The XYY Man Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 5 hours ago, Dorkins said: First rule of Grumpy Old Men: if it's not the way it was done in 1975, it's wrong. You have wisdom beyond your years Grasshopper - and will make an excellent Grumpy Old Man when your time comes... XYY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 13 minutes ago, SarahBell said: You can only recycle paper so many times though. The stuff they used to print the free paper on wouldn't burn. Asbestos Monthly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 4 hours ago, MrPin said: Recycling paper is not daft. It can be made into cardboard boxes to ship more tat in. Whether it is daft or not depends on the wholesale price of used paper. OK, don't recycle the cardboard boxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 It's really quite simple. If recycling made sense, companies would be paying us for our junk, not charging us to take it away. QED. Our local recycling centre has a poster showing the things recycled material is turned into. From that, I can conclude that all it's doing, if anything, is helping to reduce the cost of cheap Chinese tat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man o' the year Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 On 12/10/2016 at 8:49 PM, Frank Hovis said: nI flatly refuse to recycle; I think it's a control and money making scam. I do however use things to destruction and frequently buy second hand. Which to me is just better. I agree to a great extent. I am rapidly becoming disillusioned with all aspects of government control and have changed my behaviour accordingly. I used to raise money for NHS and Schools. I will not do neither any more. My father's wait and final refusal for operation put paid to the former and the decision not allow our kids out of school for a fortnight holiday has meant we have had no family holiday since 2011 so I will no longer give to school fundraising. As for the recycling it is much cheaper for us to put it all in one bin for our business rather than rent several different recycling bins. The militant approach of our local council (our council has invested in number plate recognition at our council run waste sites so unregistered vehicles are challenged when at the tip for the right to use it) means that although I will never stoop to polluting our hedgerows and farmer's fields many do and it is an increasing problem. Yet the council is able to proudly proclaim that 90% of waste is recycled. Nearby previously pristine blue bell woods now full of discarded tarmac and plasterboard after the washing machines and mattresses have been cleared away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Welcome to Soviet Britain. Tractor production increased 500% this year, as we measure production by weight and added five tons of lead to every tractor produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 4 hours ago, MarkG said: It's really quite simple. If recycling made sense, companies would be paying us for our junk, not charging us to take it away. You're assuming there are no externalities in the supply chains for new material e.g. that miners and loggers are paying the full price for what they take away and the damage they leave behind. Seems pretty unlikely to be the case, especially in poorer countries where regulation is weak and corruption is rife. Price signals are not always correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Neat the way they combined clean air with recycling. Bonfire night on one day of the year with the bonfires was such a handy way to get rid of unwanted combustible stuff. All in one fell swoop. Now it has to go in plastic bags to the bin men - plastic bags to help to support the oil industry. Official advisory that letters are shredded first of course for security and to avoid identity theft - and to help the shredding gadget industry - and so on. Then the councils just bundle it all up together and dump it - crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 On 10/13/2016 at 1:33 PM, LiveinHope said: It's a council recycling scheme, and according to the Council's website to fend off queries, apparently, "while you may see the waste being collected by the same lorry and unsegregated, please be sure that we sort it all upon arrival" Hmmm Recycling helps to keep people busy after they get home from work. Everyone knows what they say about idle hands. If refuse separation was so important they would have a refuse separation team and separation department to separate stuff on delivery and let people concentrate on their real work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Mind you it's just the tip of the landfill in terms of government waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 6 hours ago, billybong said: If refuse separation was so important they would have a refuse separation team and separation department to separate stuff on delivery and let people concentrate on their real work. Entropy-wise it's much easier to have the person producing each item of waste put it in a separate bin as the waste is generated rather than jumble them all up and use energy to separate them again later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 6 hours ago, Dorkins said: You're assuming there are no externalities in the supply chains for new material Ah, yes, the magic 'externalities'. Economist wants to prove something should actually cost $X when it costs $Y, so he invents some 'externality' that he claims costs $X-Y, and job done. One of the biggest scams around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 2 minutes ago, MarkG said: Ah, yes, the magic 'externalities'. Economist wants to prove something should actually cost $X when it costs $Y, so he invents some 'externality' that he claims costs $X-Y, and job done. One of the biggest scams around. Not all things of value have well-defined/enforced property rights and markets set up to trade them. I agree it's hard/impossible for an economist to tell you what the price of something should be when there is no market. Thinking about externalities doesn't have to mean putting a price on them, it can just be a reminder that markets are not perfect and price signals do not capture all information. The whole philosophy behind HPC is that markets can be wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 1 hour ago, Dorkins said: Entropy-wise it's much easier to have the person producing each item of waste put it in a separate bin as the waste is generated rather than jumble them all up and use energy to separate them again later. We have the technology. https://waste-management-world.com/a/waste-sorting-a-look-at-the-separation-and-sorting-techniques-in-todayrsquos-european-market etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I recycle a lot of card (and I really mean a lot) and it just about makes sense where the alternative is paying to dispose of it. I do also recycle polythene but the sorting required starts making it a lot more tenuous. It would be best if the money and energy went into making it all biodegradable or developing ways of burning it cleanly on site without transporting it anywhere. The whole load one of those council recycling lorries collects is of no real size particularly after it was compacted into bales. They still collect newspapers even though there is no paper mill producing newsprint paper in the UK any longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 3 minutes ago, SNACR said: The whole load one of those council recycling lorries collects is of no real size particularly after it was compacted into bales. They still collect newspapers even though there is no paper mill producing newsprint paper in the UK any longer. Where does it all go then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 6 minutes ago, MrPin said: Where does it all go then? A lot gets exported to Europe and burnt in power stations but for some reason can't be burnt in power stations here. The whole recycling industry is a big bonkers subsidy driven charade. Can't remember the whole details but there was some big white elephant plant built to recycle mineral water bottles but the subsidy got pulled and it wasn't profitable and went bust. It was then all dismantled and sold off and throughout the whole process barely a hundred tonnes of material had been processed. To put it into context this was the last newsprint mill and it consumed 500,000 tonnes of recycled newspapers per year. That's a lot of material to find a new home for - although constantly in sharp decline on it's own but, still.. http://www.kentonline.co.uk/malling/news/aylesford-newsprint-goes-into-administration-32271/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 33 minutes ago, SNACR said: A lot gets exported to Europe and burnt in power stations but for some reason can't be burnt in power stations here. The whole recycling industry is a big bonkers subsidy driven charade. Mr SNACR, you are wise in Pin World. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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