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Bruce Banner

Will we leave the EU?

Will we leave the EU?  

139 members have voted

  1. 1. Will we leave the EU?

    • Yes
      86
    • No
      53


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Do you think that the government will actually invoke article 50 or will the remain camp win in the end?

Simple yes or no answer, not what you would like but what, for whatever reason, you think will happen.

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The plebs want to leave.  The ruling class does not.  And they rule, and are not afraid to defy the people to do so it seems, and so we will not leave.

I do think it'll mean yet another blow to the notion of democracy.  I'm not even gonna bother playing lip service to the notion if they do overturn it.  Parliament is no longer a representative chamber, it's just been wholly captured by vested, antidemocratic interests.  I will actually get off my ar5e and show up in London to be kettled by the ruling (well, it'll be more occupying than ruling) classes footsoldiers if it comes to that.

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I don't think they will go through with it.

Some points i will make:

1. They have stalled for time twice now already (taking it to 9 months stalling currently)

2. How will it look to rest of the World if the referendum / will of the people is ignored? a total laughing stock? dictatorship? the notion of democracy finished? 

3. The PM is unelected and has stated to the World on television that Article 50 will be invoked no later than the end of March 2017, how can she backtrack on that and remain in a tentable position? is she a stooge? 

4. There is a little known clause in the invoking of Article 50 that provides for the submitting country to ask for a longer negotiating period at the outset (longer than 2 years) is this the plan? as with any laws / policy changes / economic plans the UK comes out with it is always scheduled to begin on some far off date in the future usually years away, then comes the quiet undoing / watering down / U-turn / backtracking some time later "soundbites" "pish hard talk" 

5. How would 17.41m people that voted leave accept the reneging on the democratic referendum result? alot will admit they voted leave because they had nothing to lose and still don't, hypothetically how would large scale countrywide peaceful protest be policed? would fond posts about the military disappear from facebook? 

6. What damage has all this already done to Britains standing in the world? are we already being laughed at for the whole debacle? reports EU citizens boycotting british goods already, can the UK really pull together and make a go it after Brexit when so many are vehemently bitter and trying everything to sabotage the process? 

Edited by workingpoor

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12 minutes ago, EUBanana said:

The plebs want to leave.  The ruling class does not.  And they rule, and are not afraid to defy the people to do so it seems, and so we will not leave.

I do think it'll mean yet another blow to the notion of democracy.  I'm not even gonna bother playing lip service to the notion if they do overturn it.  Parliament is no longer a representative chamber, it's just been wholly captured by vested, antidemocratic interests.  I will actually get off my ar5e and show up in London to be kettled by the ruling (well, it'll be more occupying than ruling) classes footsoldiers if it comes to that.

+1

I was initially puzzled by the BofE's decision to drop interest rates when the £ tanked - which is exactly the opposite to what every economics textbook says to do.

Then I realised that if the economy crashed, it could be blamed on Brexit; the muggles would waver in their support for Leave, the government could 'regretfully' postpone - and later cancel - invoking Article 50, and the ruling classes would have got their way.

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What I would like to know is what the recently made up word 'Brexit' actually means......Brexit means Brexit could just as well be Biscuit means Biscuit......and I know what a biscuit is something sweet to eat with many textures, ingredients and flavours.;)

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6 minutes ago, workingpoor said:

6. What damage has all this already done to Britains standing in the world? are we already being laughed at for the whole debacle? can the UK really pull together and make a go it after Brexit when so many are vehemently bitter and trying everything to sabotage the process? 

Those fools who would sell their souls to the devil, sorry, vote to remain in the EU, would tell you so, but hopefully it'll be the first knock in "money / wealth is everything". Those laughing are those who are the problem.

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1 hour ago, Bruce Banner said:

Do you think that the government will actually invoke article 50 or will the remain camp win in the end?

Simple yes or no answer, not what you would like but what, for whatever reason, you think will happen.

I voted no. 

I predicted ages ago that if we actually won the vote, then the powers that be would do absolutely everything to avoid actually leaving.

The only way we will ever leave is if we get a UKIP majority.

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Yes, I have never joined a protest in my life but failure to leave would see me on the streets and there would be the first ever series of middle class riots.

And when the government loses the middle class it falls.

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1 hour ago, EUBanana said:

The plebs want to leave.  The ruling class does not.  And they rule, and are not afraid to defy the people to do so it seems, and so we will not leave.

I do think it'll mean yet another blow to the notion of democracy.  I'm not even gonna bother playing lip service to the notion if they do overturn it.  Parliament is no longer a representative chamber, it's just been wholly captured by vested, antidemocratic interests.  I will actually get off my ar5e and show up in London to be kettled by the ruling (well, it'll be more occupying than ruling) classes footsoldiers if it comes to that.

That's exactly what I think. Kiss goodbye to any notion of democracy if the result of the referendum are overturned by the quasi-Normans. 

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4 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Yes, I have never joined a protest in my life but failure to leave would see me on the streets and there would be the first ever series of middle class riots.

And when the government loses the middle class it falls.

I was on holiday in France during July and August and, almost without exception, the middle class Brits I met had voted for Brexit.

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1 hour ago, workingpoor said:

I don't think they will go through with it.

Some points i will make:

1. They have stalled for time twice now already (taking it to 9 months stalling currently)

2. How will it look to rest of the World if the referendum / will of the people is ignored? a total laughing stock? dictatorship? the notion of democracy finished? 

3. The PM is unelected and has stated to the World on television that Article 50 will be invoked no later than the end of March 2017, how can she backtrack on that and remain in a tentable position? is she a stooge? 

4. There is a little known clause in the invoking of Article 50 that provides for the submitting country to ask for a longer negotiating period at the outset (longer than 2 years) is this the plan? as with any laws / policy changes / economic plans the UK comes out with it is always scheduled to begin on some far off date in the future usually years away, then comes the quiet undoing / watering down / U-turn / backtracking some time later "soundbites" "pish hard talk" 

5. How would 17.41m people that voted leave accept the reneging on the democratic referendum result? alot will admit they voted leave because they had nothing to lose and still don't, hypothetically how would large scale countrywide peaceful protest be policed? would fond posts about the military disappear from facebook? 

6. What damage has all this already done to Britains standing in the world? are we already being laughed at for the whole debacle? reports EU citizens boycotting british goods already, can the UK really pull together and make a go it after Brexit when so many are vehemently bitter and trying everything to sabotage the process? 

1).  Yup, though the March 2017 deadline is the hard one now.  If that one gets stalled, we're not leaving, we're pretend-leaving.

2).  I think it will look very bad for the European Union's democratic legitimacy.   But then, that's never stopped them before has it.  It's increasingly looking like only open revolt will stop the EU, and I'm not sure people are willing to go that far.  

3).  I don't think May is much cop, she probably thinks thats a fight for tomorrow, not today.

4).  I doubt this will fly because the EU wants to play hardball and it requires unanimous consent.

5).  They'll probably sit on their ar5e.  Even if they don't it's looking doubtful that things will change - Iraq war protests anyone?

6).  EU citizens are clearly not our best friends after all then, are they.   The EU's attitude is increasingly a decidedly hostile "submit or be our enemy".

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Nicola Sturgeon is highly entertaining at the best of times.

"The government has no mandate for a hard Brexit"

.. is like saying to someone who agrees to cook dinner that they do not have a mandate to cook potatoes.

There are so many things coming to a head not just here but in Europe that I think it impossible to really predict where this will go.

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I think the EU is doomed whether we stay or leave.

The one thing I would point out to Remainers who argue that MPs can vote down the decision of the referendum is that their argument is contradictory.  Parliament may represents the sovereign will of the people but MPs are themselves temporary holders of office.Therefore the only logical way to retest the will of the people would not be to hold another referendum or to ignore the result of the 2016 vote but to hold a General Election where each MP would be asked to clearly state his view on the matter and the let the electorate decide whether to reelect them. This ought to concentrate the minds of a few of our Westminster friends who I think might be dole queue bound after such a poll.

If we do stay in the EU then personally I don't see much point in retaining a Westminster Parliament. a Department of Trade, a Foreign Office or all the other expensive paraphernalia of national government. I can't see us going back to the situation before the referendum whatever the decision so really MPs and those who occupy senior posts in the UK government need to decide whether they want a job in the future or not.

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7 hours ago, SpewLabour said:

I voted no. 

I predicted ages ago that if we actually won the vote, then the powers that be would do absolutely everything to avoid actually leaving.

The only way we will ever leave is if we get a UKIP majority.

Career politicians greatest fear .are they willing to vote for their P45 is the question 

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I don't think article 50 will be triggered. The government will lose the court case (and will be secretly pleased) and it will be bogged down in parliament forever.

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Remainers are also playing a very dangerous game if they manage to overturn the referendum result as in the event that the EU implodes (as it will) they will be personally on the hook for it with no excuse that it was a democratic decision to hide behind.

If the first event comes to pass the UK will become effectively ungovernable even if the EU doesn't implode and this will play straight into the hands of Brussels.

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3 hours ago, hotairmail said:

Well the joke is that the "Mother of Parliaments should have a say on Brexit because people didn't vote to leave the single market". (Nick Clegg, Knock out johnny, Mikhail liebenstein, Confusion of VI's etc ).

Well I've got news for you...we didn't vote to join it. 

There is a very good principle in democracies...Parliaments elected by the people do not have the legitimacy to give its powers away. Only the people via a plebiscite can do that legitimately.

So, the precedent being established means that Parliament never had the proper authority to give our democracy away in the first place.

(Note: adoption of the 'single market' was later than accession to the more limited 'common market')

 

 

That is rather the point.Parliament is not some sort of magic institution endowed with authority by some mystical Divine Right of MPs .

In  a democracy its powers ultimately derive from the people.

To argue otherwise is simply to state that you do not believe in democracy

 

 

 

Edited by stormymonday_2011

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I suspect that Britain will leave the eu and possibly pretty soon.  Any apparent shortcomings through things like lack of FOM (a version suitable to Britain) with the eu might in due course and given some time be made up by closer ties with the US - maybe even some form of constitutional and legal ties.  

Ultimately maybe some form of British FOM with the US.

If it is a possibility the exact details are of course impossible to predict at the moment.

Edited by billybong

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1 hour ago, stormymonday_2011 said:

That is rather the point.Parliament is not some sort of magic institution endowed with authority by some mystical Divine Right of MPs .

In  a democracy its powers ultimately derive from the people.

To argue otherwise is simply to state that you do not believe in democracy

 

It's worse than that as it means going against democracy. It won't be a neutral action that just happens like the EU has been so far.

Then what. The police have no authority. Courts are defunct. We wake up to what we are.... and we don't like it very much.

The end. 

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Swampy, would you like to be my Minister of Offence, when I seize power? I only need honest people.

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1 hour ago, The Generation Game said:

Anyone want to change their vote?

No. Can't think why but I just feel the need to sharpen my pitchfork for some reason.

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16 minutes ago, Nickos said:

Riots pending if they try to stay in and white wash the result. 

The majority do not need to riot in a democracy. There's a comfortable electoral victory votes in the Brexit voters. And the sheer scale of engagement in the referendum poll means that serious numbers of people consider it the defining issue.

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I think we have to leave...Southern States with unpayable debt, corruption that is led by German and Gallic rule (I suppose you could argue that it might be safer to partner the French from within than let them try and destroy our economy from a position of exile). And thirdly bonkers policy making, the evacuation of almost exclusively men from the African continent is going to cause serious social cohesion problems and distorted sex ratios. Almost as if Merkel delighted in making hundreds of thousands of men single.

But corruption, bonkers policy making and ruinous deficits (we have a problem there anyway I suppose) will drag us down if we stay.

Edited by crashmonitor

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