable, particularly having a mix of ages and wealth. Either the manor house gets split into bedsits if the place is seen to be not the best, or the council houses sold as expensive holiday homes if it's pleasant. The transport issues I mention facilitate this, leaving the choices of turning into posh museum area, slum, or grow into another souless sprawl big enough to support the economies of scale that now dominate (which is usually more at the slum end since the wealthier people can commute from the posh museum areas).

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Completely agree with that, but the way the world is going such places are getting less and less viable, particularly having a mix of ages and wealth. Either the manor house gets split into bedsits if the place is seen to be not the best, or the council houses sold as expensive holiday homes if it's pleasant. The transport issues I mention facilitate this, leaving the choices of turning into posh museum area, slum, or grow into another souless sprawl big enough to support the economies of scale that now dominate (which is usually more at the slum end since the wealthier people can commute from the posh museum areas).

Well having good local councillors that have got the local communities best interests at heart can hopefully help to make a big difference. ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Ballyk said:

Interesting re Northern Ireland.  

If you are a graduate public sector worker in NI (doctor, senior teacher or civil servant), you earn a little less than in London.  But it's likely you will live in a decent sized house (very inexpensive compared to SE England), send your kids to grammar school, belong to a private (but compared to England, inexpensive) sports club (golf club, yacht club, etc).

If you are non-skilled, working in the private sector, life is not so good, but still costs of living (esp housing) are very much lower.

The problem with NI, and I imagine other 'poor' parts of the UK, is that the public sector has relatively very high wages, and therefore attracts the brightest and best.  So fewer people enter the 'wealth creating' private sector and produce high quality businesses and jobs.  Far easier (and more rational) to be on the public sector gravy train.  It has been reined back a little since 2010, but the public sector is still a safer, more rewarding place to be in poorer parts of the UK.

I can confirm the above. You can live a reasonable life in such places on what would be considered a fairly modest income elsewhere. In the case of Northern Ireland, it's possible to buy a decent house for £150K or less in the outer suburbs of Belfast and commute in. The 3-bed house my now wife bought is worth about £75K. It's not particularly pretty and not in a brilliant area, but is a shade under 100m2 has three bedrooms and we can commute by train to Belfast in 20 minutes. An annual season ticket is £500 and that allows travel all over NI at the weekends. Loads of lovely countryside, a fair few things to do and people are a great deal more welcoming than London and the South East (and I say that having been 'born and bred' there). The only real negative is it's quite small world. I'm sure there are many other places in the UK just like this.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, The_Equalizer said:

I can confirm the above. You can live a reasonable life in such places on what would be considered a fairly modest income elsewhere. In the case of Northern Ireland, it's possible to buy a decent house for £150K or less in the outer suburbs of Belfast and commute in. The 3-bed house my now wife bought is worth about £75K. It's not particularly pretty and not in a brilliant area, but is a shade under 100m2 has three bedrooms and we can commute by train to Belfast in 20 minutes. An annual season ticket is £500 and that allows travel all over NI at the weekends. Loads of lovely countryside, a fair few things to do and people are a great deal more welcoming than London and the South East (and I say that having been 'born and bred' there). The only real negative is it's quite small world. I'm sure there are many other places in the UK just like this.

You could have got a decent house in London for less than the equivalent of £150k in today's money in the 1990s (although not 100m2).

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Futuroid said:

Apparently around a quarter of people in Wales are living in poverty.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/08/wales-poverty-report-joseph-rowntree-uk-eu

Must be the population density.

Well yes, in that we've got such a godawful system that leeches wealth into the most bloated, crowded, hectic, obnoxious locations and makes less overcrowded and (sometimes) more pleasant places struggle to survive. It's a horrible, destructive, damaging, antisocial system that's slowly killing off anything that makes life worth living, and its supporters are generally either completely blind or thoroughly vile (or both).

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, iamnumerate said:

You could have got a decent house in London for less than the equivalent of £150k in today's money in the 1990s (although not 100m2).

Indeed. When I was doing my degree (construction related) I remember one project involved designing and building a theoretical housing development. When pricing ‘our houses’ we got figures from estate agents of £75K for a three bed semi (in zone five). That's £140K in real terms. Actual price today about £450K.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, The_Equalizer said:

Indeed. When I was doing my degree (construction related) I remember one project involved designing and building a theoretical housing development. When pricing ‘our houses’ we got figures from estate agents of £75K for a three bed semi (in zone five). That's £140K in real terms. Actual price today about £450K.

 

That is nothing I know someone whose family paid £3K 50 years ago for a house, real terms £70K actual value £1 million.  Well done politicians for making an essential more expensive??

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.