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humdrum

Every EU migrant can stay in UK after Brexit:

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...which makes it all the more likely that the government will have another go at getting rid of Working and Children's Tax Credits.

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Here's the thing. If Britain is no longer in the EU it can change any rule it likes about residency, who gets benefits etc. For example, they can give any EU national the right to work or live, provided they can support themselves but not let them claim in work benefits or out of work benefits.

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As much as 3.6 million fewer people in the UK would be a great benefit to the UK kicking people out who had every reason to believe they wouldn't be kicked out would be wrong, although that shouldn't be extended to any who arrive between now and escape.

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I don't mind at all letting those stay who are contributing, but all benefits must be stopped for those who have not contributed. If, once the benefits have been removed these people can then find gainful employment, paying enough so that they are fully  self supporting, then  fine let em stay.

 

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3 hours ago, davidg said:

Here's the thing. If Britain is no longer in the EU it can change any rule it likes about residency, who gets benefits etc. For example, they can give any EU national the right to work or live, provided they can support themselves but not let them claim in work benefits or out of work benefits.

Indeed.  No recourse to public funds is a very easy condition to place on a residence permit.

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53 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

They should just bar any public support until you have 10 years NI and have paid at least £100k in income tax.

 

53 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

They should just bar any public support until you have 10 years NI and have paid at least £100k in income tax.

And they can and they should. To all migrants esp. ones from subcontinent.

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I don't think India joined the EU yet Mr Spy.

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As an eu citizen in the UK this is good news. I cba with the knowledge test. 

ALL YOUR BENFITS BELONG TO ME 

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It was never an open ended agreement. People came here on the ASSUMPTION it would last forever. If that ends - so be it. 

 

I think anyone who had been in the uk and has 5+ years of NI contributions can stay. Anyone else ? No. Get a visa if you are really that necessary to the future of this country - if not - cheerio.

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7 hours ago, ccc said:

It was never an open ended agreement. People came here on the ASSUMPTION it would last forever. If that ends - so be it.

I think anyone who had been in the uk and has 5+ years of NI contributions can stay. Anyone else ? No. Get a visa if you are really that necessary to the future of this country - if not - cheerio.

 

Of course it was an open ended agreement.  It was EU citizenship.  We were all citizens of the EU and had a reasonable expectation that that would continue. 

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10 hours ago, ccc said:

It was never an open ended agreement. People came here on the ASSUMPTION it would last forever. If that ends - so be it. 

 

I think anyone who had been in the uk and has 5+ years of NI contributions can stay. Anyone else ? No. Get a visa if you are really that necessary to the future of this country - if not - cheerio.

presumably a lot of british pensioners will be sent back in a tit for tat if we do that.

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13 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

 

Of course it was an open ended agreement.  It was EU citizenship.  We were all citizens of the EU and had a reasonable expectation that that would continue. 

No it wasn't. 

 

Tell me a single person who arrived in the UK and was told they could stay here forever whether the UK was in the EU or not ?

 

You get £100k for each one.

 

Fire away :)

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11 hours ago, Saver said:

presumably a lot of british pensioners will be sent back in a tit for tat if we do that.

Fair enough. Bring it on.

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Maybe the easiest solution should be for the other country to refund any benefit payment for their nationals  living elsewhere in the EU.
I, for one, would be happy to pay for the  handful of British doleys living off benefits in Poland - I guess handful is actually 0.

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11 hours ago, Saver said:

presumably a lot of british pensioners will be sent back in a tit for tat if we do that.

Genuine question. Do uk pensioners in Spain get a Spanish pension?  I thought they only got their UK one?

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4 minutes ago, CunningPlan said:

Genuine question. Do uk pensioners in Spain get a Spanish pension?  I thought they only got their UK one?

No.

They also have to pay healthcare.

 

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20 minutes ago, CunningPlan said:

Thanks.  So I am guessing that EU pensioners in UK get their pension from their original country?

Yes.

But most other EU countries expect pensioners to pay for health care during their retirement.

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On 08/10/2016 at 3:32 PM, davidg said:

Here's the thing. If Britain is no longer in the EU it can change any rule it likes about residency, who gets benefits etc. For example, they can give any EU national the right to work or live, provided they can support themselves but not let them claim in work benefits or out of work benefits.

Quid Pro Quo on UK nationals resident in places like Spain and Germany.

Welfare benefits might not be as generous but if we restrict them, we should expect other Governments to do the same.

These places do have a child allowance I think for elegible children if nothing else..

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

Yes.

But most other EU countries expect pensioners to pay for health care during their retirement.

Which is why hospitals are full of very tanned OAPs.

I know one who spends about half the year in Spain but comes back here for his medical treatment.

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So let me get this right, expat in Spain runs out of money at 65, only option is to come home and claim Uk minimum income guarantee retirement benefits and get socially housed. Eastern Europe came to UK at 64 as car washer  and at 65 can't get sent home. Only option is UK minimum income guarantee and socially housed by UK forever.

 

Am I getting this wrong or are we about to financially and anally screwed because it is lose lose for Brits and win win for recent migrants.

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Just now, crashmonitor said:

So let me get this right, expat in Spain runs out of money at 65, only option is to come home and claim Uk minimum income guarantee retirement benefits and get socially housed. Eastern Europe came to Uk at 64 as car washer  and at 65 can't get sent home. Only option is Uk minimum income guarantee and socailly housed by UK forever.

 

Am i getting this wrong or are we about to financially and anally screwed because it is lose lose for Brits and win win for recent migrants.

Ok, I might be being really stupid here and much of the pension changes have passed me by (other than my conviction that I will be shafted in some way).   But, my understanding is that pension is predicated on national insurance contributions. My forecast for pension is 122 pw but if I pay for the new stamp for eight years, I'll get the full 155. 

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No it isn't predicated on anything. How do you think someone who has contributed zero gets a UK pension and is housed. There will always be a minimum income guarantee, otherwise you have got to bring back workhouses or let people with out an NIC record starve.

If you can't send a migrant home then you have to provided a pension and home, end of.

 

Sure a national insurance record will mean something if you have savings or private pension priovision.

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