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wherebee

Another piece of pro-crash legislation

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So......the impact of this could be huge.  Seriously huge.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/13/properties-seized-assets-corrupt-cash-crackdown-criminal-finances-bill-tax-haven

It means basically no property in London is safe haven asset status any more.  Once local councils get hold of this legislation, I fully expect a bloodbath as they go after (at last) house after house.

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Be careful for what you wish for!
Confiscatory power legislation such as this, whilst superficially appealing and seemingly well intentioned, can easily end up being the the thin end of a very thick wedge!

Make no mistake that legislation such as this, which in particular shifts the onus on to you of proving your innocence rather than TPTB proving your guilt, will end up being used routinely against you and I for all manner of trivial things before too long - and any gain made from stripping the odd crooked money launderer will be a drop in the ocean.

IF pressed could you honestly account for every single penny that EVER came your way?!  I doubt it.  In which case you too, or your children, can one day kiss goodbye to things that are rightfully yours, through such arbitrary confiscation.

I'm increasingly wary these days of claims made by official bodies and the statistics they quote. Just how do they arrive at a figure of £100bn that is supposedly illicit/undeclared/etc ??  What is their evidence?  IF they had the evidence then they could certainly use any number of existing laws to prosecute, secure conviction and then confiscate.

It's like reading about how many illegal guns are supposedly in circulation in the UK.  Because of the secret illicit nature of the market nobody really has any idea. It could 10 million or only 1000 thousand.  And so too with such illicit money circulation figures. Absent detailed and unrestricted analysis of internaitonal banking transfer information no-one can know for certain.  I have no doubt the sum is large but, relative to the sums that government constantly needs to sustain itself, and milk off us, its relatively small.

Edited by anonguest

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so, a guy comes to the uk, he has money, says he wants 2 buy a £100,000 watch, the government asks "how did u get this money 2 buy the watch" the guy says "****** off, can i buy the watch with this money?" the uk says "no." the guy leaves the uk and goes 2 russia to buy a watch.

 

the year 2020.

"oi, you! where did you get that £100 phone?"

"its mine, i swapped it for a can of tuna, it has all my numbers in it, u can ask my mum."

police officer says

"no proof of receipt, hand over the phone kid."

 

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1 hour ago, happyrichie said:

this is terrible, its guilty till proven innocent.

Its simply a retrospective application of the anti-money laundering laws.

And a reminder that property assets are perfect  target for the taxman.

 

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56 minutes ago, happyrichie said:

so, a guy comes to the uk, he has money, says he wants 2 buy a £100,000 watch, the government asks "how did u get this money 2 buy the watch" the guy says "****** off, can i buy the watch with this money?" the uk says "no." the guy leaves the uk and goes 2 russia to buy a watch.

 

Russian Government takes the watch and kills you. 250k+ Russia companies per year have their assets seized.

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2 hours ago, Fully Detached said:

That it can and probably will be extended.

But apart from that?

UK money laundering stuff covers the big purchases we make doesn't it? I mean they wouldn't let british citizens buy houses with dodgy money?
 

Edited by SarahBell

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17 minutes ago, SarahBell said:

But apart from that?

UK money laundering stuff covers the big purchases we make doesn't it? I mean they wouldn't let british citizens buy houses with dodgy money?
 

It's not who it's applied to that I have a problem with, it's that supposition of guilt is in my opinion a fundamental bastardisation of the law. I can't turn a blind eye just because I would stand to benefit in this instance.

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1 minute ago, Fully Detached said:

It's not who it's applied to that I have a problem with, it's that supposition of guilt is in my opinion a fundamental bastardisation of the law. I can't turn a blind eye just because I would stand to benefit in this instance.

So is the process not going to have any opportunities for people to show where they legitimately got the money from?

The tax man currently works like this: 
You owe HMRC £100k, show you don't.
 

Edited by SarahBell

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I understood the limit was 5k for residents paying cash at the moment so these powers are already in place for those of us already here. But will anything actually be seized. Let's see. 

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3 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

Its simply a retrospective application of the anti-money laundering laws.

And a reminder that property assets are perfect  target for the taxman.

 

It's not just that it is retrospective, which is bad enough, it is that it permits confiscation without conviction in court of law.

IF the significance and social implications of that fine legal nuance is lost on you then I pity you.

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1 minute ago, SarahBell said:

So is the process not going to have any opportunities for people to show where they legitimately got the money from?

The tax man currently works like this: 
You owe HMRC £100k, show you don't.
 

Exactly. Equally wrong IMO. Ask anyone who has ever had a tax investigation how they feel about the "opportunities" for them to prove their innocence, and see what response you get.

It's a matter of opinion, I can't speak for anybody else but to me both this and the way the taxman operates is a absolute violation of the law and our rights.

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9 minutes ago, SarahBell said:

So is the process not going to have any opportunities for people to show where they legitimately got the money from?

The tax man currently works like this: 
You owe HMRC £100k, show you don't.
 

I repeat my earlier comment.  Can you account for every single penny that has ever come your way - ever?!  I doubt it.

Edited by anonguest

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13 minutes ago, Fully Detached said:

It's not who it's applied to that I have a problem with, it's that supposition of guilt is in my opinion a fundamental bastardisation of the law. I can't turn a blind eye just because I would stand to benefit in this instance.

Hear hear. A fellow of conscience too.

And the 'in this instance' is the particularly operative part.  It would only be a matter of time, with the precedents set, that such legal concepts and laws would be turned and used against otherwise ordinary citizens.

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