Hatfield / Welwyn Garden City

[aerobubbles]

A thread exists for this area, but the last post dates from 2008. I'm starting a new one to better keep track of what's happening as these areas are huge bubbles.

My partner and I bought an end of terrace near Hatfield station for under £150k in 2010. Hatfield isn't actually a desirable area. Surrounding areas are more attractive. Hatfield has very much become a rental town. Large influx of eastern europeans and in certain areas a large influx of students. The town gets rough at night. Becomes rough sometimes during the day too when the EEs congregate and start drinking.

With that said, similar houses nearby to ours have been advertised for over £350k in recent times.

While we considered upsizing (due to a second child), we ultimately decided the difference we would have to pay to upsize within similar proximity to the station was too big a risk due to the possibility of a crash in the near future and how hard it would hit an area such as this.

We're both breathing a big sigh of relief that we decided to stay put in light of all the sales falling through and reductions being made since the referendum vote.

To give an idea of how silly things are:

- A new development of flats right next to Hatfield station have been priced over £300k each. They're right next to a constantly busy road (due to the station, small offices nearby in all directions and a busy intersection used to access Welwyn Garden City). I think some poor sods completed before the vote. The ones that weren't sold are now being reduced- http://www.rightmove.co.uk/new-homes-for-sale/property-61439135.html

- This semi, near the station, was originally £600k- http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-59719112.html

They've since had to reduce it and instruct a second agent. Thankfully no fool has been roped in yet. A detached on the same street sold for £500k less than a year ago (which is already stupid money). But somehow this semi demands close to £600k within less than a year.

- Terraced houses that aren't within walking distance of anything (the station, town) are being chanced at £320k-£350k- http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-55170091.html

These examples above, at the same or even somewhat less amounts, the locals wouldn't touch. Yet they were flying off the shelves before June, presumably due to buyers who couldn't afford London, but wanted to get on the ladder somewhere commutable, and those cashing in on silly London prices and moving elsewhere. Unfortunately they were hoodwinked into paying premium prices for properties that soon won't be worth anything close to what they paid.

As mentioned above, Hatfield is a huge rental town. Lots and lots of BTL due to the EE and student populations. So we're about to see a double whammy of no sales due to little market confidence, combined with an influx of BTL properties following the tax changes.

Strap in!

[One-percent]

A thread exists for this area, but the last post dates from 2008. I'm starting a new one to better keep track of what's happening as these areas are huge bubbles.

My partner and I bought an end of terrace near Hatfield station for under £150k in 2010. Hatfield isn't actually a desirable area. Surrounding areas are more attractive. Hatfield has very much become a rental town. Large influx of eastern europeans and in certain areas a large influx of students. The town gets rough at night. Becomes rough sometimes during the day too when the EEs congregate and start drinking.

With that said, similar houses nearby to ours have been advertised for over £350k in recent times.

While we considered upsizing (due to a second child), we ultimately decided the difference we would have to pay to upsize within similar proximity to the station was too big a risk due to the possibility of a crash in the near future and how hard it would hit an area such as this.

We're both breathing a big sigh of relief that we decided to stay put in light of all the sales falling through and reductions being made since the referendum vote.

To give an idea of how silly things are:

- A new development of flats right next to Hatfield station have been priced over £300k each. They're right next to a constantly busy road (due to the station, small offices nearby in all directions and a busy intersection used to access Welwyn Garden City). I think some poor sods completed before the vote. The ones that weren't sold are now being reduced- http://www.rightmove.co.uk/new-homes-for-sale/property-61439135.html

- This semi, near the station, was originally £600k- http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-59719112.html

They've since had to reduce it and instruct a second agent. Thankfully no fool has been roped in yet. A detached on the same street sold for £500k less than a year ago (which is already stupid money). But somehow this semi demands close to £600k within less than a year.

- Terraced houses that aren't within walking distance of anything (the station, town) are being chanced at £320k-£350k- http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-55170091.html

These examples above, at the same or even somewhat less amounts, the locals wouldn't touch. Yet they were flying off the shelves before June, presumably due to buyers who couldn't afford London, but wanted to get on the ladder somewhere commutable, and those cashing in on silly London prices and moving elsewhere. Unfortunately they were hoodwinked into paying premium prices for properties that soon won't be worth anything close to what they paid.

As mentioned above, Hatfield is a huge rental town. Lots and lots of BTL due to the EE and student populations. So we're about to see a double whammy of no sales due to little market confidence, combined with an influx of BTL properties following the tax changes.

Strap in!

Not sure that you are correct with your analysis that prices are being pushed up people being priced out of London. I'm on the east London Essex boarder, nice overground into centre and the prices in you link are surpassing those in my area. It might be more about delusional madness

[bobbo]

More like the Harpenden, St Albans bubble. Which is driven by London. Hatfield is certainly more desirable than Luton and it is even getting ridiculous there.

Also Hertfordshire is more expensive than neighbouring counties.

[aerobubbles]

Not sure that you are correct with your analysis that prices are being pushed up people being priced out of London. I'm on the east London Essex boarder, nice overground into centre and the prices in you link are surpassing those in my area. It might be more about delusional madness

I surmised London as I know the Welwyn Garden City bubble has had input from the London crowd (estate agent friend who operates within WGC said he had many sales from such people). Hatfield's a station closer to Kings Cross so slightly cheaper fare and travel time, and because it's less desirable than WGC the properties are comparatively less.

Hatfield station has also become tremendously more busy over the last few years during commuter hours.

Whatever the reason though, you're right, it's delusional madness.

[aerobubbles]

More like the Harpenden, St Albans bubble. Which is driven by London. Hatfield is certainly more desirable than Luton and it is even getting ridiculous there.

Also Hertfordshire is more expensive than neighbouring counties.

We had a brief look in surrounding areas to see if upsizing elsewhere was an option. St Albans was shocking. Bashed up, tiny homes commanding half a million+!

Why it took a referendum vote for people to see the madness is beyond me.

[aerobubbles]

Looking at sold prices from July (presumably they had exchanged before the vote, so pulling out was no longer a feasible option and they had to proceed to complete in July):

- http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=42306963&sale=87808911&country=england

Sold for a £60k increase in just a year!

- http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=53603449&sale=87809565&country=england

£235k increase in four years!

- http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=53603449&sale=87809565&country=england

£560k for a terraced! If I remember correctly it was advertised for £525k. Some lunatics got into a bidding war and pushed it over £560k. The area is the more desirable part of Hatfield and it's a nice enough design, but a terraced leasehold at just the asking price should have made alarm bells ring.

[aerobubbles]

- http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=53603449&sale=87809565&country=england

£235k increase in four years!

That should be five years, not four. Can't find an edit button

[Blooman]

Glad you opened this as i could never find the area i am looking in. Have to say i see early signs of sentiment changing in places like Harpenden and St. Albans, but not where I am looking on the west side of Welwyn Garden City. I am still seeing houses going to sealed bids and it is depressing.

[Credulous]

I was born in the QE2 hospital in WGC and raised in Hatfield until I was 11. Used to live on Ellenbrook Lane, and had a lovely childhood in that area.

Left in 1992/3 when the BAe factory shut and my Dad's job was relocated to Woodford in Cheshire. Returned for a visit a couple of years back having not been there since the 90s. Galleria was still a complete waste of time. Surprised to see the 'modernist' swimming pool still standing.

Town centre had not had any investment since the 90's, and three bed semis in the Ellenbrook area were circa £350k. I'd imagine given the above worth a lot more now. I'd be scared to find out what my parents four bed detached was now 'worth'. Not sold since they left (pre-data on LR). I think they sold for £130-40k.

Made me sad to think that the life I took for granted as a kid seemed pretty inaccessible to all but the richest now. And as other people have pointed out, Hatfield is hardly St Albans!

Would be very undesirable moving back to the SE now given the drop in living standards my family would face (no plans to just interesting that relocating back to where I was born is not a feasible option for me).

All was interesting food for thought.

[aerobubbles]

Glad you opened this as i could never find the area i am looking in. Have to say i see early signs of sentiment changing in places like Harpenden and St. Albans, but not where I am looking on the west side of Welwyn Garden City. I am still seeing houses going to sealed bids and it is depressing.

No problem, hope it serves some use.

I'm not familiar with the West Side. Is that near the station?

I suspect the sealed bids are bravado. Sellers won't be putting in asking price offers, let alone higher offers, in this market.

An estate agent I know who operates in WGC said everything's dried up following the referendum and the reductions they've made so far are expected to continue. Only reason they're holding off for now is the autumn statement, but they're almost certain market confidence won't be restored no matter what is announced and sellers will therefore be advised to make further reductions.

Somewhat related too is the discussion regarding Foxtons. The overwhelming consensus on share dealing forums is to dump Foxtons. A further share price reduction of 50%+ isn't out of the question. That's how much the London market is expected to contract, and don't forget it will be compounded by luxury builds that are almost complete but not yet on the market, plus the upcoming BTL dumping following the changes. And as it contracts more and more Hatfield and WGC will feel the squeeze even harder.

[aerobubbles]

I was born in the QE2 hospital in WGC and raised in Hatfield until I was 11. Used to live on Ellenbrook Lane, and had a lovely childhood in that area.

Left in 1992/3 when the BAe factory shut and my Dad's job was relocated to Woodford in Cheshire. Returned for a visit a couple of years back having not been there since the 90s. Galleria was still a complete waste of time. Surprised to see the 'modernist' swimming pool still standing.

Town centre had not had any investment since the 90's, and three bed semis in the Ellenbrook area were circa £350k. I'd imagine given the above worth a lot more now. I'd be scared to find out what my parents four bed detached was now 'worth'. Not sold since they left (pre-data on LR). I think they sold for £130-40k.

Made me sad to think that the life I took for granted as a kid seemed pretty inaccessible to all but the richest now. And as other people have pointed out, Hatfield is hardly St Albans!

Would be very undesirable moving back to the SE now given the drop in living standards my family would face (no plans to just interesting that relocating back to where I was born is not a feasible option for me).

All was interesting food for thought.

Ellenbrook is a desirable area. I know a couple of people that live there very happily.

I've seen 3 bed semis selling for 450k-500k not long ago. The gardens tend to be sizable.

You're right about the galleria and the town. In reality Hatfield is incomparable to St Albans and also WGC, but you wouldn't know it from the house prices. Might become even more incomparable once all the BTL floods the market. I'm sure there's some BTL in St Albans and WGC, but it won't nearly be as highly leveraged as Hatfield is.

[Blooman]

No problem, hope it serves some use.

I'm not familiar with the West Side. Is that near the station?

I suspect the sealed bids are bravado. Sellers won't be putting in asking price offers, let alone higher offers, in this market.

An estate agent I know who operates in WGC said everything's dried up following the referendum and the reductions they've made so far are expected to continue. Only reason they're holding off for now is the autumn statement, but they're almost certain market confidence won't be restored no matter what is announced and sellers will therefore be advised to make further reductions.

Somewhat related too is the discussion regarding Foxtons. The overwhelming consensus on share dealing forums is to dump Foxtons. A further share price reduction of 50%+ isn't out of the question. That's how much the London market is expected to contract, and don't forget it will be compounded by luxury builds that are almost complete but not yet on the market, plus the upcoming BTL dumping following the changes. And as it contracts more and more Hatfield and WGC will feel the squeeze even harder

The West side is near the station Al8 postcode. I know that these all went to sealed bids and also all went over the asking price http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-56034406.html http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-55429417.html http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-55433569. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-54144940.html So the market might be slowing down and i am seeing signs, but not where i live and want to buy. the first link was on Friday as well.

[aerobubbles]

On 9/25/2016 at 0:13 PM, Blooman said:

The West side is near the station Al8 postcode. I know that these all went to sealed bids and also all went over the asking price http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-56034406.html http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-55429417.html http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-55433569. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-54144940.html So the market might be slowing down and i am seeing signs, but not where i live and want to buy. the first link was on Friday as well.

Thanks for those.

If the agents said they went for over the asking price, I would wait for the LR data to confirm. It's not in their interest to make buyers aware that they're only receiving lower offers which are being accepted.

I've been hearing the complete opposite. And I don't see why WGC would buck the London slowdown. Unless there are a few fools still left out there.

[Blooman]

I am hoping that it is the last of the London ripple, but it is hard to keep telling my wife we are going down in price, when all she can see is sealed bid after sealed bid and us offering (not enough on purpose) to get the property but can assure you I missed out on 3 of those places and each time offered at or over the asking price.  

[Nabby81]

See Luton is mentioned here , madness with prices here but not seeing alot of reductions ..Locals on a Facebook group I follow fall into 2 camps those like myself who are dismayed at being priced out the others bemoan fact we are not as expensive as st albans yet so we still have higher prices to come ...

3 bed houses have jumped 100k in 3 years and rents have followed likewise a nice 3bed can be up to 1300 a month now.Seems lost on people that wages are not going to go up and soon london wages won't cut it when the mortgage provider factors in affordability with every increasing train fares .

As for Hatfield all I know of it is overated Galleria shopping centre 

[aerobubbles]

On 10/1/2016 at 1:19 PM, Blooman said:

I am hoping that it is the last of the London ripple, but it is hard to keep telling my wife we are going down in price, when all she can see is sealed bid after sealed bid and us offering (not enough on purpose) to get the property but can assure you I missed out on 3 of those places and each time offered at or over the asking price.  

Tell your wife:

- prices are at their peak

- sales are falling

- publicly listed estate agents are issuing profit warnings and have themselves forecasted prices to decrease

I haven't looked through the recent local data yet, but a quick glance of properties in Hatfield over the last week shows re-listings, instructing second agents, reductions, and new listings at prices and in areas where homes already aren't selling. And then we have the BTL impact to come. That particularly area of WGC will be hit soon enough.

[aerobubbles]

On 10/5/2016 at 6:38 PM, Nabby81 said:

See Luton is mentioned here , madness with prices here but not seeing alot of reductions ..Locals on a Facebook group I follow fall into 2 camps those like myself who are dismayed at being priced out the others bemoan fact we are not as expensive as st albans yet so we still have higher prices to come ...

3 bed houses have jumped 100k in 3 years and rents have followed likewise a nice 3bed can be up to 1300 a month now.Seems lost on people that wages are not going to go up and soon london wages won't cut it when the mortgage provider factors in affordability with every increasing train fares .

As for Hatfield all I know of it is overated Galleria shopping centre 

I don't know the Luton area too well, other than some articles I've read months back how it was one of the highest increasing areas in the country.

Is there lots of BTL? If so it sounds like it might crash harder than Welwyn Hafield.

An overrated Galleria shopping centre is pretty accurate. Don't tell the London crowd though otherwise they won't pay £350k for these amazing properties:

- http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-62272292.html

- http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-56382850.html

 

 

 

[Nabby81]

On 10/8/2016 at 1:39 PM, aerobubbles said:

I don't know the Luton area too well, other than some articles I've read months back how it was one of the highest increasing areas in the country.

Is there lots of BTL? If so it sounds like it might crash harder than Welwyn Hafield.

An overrated Galleria shopping centre is pretty accurate. Don't tell the London crowd though otherwise they won't pay £350k for these amazing properties:

- http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-62272292.html

- http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-56382850.html

 

 

 

Lots of BTL and going to get worse and there are literally over a 1000 new flats from various developments all planned 

Utter shit like this one 

http://www.galliardhomes.com/Carlton-House?gclid=CPbyiYfF0M8CFQs8Gwod9zoLew

 

190k for a one bed with a kitchin that has space only for a 2 hob burner, its also across from another industrial site ( this is an ex office building ) which has already complained about lack of traffic provisioning  for the site oh and the cherry on the cake is the recycle facility across the road.

[bobbo]

In my mind the whole thameslink line is at risk (and as such WGC / Hatfield). If all the developments that are visible when you catch the train into London mean rents and prices come down in London zones 2 and 3,  that £3kpa+ train fare will make 1bed flats that cost 200k in Luton and 350k in St Albans far less attractive. Unsaleable perhaps. 

[Nabby81]

On 10/16/2016 at 7:09 PM, bobbo said:

In my mind the whole thameslink line is at risk (and as such WGC / Hatfield). If all the developments that are visible when you catch the train into London mean rents and prices come down in London zones 2 and 3,  that £3kpa+ train fare will make 1bed flats that cost 200k in Luton and 350k in St Albans far less attractive. Unsaleable perhaps. 

Oh its amazing just how many developments are going up along that line , I know of in the range of 2000 flats in Luton town centre alone just high density ,high rise show boxes for obscene money 

[aerobubbles]

Having started this thread in September 2016, it's clearly been a while since I've updated it.

Sentiment has definitely changed in Hatfield. Checking the new listings 1-2 times a month I see most new listings are reductions rather than new listings.

What's more is the length of time some of them have been for sale even after being reduced.

There was no problem selling in Hatfield this time last year. Put any silly price on it and it would be snapped up within a couple of weeks.

Now similar properties seem to be listed for around £20k less. And they're still not selling.

Some BTLs there too with reductions.

Low sales volume with prices coming down.

Here's hoping it's the same with the next update.

[aerobubbles]

Checked again this morning for listings in recent days. All but one are reductions:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-65754008.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-65686496.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-65683055.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-66186590.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-64984952.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-59694439.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-64091438.html

Still overpriced crap that I wouldn't pay anything like those prices for. But at least sentiment has done a 180, presumably because the London fools have decided to stop buying any old tat that comes up for sale in Hatfield.

[aerobubbles]

Looks like Country Properties Hatfield office is struggling. Listed 6 properties today, all of which are miraculously STC already. Poor attempt at trying to make it seem they can shift properties by listing ones already sold.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-66800570.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-66800492.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-66800441.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-60221089.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-66800462.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-66800459.html

 

 

[Nabby81]

On 2017-5-16 at 11:28 AM, aerobubbles said:

Checked again this morning for listings in recent days. All but one are reductions:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-65754008.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-65686496.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-65683055.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-66186590.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-64984952.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-59694439.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-64091438.html

Still overpriced crap that I wouldn't pay anything like those prices for. But at least sentiment has done a 180, presumably because the London fools have decided to stop buying any old tat that comes up for sale in Hatfield.

Would like that to happen in Luton but still going mad here 

[aerobubbles]

On 6/28/2017 at 11:03 PM, Nabby81 said:

Would like that to happen in Luton but still going mad here 

I don't know why someone would want to buy in Luton in the first place, let alone in this market.

Further up the commuter line to Hatfield (WGC, Stevenage) are also showing an increased number of reductions and properties listed for months. Let's hope the good news continues.