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geezer466

AIRBNB Channel 4 Documentary

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Was browsing the Ch4 catchup earlier and came across this documentary all about airbnb.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/airbnb-dream-or-nightmare

I thought it would mainly be about the usual horror stories from users and hosts but it delved that much deeper and led to other other website discoveries. Airbnb could well be changing the whole housing supply in our cities although the data at the moment only seems to be about London.

I know we have touched on this previously (search function doesn't throw up much) and some posters on here sing their praised but it seems to me the platform is becoming a second platform for BTL letters to let without tenancy agreement achieve returns and sit on the capital growth for very little risk.

Whomever wrote the code to extrapolate the data used by this website has gone to a hell of a lot of trouble..

http://insideairbnb.com/london/#

Quote

Airbnb in London

Inside Airbnb: London data at June 2 2016, shows that 36%, or more than a third of the "entire homes/flats" listed on Airbnb (7,815 out of 21,861) are being rented out to tourists for more than 90 nights out of the year, in fact, an average of 191 nights.

Many of these are illegal under the new laws that legitmise the "sharing economy" in London, but supposedly protect London's housing supply for permanent residents.

43% of the entire homes being listed in London on Airbnb (9,305 of 21,861) are by hosts that have more than one listing - it's simply impossible that they are Londoners renting out the home in which they live, a key claim of proponents of the sharing economy, like Airbnb.

The data shows widespread use of Airbnb to operate full-time hotels out of residential properties - in violation of the law and the loss of housing for regular Londoners.

 

Didn't Osborne stand up at the despatch box last budget and make things a hell of a lot easier for these shysters?

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There's a 1 bed flat I saw in Belfast that would get no more than £700 a month rent, and it was bringing in £2300 for the month of September.

BuyToAirBnb could be the new 'thing'. But you do have to run it like a business; takes up much more of your time than BTL. 

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The leader of Camden Council appeared in the documentary... She even let slip this is becoming a massive problem for London and more needs to be done to control it.

As it stands the law says no more than 90 nights a year per property on short lets. Many if not most are exceeding this and there is no way of determining the actual nights booked.

6 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

There's a 1 bed flat I saw in Belfast that would get no more than £700 a month rent, and it was bringing in £2300 for the month of September.

BuyToAirBnb could be the new 'thing'. But you do have to run it like a business; takes up much more of your time than BTL. 

It would appear many 'letting hosts' on airbnb have a number of properties and are indeed operating it as a business and clearly cocking a snoop to the 90 nights rule.

http://insideairbnb.com/london/index.html?neighbourhood=Westminster&filterEntireHomes=false&filterHighlyAvailable=false&filterRecentReviews=false&filterMultiListings=false#

In this example 'Tom' either has 51 rooms in the same house or 1 room in 51 properties or somewhere in between......

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I wonder if even airbnb thought the business would grow to its current size - along with the numbers of people who 'abuse the system'.

It has facilitated the considerable growth of city trips. (There are good growth graphics on the website.) In Paris there are now half as many airbnbs as there are hotel rooms.

It's not only the pressure on housing. An article in Spiegel - Crowding Out The Locals - discusses how unregulated tourism can become quite unpopular. Ada Colau was elected Mayor of Barcelona largely on her promise to take back the city for residents. 

There's the example of Venice too:  Since 1980, the population has shrunk from 120,000 to only 60,000. In return, 80,000 individual and cruise-ship tourists visit the city of canals and lagoons every day. Venice, the respected Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung newspaper recently wrote, has been largely "mummified" and mutated into a "walkable postcard landscape."

It's a big issue.

Crowding Out the Locals: Are Weekend Trips Ruining Europe's Cities?

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So are hotels suffering as a result, or is Airbnb creating an extra market for people who wouldn't come otherwise?  If the hotels are losing customers it should presumably be visible in the form of lower prices, or maybe closures.

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6 minutes ago, Scunnered said:

So are hotels suffering as a result, or is Airbnb creating an extra market for people who wouldn't come otherwise?

It may depend upon the city, but it would seem from the Spiegel article that the latter is true for places like London, Paris, Prague etc. Berlin and Barcelona, two hugely popular destinations. have both cracked down on airbnb.

One can appreciate a certain ire on the part of hotels that have to meet all kinds of fire, hygiene, insurance regulations and so on that the airbnb's don't.

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Discussed on another thread when on TV. As I've been saying for a long time now from my personal observations - Edinburgh is massively over saturated with air bnb.

 

Good to see from this programme the numbers. Second most listings in the uk after London. And I think of the top of my head proportionality on population - 4 times as many as London.

 

I've tried to tell my Pal all this whose burd thinks it's the roads to riches - but she clearly doesn't have a clue.

 

And her 'business plan' is moving all their stuff into an outside cellar they just paid 6 THOUSAND POUNDS to do up for this purpose - and to go and live with her mum just outside Edinburgh for anytime they get bookings - wtf !!

 

They haven't even been in this place - their first bought together - for one year - and shes had it up for rent for 21 WEEKS !!

 

10 days booked so far. Wow.

And she still can't see what a dumb idea it is. I mean ffs its their first home. They should be enjoying it rather than waiting and expecting to be turfed out of it on a whim coz a couple of Swiss fancy a few nights in Edinburgh.

******ing bizarre if you ask me. Unless they were both unemployed and had no other choice of course - which isn't the case.

 

Anyway - just a brief insight into some of the people getting carried away by it all.

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10 hours ago, Scunnered said:

So are hotels suffering as a result, or is Airbnb creating an extra market for people who wouldn't come otherwise?  If the hotels are losing customers it should presumably be visible in the form of lower prices, or maybe closures.

The point of this thread isn't about that. It is about the hoovering up of rental property in London which is being presented on the platform.

That removes it from the potential rental market..

Less property + rising demand = well you know the answer to that..........

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Same in Australia. Seemingly whole blocks of holiday  apartments, on the east coast, offered for rent by the same person. Often pretending to be a caretaker who owns just one of the apartments as an investment. And being a so called caretaker however, gives him the cover to have total access to the building.

They even show different photos of themselves in the host profile, but it is obvious they are the same person.

Why should Airbnb police themselves, when they are raking it in.

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Airbnb recently raised some funding that valued it at $25 billion. It's got no assets and is only an agent. I doubt there will be much governbankment intervention in it yet because it's a huge money making oppotunity. The right faces will short it after it floats, then lobby for new laws to bring it down.

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On ‎07‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 8:41 PM, geezer466 said:

 it seems to me the platform is becoming a second platform for BTL letters to let without tenancy agreement achieve returns and sit on the capital growth for very little risk.

 

Article in today's "Sunday Times" about exactly this.  Decent sized detached house in Golders Green, rather run down.  Apparently contains 9 "holiday rental" rooms on airbnb, plus another one in the garden shed.  Just HMO slumlordism in a new guise.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/focus/i-thought-it-was-a-hostel-you-never-see-the-same-people-83qkl0zcf

(paywall, but you can read enough to get the idea clearly)

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