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JimDiGritz

What to do with my pension? Telegraph article

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/special-reports/i-have-a-gold-plated-bt-pension-what-should-i-do-with-my-200k-sa/

 

Quote

Since retiring last year he has been living off his BT final-salary pension, which is worth £1,160 per month, plus his state pension of £645 a month.

 

****** this. 

 

 

 

Or are you all hoping for an inheritance from this?

 

EDITED BY MODERATOR 

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I'm too busy working to earn the money to pay my boomer landlord the rent to have time to go out and agitate.

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Divide and rule, don't fall for it.  Ask why the rest of us cannot be freed in retirement after a life of servitude to the corporate machine, rather than bashing those that have gone before. Blame the one percent for milking the productive class and the shirkers for never contributing.  

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It seems he had a relatively well paid job apparently with quite a lot of responsibiity and probably requiring some higher education - project manager with BT - and he didn't retire until he was about 72.  Above average retirement age.  

I suppose one question is do those sort of jobs still exist for British people - even if they do exist there'll only be a relatively small number of people doing them at any one time so hardly a representative measure of the overall average job market in Britain and it's fairness/unfairness.  I suspect that even for that type of job the wages have been relatively static for the past 20/30 years or so despite the skill and experience necessary to do them.  

He would have done better to have gone into banking and got bonuses for failure.

Edited by billybong

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5 minutes ago, billybong said:

It seems he had a relatively well paid job apparently with quite a lot of responsibiity and probably requiring some higher education - project manager with BT - and he didn't retire until he was about 72.  Above average retirement age.  

I suppose one question is do those sort of jobs still exist for British people - even if they do exist there'll only be a relatively small number of people doing them at any one time so hardly a representative measure of the overall average job market in Britain and it's fairness/unfairness.  I suspect that even for that type of job the wages have been relatively static for the past 20/30 years or so despite the skill and experience necessary to do them.  

He would have done better to have gone into banking and got bonuses for failure.

Good point, excellently made

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Ye

21 minutes ago, billybong said:

I suppose one question is do those sort of jobs still exist for British people - even if they do exist there'll only be a relatively small number of people doing them at any one time so hardly a representative measure of the overall average job market in Britain and it's fairness/unfairness.  I suspect that even for that type of job the wages have been relatively static for the past 20/30 years or so despite the skill and experience necessary to do them.  

Yes,t hey exists and now the salary is about £50k tops (outside London) and 3% or less pension contribution

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2 minutes ago, Money Frugality said:

I've asked someone who's boomer parent is a retired btler how he expects to buy a house.. he said inheritance.. his dads 50.. 

If he is 50 then he is not a Boomer, it will be GenerationX.

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Personally I feel a bit sorry for this guy. He is clearly prudent and has saved and invested wisely in addition to having a generous pension. He's now got far more money than I suspect he's able to spend. Should have been enjoying himself a bit more long ago, not waiting until he's in his 70s. The message to Boomers and non-Boomers is that ultimately, none of us can take it with us.

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1 hour ago, Orsino said:

Personally I feel a bit sorry for this guy. He is clearly prudent and has saved and invested wisely in addition to having a generous pension. He's now got far more money than I suspect he's able to spend. Should have been enjoying himself a bit more long ago, not waiting until he's in his 70s. The message to Boomers and non-Boomers is that ultimately, none of us can take it with us.

 

Yup, he's a lot older than me and I'm in my ninth year of full retirement.

To the OP, no doubt you think I should be lynched for paying into the state pension scheme (as a higher rate taxpayer) for over forty years, paying a substantial sum into a private pension for twenty five years and saving some money for a rainy day, thus being able to enjoy a reasonably comfortable retirement.

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8 hours ago, One-percent said:

Divide and rule, don't fall for it.  Ask why the rest of us cannot be freed in retirement after a life of servitude to the corporate machine, rather than bashing those that have gone before. Blame the one percent for milking the productive class and the shirkers for never contributing.  

It was Gordon Brown who created the hoards of zombie shirkers.  Anyone who pays taxes is having to pay for them.

Hopefully if we get an unrestrained Conservative Government which may be the only benefit of Brexit, we can eventually cap benefits to £10k per year and drop taxes.

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7 hours ago, Orsino said:

Personally I feel a bit sorry for this guy. He is clearly prudent and has saved and invested wisely in addition to having a generous pension. He's now got far more money than I suspect he's able to spend. Should have been enjoying himself a bit more long ago, not waiting until he's in his 70s. The message to Boomers and non-Boomers is that ultimately, none of us can take it with us.

 

I don't think this is that uncommon.

My own father, who is a tad younger than the chap in the article has a £1600 pcm pension and of course no mortgage. That said he probably doesn't  have the £200k savings pot as he rather likes a flutter.

The thing is to me these numbers don't look that big, but then my monthly mortgage exceeds his total income.

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The most vulnerable age is between 55 and late 60s 70....... Growing numbers of older people without a pension to brag about that will cover living costs and debt still held, and have spent any pension savings, especially women who thought they would get a pension at 60 but have to wait another 5 to possibly 10 years......sick, weaker older people who can't work full time doing the work they are used to for whatever reason, and have no other skills or strength to do little else part-time.....ticking time bomb. ;)

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3 minutes ago, Futuroid said:

Boomers? Gonna beat them to death with my iPad.

Thing is there is a growing gap between the haves and the have a lot less, from all ages......there are also very many young people who have inherited huge sums of money from doing nothing, got bought the best education simply because of who they happened to be born to......what is happening to the middle? ;)

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Just now, winkie said:

Thing is there is a growing gap between the haves and the have a lot less, from all ages......there are also very many young people who have inherited huge sums of money from doing nothing, got bought the best education simply because of who they happened to be born to......what is happening to the middle? ;)

And, the rule book has been torn up.  

Think an education will get you out of poverty?  Nope, it will just load you up with massive debt

think that being prudent and saving for a rainy day is a sensible move?  Nope, you will just see it printed away as tptb debase the pound

think that being diligent and working hard will pay off in the long run?  Nope, that house you could have bought, but decided against as house prices were just too mental, is earning more than you

think  paying into a pension for your old age will mean that you have a reasonable retirement? Nope, the goalposts will be moved so you are dead before you collect.  If you do manage to reach the magical age, then you will find some bankster or 'entrepreneur ' will have stolen it 

Think getting pregnant at 16 and being a single mum, popping them out from there on in on a regular basis is the road to ruin and impoverishment? Nope, you will be living the life of Riley laughing at all the idiots trying to do the right thing.

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44 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

It was Gordon Brown who created the hoards of zombie shirkers.  Anyone who pays taxes is having to pay for them.

Hopefully if we get an unrestrained Conservative Government which may be the only benefit of Brexit, we can eventually cap benefits to £10k per year and drop taxes.

Just playing devil's advocate, but do you reckon the government might be concerned about the social effects if benefits were cut too severely? I'm thinking potential increases in crime, disorder etc.

Perhaps they feel it's a price worth paying to keep the underclass quiet...

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Single mums have had it good in the way of handouts and housing in the past, but the kids can't choose their parents and for every single mum there is a single dad, should they be expecting the state to support their kids? Anyway kids grow up let's hope the kids will support the parents who will have no skills, work or savings to support themselves.......who will pay the rent? ;)

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1 hour ago, winkie said:

The most vulnerable age is between 55 and late 60s 70....... Growing numbers of older people without a pension to brag about that will cover living costs and debt still held, and have spent any pension savings, especially women who thought they would get a pension at 60 but have to wait another 5 to possibly 10 years......sick, weaker older people who can't work full time doing the work they are used to for whatever reason, and have no other skills or strength to do little else part-time.....ticking time bomb. ;)

Yes this is the future and not far away.I think the problem is the scale of difference.Its the gap thats the problem.Pensions will start to fall off a cliff soon.Most people i know below 45 outside of the council/government have no pensions savings or very small.They would manage on the state pension and whatever few quid they do have,but the problem is getting from 55 to 68.Pushing the pension age back instead of cutting state final salary pensions will prove to be a massive mistake.

The people i know over 55 have huge pensions mostly,and so much disposable income they buy BTL terrace houses up here for cash.In my close without exact figures,but going by the jobs etc the three houses with the highest incomes are 1.Retired copper and wife,ex teacher 55ish.2.Retired couple both ex council 55ish.3 Single mother not working,3 kids,two on dla for ADHD.

The worst off is the young couple over the road 27ish,both working full time and renting from the ex copper who bought the house with his pension lumper.

 

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I can't see the problem with this chap. It's not like he's salivating over the prospect of converting it all into a buy to let empire and greedily leveraging up.

I suspect he knows that he's been lucky.

He's a product of that time of fantasy pensions and HPI, sure. The rest of his savings are average imho. He's done well but no better than I would expect someone who's been reasonably prudent living in that era to have done.

Good luck to him. 

Edited by Frugal Git

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50 minutes ago, Craig_ said:

Just playing devil's advocate, but do you reckon the government might be concerned about the social effects if benefits were cut too severely? I'm thinking potential increases in crime, disorder etc.

Perhaps they feel it's a price worth paying to keep the underclass quiet...

Benefits will be inflated away most probably.We have a four year freeze already passed,Next year looks certain to be inflation 3%+.We might see a 10%+ cut over the next four years in benefits,without hardly a word in the press unless they pick up on it.

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To add - I'm actually suprised his BT pension is that low p/m. It doesnt go into detail, but presumably he didnt work there all his life otherwise and wasnt *that* highly paid because I'd have expected  it to be twice that given other fantasy land economic pension schemes I've been privy to seeing.

Presumably it is after tax, but even then - there's a lot of people his age on a damn sight more than that a month....

Edited by Frugal Git

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7 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

 

Yup, he's a lot older than me and I'm in my ninth year of full retirement.

To the OP, no doubt you think I should be lynched for paying into the state pension scheme (as a higher rate taxpayer) for over forty years, paying a substantial sum into a private pension for twenty five years and saving some money for a rainy day, thus being able to enjoy a reasonably comfortable retirement.

 

I think the frustrations are partly due to the real issues of inter generational inequality which are dismissed out of hand by some (not you, obviously!)

 

A close relative of mine, 66 years old and having taken early retirement a decade ago, was gleefully telling me and my missus that he had already withdrawn more then the sum total of his career pension contributions(1 employer throughout his working life) and was adamant that his scheme was fully funded, as the current workers contributions were being upped, the indexing and future benefits degraded, and the firm itself putting in a huge amount to cover the blossoming shortfall. He is someone who never misses a chance to stick the boot into Socialism and or people he sees as shirkers, benefit junkies etc. Basically a flesh version of his beloved Telegraph.

I hinted that maybe current benefit payouts should be looked at too, he said he has a bit of paper guaranteeing his RPI uplift etc, so that's that. The scheme even broke their own rules to dish out greater increases in payments than allowable when inflation spiked a few years back, which he was also gloating about at the time.

It is not fair to generalise this attitude across to an entire cohort, but when even people with nominally decent educations are happy to say that others should cough up seemingly without limit to fund their lifestyle to an absolutely absurd level in relation to their contributions (the pooled risk approach will of course always mean some pay more or receive less than others) we have a problem.

The whole starting point for solving these problems is that current benefits are entirely off the table. I think that is wrong, for many reasons. Some rowing back in future benefits is obviously required to prevent this problem from happening in future but it is not justifiable to expect the burden for sorting the current mess to entirely be borne by others too. In most situations in life where one entity is consuming something way beyond a sustainable or justifiable level, the answer is rarely to do nothing to check it and scavenge resources from elsewhere to cover up the problem. Pensions see to be different for some reason.

A degradation in index linking, which has been foisted on others, could amount to a reasonable saving in this specific case. It's not impossible he lives for 25 years from here and his income doubles in the meantime, nominally. I dunno how much he gets at the moment, I think he did 30 years employment, maybe 35, so around half final salary with a decade+ of RPI indexing to date maybe. So maybe 75% of final salary in nominal terms today? I feel sure he'll tell me when the index linking means he gets paid more in nominal terms than when he was at work.

As has been noted above, it's not like this dough is actually going to be of much use, it'll likely sit in a bank account doing nothing until they die, while they print off their 2 for 1 pub offers and continue to pretend they are not staggeringly well off, and mostly a result of the actively forced enactment of socialist principles he claims to hate so much.

 

No wonder UK productivity is under pressure imo. People know they are being screwed and are reacting accordingly- get your retirement in along the way and don't work too hard. It is an approach I have employed, and continue to do so. My 2005 self would not have believed these words would have come from me a decade hence, but I have been taught a severe lesson in the meantime.

Edited by The Knimbies who say No

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