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The Changes Will Make It More Difficult For Teachers And Nurses To Invest In Buy To Let, So The Rich Will Get Richer

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http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2723195-to-think-all-buy-to-let-people-are-just-in-it-to-get-someone-else-to-work-to-pay-off-their-mortgage

Do people there really represent the average numpty? I thought mumsnet was for lefties that wanted a more fair sociality? They sound like a nasty group of people that like to exploit others and would love to go back to the good old days of land barons and peasants. I'm doing OK Jack.

All these people comparing housing to food and calling others stupid. When that is an idiotic comparison.

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http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2723195-to-think-all-buy-to-let-people-are-just-in-it-to-get-someone-else-to-work-to-pay-off-their-mortgage

Do people there really represent the average numpty? I thought mumsnet was for lefties that wanted a more fair sociality? They sound like a nasty group of people that like to exploit others and would love to go back to the good old days of land barons and peasants. I'm doing OK Jack.

All these people comparing housing to food and calling others stupid. When that is an idiotic comparison.

I see youre new to Mumsnet...

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I stopped reading it.

Theres a few, sensible posters on there. Unfortunately a lot are fcking mental.

After a couple of months I could feel myself slipping into insanity.

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http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2723195-to-think-all-buy-to-let-people-are-just-in-it-to-get-someone-else-to-work-to-pay-off-their-mortgage

Do people there really represent the average numpty? I thought mumsnet was for lefties that wanted a more fair sociality? They sound like a nasty group of people that like to exploit others and would love to go back to the good old days of land barons and peasants. I'm doing OK Jack.

All these people comparing housing to food and calling others stupid. When that is an idiotic comparison.

I've yet to meet a leftie that truly wants a fair society. They want to rob future generations blind with unsustainable borrowing.

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That thread should come with a blood pressure warning. 'BTL landlords just want a return on their investment!' Yes, by denying some young family a stable home. But you know, money is money, who cares how they get it? No room for empathy in UK 2016.

Edited by Dorkins

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I only managed three pages, but very striking to see so many references to negative equity - including in the early 1990s - as being instrumental in people becoming landlords, "I couldn't sell" etc.

You could argue that in the 1990s bust the use of consent to let could cushion the banks and began this whole buy-to-let saga. In the 2008 bust the fact that the mortgages were interest-only and the fact that interest rates collapsed kept the wheels on the wagon. No matter how dire the negative equity position, the tenants could cover the rent and the rent could cover the interest-only mortgage (possibly with a bit of help from the landlord).

What will be interesting is the next crisis. The mortgages are already interest-only, rates can't move down much further. Rents are soaking up a bigger share of earnings and many private renters have no savings to tide them over.

We're way past the end of the beginning, but maybe still waiting on the beginning of the end (unless you're Busta, in which case Osborne has already set out the date for you).

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I only managed three pages, but very striking to see so many references to negative equity - including in the early 1990s - as being instrumental in people becoming landlords, "I couldn't sell" etc.

Yes, definitely. And at the time, this was a Good Thing: it kick-started a rentals market of properties fit to live in.

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Yes, definitely. And at the time, this was a Good Thing: it kick-started a rentals market of properties fit to live in.

I think that you're offering up an argument that the ends justify the means. However, as we've now seen, the interaction of the 1988 Housing Act (bringing the AST) and the banks lending to punters so that they can become landlords has probably been too much of a Good Thing, to put it mildly.

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Anyone who remembers the pre-AST rental market will say the 88 Act was a Good Thing. Prior to the Act there was barely any legal rental market. People rented but it was grey and dodgy and landlords were even more unpleasant than the current mob.

I don't think it was even the banks willingness to lend that created the nightmare we see today. In the natural course of things, reckless lending would have eventually reaped its own whirlwind.

No, the blame must lie squarely with the government - the combination of bailing out reckless banks, a low interest policy, inflated Housing Benefit, and the HTBx schemes are what has turned a minor bubble into a structural disaster.

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Anyone who remembers the pre-AST rental market will say the 88 Act was a Good Thing. Prior to the Act there was barely any legal rental market. People rented but it was grey and dodgy and landlords were even more unpleasant than the current mob.

But anyone comparing the security of tenure it affords UK renters to the rights enjoyed by renters in most other European countries would see that the 1988 Housing Act was a recipe for trouble.

Of all the incentives you could give provide in order to tempt people into investing in the private rented sector, the ability to kick out tenants at the drop of a hat is pretty much the best way to encourage speculative money to enter the market, and now £200bn+ of it has shown up and since 2001 PRS has grown from about 2m homes to about 5m.

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But anyone comparing the security of tenure it affords UK renters to the rights enjoyed by renters in most other European countries would see that the 1988 Housing Act was a recipe for trouble.

Of all the incentives you could give provide in order to tempt people into investing in the private rented sector, the ability to kick out tenants at the drop of a hat is pretty much the best way to encourage speculative money to enter the market, and now £200bn+ of it has shown up and since 2001 PRS has grown from about 2m homes to about 5m.

Personally I think there's been a confluence of influences causing the current situation, more Murphy's law than Occam's razor.

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But anyone comparing the security of tenure it affords UK renters to the rights enjoyed by renters in most other European countries would see that the 1988 Housing Act was a recipe for trouble.

No argument there.

I think the merit in the Act was that from where we were at the time, it needed something drastic to create a market.

But that was then. This is now, and things have changed. My agenda today would include:

  • Abolish Section 21 evictions
  • Consult landlords on a quid-pro-quo to ensure the court processes to evict a delinquent tenant works for them
  • Draw attention to the alternative provisions for someone letting out their own home to get it back (rarely used because no-one needs it when they can just use Section 21 instead).
  • Encourage market for landlord-to-landlord sales for when a landlord wants to sell with a tenant in residence. So professional landlords have no need of Section 21.

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No argument there.

I think the merit in the Act was that from where we were at the time, it needed something drastic to create a market.

But that was then. This is now, and things have changed. My agenda today would include:

  • Abolish Section 21 evictions
  • Consult landlords on a quid-pro-quo to ensure the court processes to evict a delinquent tenant works for them
  • Draw attention to the alternative provisions for someone letting out their own home to get it back (rarely used because no-one needs it when they can just use Section 21 instead).
  • Encourage market for landlord-to-landlord sales for when a landlord wants to sell with a tenant in residence. So professional landlords have no need of Section 21.

+1

Spot on.

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IIRC most of these issues are covered very well by countries such as France and Switzerland, so it is not as if there is not a model to copy or learn from.

The rental market and the rules we have today are worse than any so-called third world country ... it's as if they have been written by a bunch of property spivs.

The mortgage lenders' lobby group was probably quite a force in 1988 and 1996. The suggestion that a bunch of property spivs were extremely influential in the shape of the law as it stands is not a daft fantasy.

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.................... "I couldn't sell" etc..............

.

....meaning 'I did not wish to accept the true market value at the time' ....and the lender to maintain high prices and keep the ponzi flying (with quiet government backing) offered me a let to buy deal, which became known as Buy to Let 'BTL'.......now the BofE and Government have to reduce the risk off all this high flying debt called BTL.....which is not even regulated like OO mortgages.... :rolleyes:

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The mortgage lenders' lobby group was probably quite a force in 1988 and 1996. The suggestion that a bunch of property spivs were extremely influential in the shape of the law as it stands is not a daft fantasy.

Those lobbyist might find that their power is some what blunted in the current Housing Crisis©

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It's awful that the market is protecting people from making one of the biggest decisions / disasters in their life in a falling market based on false information and ill-informed sentiment...

Edited by eek

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Anyone who remembers the pre-AST rental market will say the 88 Act was a Good Thing. Prior to the Act there was barely any legal rental market. People rented but it was grey and dodgy and landlords were even more unpleasant than the current mob.

I don't think it was even the banks willingness to lend that created the nightmare we see today. In the natural course of things, reckless lending would have eventually reaped its own whirlwind.

No, the blame must lie squarely with the government - the combination of bailing out reckless banks, a low interest policy, inflated Housing Benefit, and the HTBx schemes are what has turned a minor bubble into a structural disaster.

Compounded by a democratic malfunction whereby said government was replaced by another, with a mandate to sort the mess out and having made specific reference to the "housing bubble", but decided to do the opposite because it better suited their agenda.

The second government were, in my opinion, more culpable for the present structural disaster than their predecessors who set the wheels in motion.

Edited by Bruce Banner

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