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spyguy

'Rich' people who are probably brassic

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That Duncan Ballantynes on telly, revisiting old houses.

Now, hes a good example of someone  who, when its all netted up, probably has a 0 value. Maybe even negative.

Branson is another. Lucked out on the planes, sold for the cash, must e running out.

 

Who else?

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I barely notice that.

 

I have the odd read of the IIIforum for hhe new Potash mine.

Ive tried explaining that 99% of AIM companies are a con.

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I think the past 10 years has been a boom for lots of the 'entrepeneurs' - the clever ones have probably sold into the boom and made squillions. I think Branson is a prime example of this as is the BHS bloke. Both are now living in sunnier climes and very wealthy no doubt.

As long as IRs remain ultra low any dubious 'rich' people will continue to be OK. We will only find out the fakers and charlatans when IRs rise.

What is a charlatan though. I watched a Sky interview today where some young bloke in the US was having a go at being made bankrupt in the past. It was the sort of look down your nose kind of thing that public sector workers do in this country IMPO. In truth, many of the world's richest and best business people have gone bust several times.

I recall watching a 'Wicker's World' many years ago where he visited the US and looked at Brits doing business in the US. He talked to a Brit who had opened a distrillery and the Brit said something like "They don't respect you here until you have gone bankrupt a few times.".

When IRs rise a lot of business people hailed as gurus will go bankrupt, and no doubt they will be ridiculed as being crooks or dodgy, but I susppect that most of them will be people who simply took a risk and went out on a limb. I abhore the public sector mentality in the UK where public sector types think that every business person is dodgy. Wish I had come to this conclusion when I was 16 and not until my 40s.

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7 minutes ago, One-percent said:

As they say tmt, when the tide goes out, we will be able to,see who,was swimming naked :blink:

Yep. The low IR environment has saved vast numbers of people. If we are honest it probably would have saved Bernie Madoff and his kids if he had just had a bit more time.

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1 minute ago, The Masked Tulip said:

Yep. The low IR environment has saved vast numbers of people. If we are honest it probably would have saved Bernie Madoff and his kids if he had just had a bit more time.

Screwing the rest of us over 

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4 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

Yep. The low IR environment has saved vast numbers of people. If we are honest it probably would have saved Bernie Madoff and his kids if he had just had a bit more time.

Wasn't Madoff's crime that he robbed the banks as opposed to everyone else? and hence an example had to be made

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9 minutes ago, One-percent said:

If so, my hero! 

Enjoy!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_investors_in_Bernard_L._Madoff_Investment_Securities

Madoff investor investor type potential exposure source
Fairfield Sentry (Fairfield Greenwich Group) US investment firm; Madoff feeder fund $7.5 billion firm statement/Wall Street Journal (WSJ)[8]
Grupo Santander Spanish bank $3.5 billion El Pais
Kingate Management Bermuda hedge fund; Madoff feeder fund $3.5 billion Bloomberg
Rye Investment Management (Tremont Group) US hedge fund; Madoff feeder fund $3.1 billion WSJ[8]
Bank Medici of Austria Austrian bank $2.8 billion Bloomberg
Ascot Partners US hedge fund; Madoff feeder fund $1.8 billion WSJ[8]
Access International Advisors US hedge fund; Madoff feeder fund $1.4 billion Bloomberg
Fortis Bank Nederland Dutch bank $1.35 billion firm statement/WSJ[8]
Thema Fund Irish hedge fund; Madoff feeder fund $1.1 billion[9][10] media reports
HSBC British bank $1 billion firm statement/WSJ[8]
Genevalor Benbassat & Cie Swiss bank; Madoff feeder fund $935 million Le Temps
Aurelia Finance Swiss bank; Madoff feeder fund $800 million Le Temps
Union Bancaire Privée Swiss bank $700 million WSJ[8]
Natixis French bank $600 million Bloomberg
Royal Bank of Scotland British bank $600 million published reports
Sterling Equities investment firm $500 million New York Post
BNP Paribas French bank $475.3 million Bloomberg
BBVA Spanish bank $404 million Reuters
Fix Asset Management US alternatives firm $400 million firm statement
Ruth and Carl J. Shapiro US individuals $400 million WSJ
RMF (Man Group) UK hedge fund $360 million firm statement/WSJ[8]
Nomura Japanese broker $358.9 million WSJ[8]
Reichmuth Matterhorn Swiss private bank $330 million Bloomberg
Normal Holdings   $302 million StreetInsider.com
Pioneer Alternative Investments Irish alternatives firm $280 million Bloomberg
Maxam Capital Management US fund of hedge funds; Madoff feeder fund $280 million WSJ[8]
J.P. Jeanneret Associates investment adviser $250 million The Post Standard (www.syracuse.com)
EIM Group European bank $230 million Le Temps/WSJ[8]
Ira Rennert US individual $200 million FINalternatives
Bank Austria Austrian bank $192.1 million Der Standard
Tremont Capital Management (Tremont Group) US fund of hedge funds $190 million firm statement
M&B Capital Advisers Spanish money manager $187.9 million El Mundo
Jerome Fisher (Nine West founder) individual $150 million media reports
Carl and Ruth Shapiro Family Foundation charity $145 million Boston Globe
Yeshiva University US Jewish university endowment $140 million Bloomberg
Aozora Bank Japanese bank $137 million WSJ[8]
AXA French insurer less than $135 million Reuters
Crédit Mutuel French bank $124 million Bloomberg
Dexia Franco-Belgian bank $106.9 million firm statement
UniCredit Italian financial firm $100 million Bloomberg
Hadassah Jewish charity $90 million WSJ[8]
Unione di Banche Italiane Italian bank $84.9 million Bloomberg
Nordea Swedish bank $65 million Reuters
Hyposwiss Private Bank Genève Swiss private bank $50 million Reuters/WSJ[8]
Korea Life Insurance Co. Korean insurer $50 million Yonhap News
Banque Benedict Hentsch (fr) Swiss private bank $47.5 million firm statement
Royal Dutch Shell Anglo-Dutch pension $45 million Reuters
Great Eastern Holdings Singapore bank $43.9 million Reuters
Town of Fairfield, Connecticut US pension fund $42 million WSJ[8]
Royal Bank of Canada Canadian bank $40.4 million Globe and Mail
Wolosoff Foundation charity $38 million FINalternatives
Bramdean Asset Management asset manager $31.2 million WSJ[8]
family of Sarah Chew family office $30 million Time
Mortimer B. Zuckerman Charitable Remainder Trust (New York Daily News owner's charity) US charity $30 million CNBC
Arthur I. and Sydelle F. Meyer Charitable Foundation charity $29.2 million Palm Beach Post
Sumitomo Life Insurance Co. Japanese insurer $22 million WSJ[8]
Madoff Family Foundation charity $19 million WSJ
Los Angeles Jewish Community Foundation Jewish charity $18 million WSJ[8]
Foundation for Humanity (Elie Wiesel's charity) charity $15.2 million WSJ[8]
America-Israel Cultural Foundation US-Israeli charity $15 million New York Times[11]
KSM Capital Advisors investment firm $15 million Indianapolis Business Journal
The Phoenix Holdings Israeli financial services company $15 million firm statement
Harel Insurance Investments and Financial Services Israeli insurer $14.2 million WSJ[8]
Alicia Koplowitz individual $13.7 million Europa Press
Groupama French insurer $13.6 million firm statement
Société Générale French bank less than $13.5 million Reuters
Bâloise Swiss insurer $13 million WSJ[8]
Lautenberg Family Foundation charity $12.8 million media reports
Credit Agricole French bank less than $12.32 million WSJ[8]
Kas Bank bank $12.3 million firm statement
Marion and Elie Wiesel US individuals $12 million WSJ
Massachusetts Pension Reserves Investment Management US pension $12 million Reuters
Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group Japanese financial institution $11 million Bloomberg
Richard Spring individual $11 million WSJ[8]
Hampshire County Council pension $10.7 million IPE
RAB Capital hedge fund $10 million WSJ[8]
Richard Roth individual $10 million FINalternatives
United Jewish Endowment Fund Jewish charity less than $10 million JTA
Banco Popolare Italian bank $9.86 million WSJ[8]
Korea Teachers Pension Korean pension $9.1 million WSJ[8]
Robert I. Lappin Charitable Foundation Jewish charity $8 million Washington Post
Michael Roth individual $7.5 million FINalternatives
Chais Family Foundation Jewish charity $7 million WSJ
Jewish Federation of Greater Los Angeles Jewish charity $6.4 million media reports
Technion-Israel Institute of Technology Israeli university $6.4 million Globes
Vincent Tchenguiz British individual $6.3 million FINalternatives
The Ramaz School Jewish school $6 million WSJ[8]
Irwin Kellner (named plaintiff on first lawsuit against Madoff) individual $6 million lawsuit
Julian J. Levitt Foundation Jewish charity $6 million WSJ
North Shore-Long Island Jewish Health System US pension fund $5.7 million WSJ[8]
Stony Brook University Foundation US university endowment $5.4 million Bloomberg
David Berger individual $5 million FINalternatives
Maimonides School (Boston) Jewish school $5 million Bloomberg
Neue Privat Bank Swiss bank $5 million WSJ[8]
Congregation Kehilath Jeshurun (New York) synagogue $3.5 million WSJ[8]
Dorset County Pension Fund UK pension $3.5 million LocalGov.co.uk
Caja Madrid bank $3.1 million Cinco Días
Clal Insurance Israeli insurer $3.1 million WSJ[8]
Merseyside Pension Fund pension $3 million media reports
New York Law School US law school $3 million lawsuit
Roger Peskin individual $3 million AP
Swiss Reinsurance Co. Swiss reinsurer $3 million WSJ[8]
Frank Black investor less than $3 million lawsuit
Global Specialised Opportunities 1 Bermuda fund $2.8 million fund statement
Banca March bank $2.7 million Cinco Días
American Friends of Yad Sarah Jewish charity $1.5 million WSJ[8]
Caisse des dépôts et consignations French bank $1.38 million Bloomberg
Robert and Sarah Chew individual $1.2 million Time
SAR Academy (New York) US school $1.2 million Bloomberg News
Harold Roitenberg individual $1 million Minneapolis Star-Tribune
Ira Roth US individual $1 million WSJ[8]
Arnold and Joan Sinkin individuals $1 million The Guardian
Steven Abbott individual less than $1 million WSJ
Allegretto Fund hedge fund $790,000 firm statement
Mediobanca Italian bank $671,000 WSJ[8]
Stanford Financial Group International financial services firm that managed a Ponzi scheme separate from the Madoff Ponzi scheme $600,000 (£400,000) The Times
Allianz Global Investors German investment firm n/a Citywire
Austin Capital Management fund of hedge funds n/a Reuters
AWD financial services provider n/a Citywire
Kevin Bacon and Kyra Sedgwick (actors) US individuals n/a New York magazine
Banesto Spanish bank n/a Reuters
Ed Blumenfeld (Long Island real estate developer) US individual n/a Long Island Business News
Norman Braman (former Philadelphia Eagles owner) US individual n/a WSJ
Chair Family Foundation charity n/a FINalternatives
Engelbardt family family office n/a Variety
Erste Bank bank n/a Der Standard
Fair Food Foundation charity n/a Crain's Detroit Business
Leonard Feinstein (Bed Bath & Beyond co-founder) individual n/a Newark Star-Ledger
Stephen Fine individual n/a Reuters
Barbara Flood individual n/a National Public Radio
Avram and Carol Goldberg (Stop n Shop founders) US individuals n/a Reuters
Joyce Z. Greenberg individual n/a Houston Chronicle
Bank Gutmann AG bank n/a Citywire
members of the Hillcrest Country Club (St. Paul, Minn.) US individuals n/a Star-Tribune
INTAC Global Preservation Hedge Portfolio (via Rye Investment Management) fund of hedge funds n/a fund documents
JEHT Foundation US charity n/a statement
Henry Kaufman (former chief economist at Salomon Brothers) US individual n/a WSJ
KBC Bank Belgian bank n/a firm statement
Sandy Koufax US individual n/a Associated Press
Knowsley MBC pension n/a LocalGov.co.uk
Rodger Krouse (co-founder of private equity firmSun Capital Partners, Inc) US individual n/a New York Times[12]
Last Atlantis Capital Management fund of hedge funds n/a fund documents
Kenneth and Jeanne Levy-Church (donors to Fair Food and JEHT foundations) individuals n/a Jewish Journal
Leonard Litwin US individual n/a Bloomberg
Liverpool City Council UK pension n/a LocalGov.co.uk
LLBW bank n/a Citywire
Loeb family family office n/a CNBC
Mirabaud bank n/a Le Temps
The Moriah Fund charity n/a FINalternatives
MorseLife charity n/a Palm Beach Post
Notz, Stucki & Cie bank n/a Le Temps
members of the Oak Ridge Country Club (Hopkins, Minn.) US individuals n/a Star-Tribune
Optimal Investment Services (Grupo Santander) alternatives firm n/a Bloomberg
Palm Beach Country Club US country club n/a CNBC
Eric Roth (screenwriter) US individual n/a Los Angeles Times
St. Helens MBC UK pension n/a LocalGov.co.uk
Sefton MBC UK pension n/a LocalGov.co.uk
SNS Reaal Groep financial services firm n/a Bloomberg
family of former New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer US individuals n/a Clusterstock.com
Symphony Fund (via Pioneer Alternative Investments) fund of hedge funds n/a fund documents
Jeff Tucker (Stone Bridge horse farm owner, Fairfield Greenwich Group founding partner) US individual n/a WNYT television
Thyssen family family office n/a Clusterstock.com
UBS Swiss bank n/a Reuters
Lawrence Velvel (dean emeritus,[13] Massachusetts Law School) US individual n/a WSJ
Wilpon family (New York Mets owner) family office n/a WSJ
Wunderkinder Foundation (Steven Spielberg's charity) charity n/a WSJ
Louis van Gaal (football manager) individual €6 million De Telegraaf

:lol: :lol: :lol:

If you're gonna go down, take 'em with you

 

As I said - he fcked with the big boys

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2 minutes ago, knock out johnny said:

Enjoy!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_investors_in_Bernard_L._Madoff_Investment_Securities

 

If you're gonna go down, take 'em with ou

 

As I said - he fcked with the big boys

Feck! No wonder they took him down, there are a lot of banks on that list. Couldn't think of a more deserving lot lol. 

 

Next, soros? 

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LvG for EUR6m - must have been a lifetime's savings!

Aside from that Madoff clearly worked his Jewish connections for investors.  What a snake that bloke was...

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On 26/09/2016 at 9:16 PM, One-percent said:

As they say tmt, when the tide goes out, we will be able to,see who,was swimming naked :blink:

Where you watching them from at the moment? 

My position has been overwhelmed by floods of QE.  Don't think I'll be able to see anything from treading water even further out.

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8 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

Hampshire County Council for $10m?  What on earth were they doing putting money into a fund like Madoff's?

 

 

Does it matter they have the council tax payer as back up to fund the promised super duper gold plated pension packages of their officers. I guess knowing you are gambling with the council's residents money rather than your own is a enough good incentive to give Madoff a bash.

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57 minutes ago, crashmonitor said:

 

 

Does it matter they have the council tax payer as back up to fund the promised super duper gold plated pension packages of their officers. I guess knowing you are gambling with the council's residents money rather than your own is a enough good incentive to give Madoff a bash.

Didn't a uk local authority lose a shedload of money when the bank when t!ts up in Iceland?

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58 minutes ago, knock out johnny said:

Didn't a uk local authority lose a shedload of money when the bank when t!ts up in Iceland?

Loads did on the face of it but a preferential deal was agreed and they were getting it paid back over time with a decent return.  I don't know whether this was confidential or just not publicised.

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