How Can Over 300.000 Poles Survive Here ?

[penbat1]

In the last year or so about 300,000 Poles have descended on the UK. How on earth do they survive with acommodation especially as many of them are only paid the UK minimum wage ? They often take jobs that us Brits don't want to do.

[All the gear..]

In the last year or so about 300,000 Poles have descended on the UK. How on earth do they survive with acommodation especially as many of them are only paid the UK minimum wage ? They often take jobs that us Brits don't want to do.

I don't know it that's strictly true.

I hear/see a number of Polish/Eastern European workers on the train/on my way to work and most of them are skilled labour, (Plasterers, Bricklyers, Carpenters.etc). I have heard that this sector has flourished in the UK due to availability and price of equivalent UK labour.

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

Well, in much of the South East low wage workers are often so poor they have to live in slumlord HMOs and hand over £350 a month. There's no hope of the council flat you may have attained in more enlightened times unles you have kids, or have some sort of special circumstance.

The Eastern European obviously doesn't want to give up that much money so they'll rent somewhere suitable for 2 people at best and maybe cram six people or more people in. As it's only for a year or two, this is all part of the adventure for the Pole who will have massively increeased buying power on return home and have a better command of English. It's a bit like student slum living - a laugh for a year or two, but you wouldn't like to live like that for long!

Of course, the native person on a low wage is not going to want to live like this full-time, although they soon may have no choice. In Hong Kong the poor often live in ratruns lined with bunk beds. Many people just a couple of steps from this now.

I don't have much problem with free movement of people as a concept, but in a world where the the playing field swoops and swerves in all directions it is often terribly unfair in reality.

Where does the UK McWorker travel to to earn four years income in a year? I know Polish workers here doing bar work with degrees and great English. Why can't a large country like Poland make a decent life for the talented people it has invested in?

[Guest magnoliawalls]

When backpackers from the UK go to Australia for a year they often live in apalling conditions. They do not care as they are having a laugh and it is for the short term.

[a j]

Where does the UK McWorker travel to to earn four years income in a year? I know Polish workers here doing bar work with degrees and great English. Why can't a large country like Poland make a decent life for the talented people it has invested in?

A number of the Polish graduates I have spoken to who are working in bars and cafes are after a bit of adventure and to improve their English. Plenty of French and Spanish doing the same thing. They expect to find better work, either by returning to their home countries or by applying for better jobs here.

When backpackers from the UK go to Australia for a year they often live in apalling conditions. They do not care as they are having a laugh and it is for the short term.

I did that - lived in a cheap place, but in a great area of Sydney. I saved half my income and went backpacking through Asia for six months on the proceeds. Its short term sacrifices for a longer term game.

I know some Kiwi accountants in London who are sharing 3 to a room. I think their average income would be about £40k plus some evening work. They enjoy life, live frugally, visit the museums at the weekend and enjoy London on the cheap. They plan to travel home the slow way and see the world on their savings, also gaining some good experience for their CV's. Its not just Poles who come here to work and save.

[right_freds_dead]

theres a lot around here in salford - but i think they are pretty cool. polite, hard working etc.

im a bit miffed that we didnt provide enough housing to go around, but what the heck. theres loads of polish girls here too, who might enjoy classic intercourse with me at some point.

[Father Fred]

Next door to me was a 2 bed 2 reception house with first floor bathroom. It was extended and renovated.

It is now full of Poles (one of whom reckons he bought it - if he did he paid well over the odds judging by nethouseprices). It has a loft conversion so is now 3 double rooms, 1 single, 2 reception (both used as bedrooms). I am fairly sure there are couples in the majority of the rooms.

The basic house size is, imho, lovely for a couple, acceptable for a couple plus kid and ok for two couples or 2 sharers.

8-10 people is too many!!!!

FF

[devslim]

A friend on mine is marrying a Polish economic migrant after meeting her whilst she was a barmaid in London a few years ago. They have been living together in a 1 bed flat for a while now, so that just leaves another 299999 to account for.

[Timster]

I can only speak for Russians (a term I'm using to describe Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians etc.) and I can confirm that unless daddy is a rich man - and they are either very rich through corruption or are poor - they tend to share a room with another person in a large house that have several rooms used for similar purposes situated in a poor neighbourhood, pay rent cash-in-hand to a dodgy landlord. They occasionally go out, but mostly always to cheap places. Vast majority of men are doing construction work, moving furniture and other labouring type jobs - they sometimes get their employment through dodgy Russian agents who have been known to scam them by not paying the amount that was agreed after the work was done. The Russian criminal fraternity usually resort to bank-related fraud - I've heard on more than one occasion how Russians recruit those with a genuine bank account looking to make a quick buck and laundering money through the account and withdrawing it from as many "holes in the wall" as possible before the account is frozen. Also, selling fake Latvian passports is a favourite of some.

Don't know much about the women other than if they are spoilt by aforementioned rich fathers, they tend to be very aloof. If on the otherhand they are not, they can get jealous and bitchy very easily if they know that another Russian girl is better off (through marriage or other means).

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

Next door to me was a 2 bed 2 reception house with first floor bathroom. It was extended and renovated.

It is now full of Poles (one of whom reckons he bought it - if he did he paid well over the odds judging by nethouseprices). It has a loft conversion so is now 3 double rooms, 1 single, 2 reception (both used as bedrooms). I am fairly sure there are couples in the majority of the rooms.

The basic house size is, imho, lovely for a couple, acceptable for a couple plus kid and ok for two couples or 2 sharers.

8-10 people is too many!!!!

FF

The UK is heading towards what they call the 'bed cage' culture in Hong Kong. A 'bed cage' makes that studio flat or HMO slumroom look like Buckingham Palace.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4541116.stm

Since he lost his job in a plastics factory six years ago, he has been living on social security payments of around HK$2,200 per month (US$282) about one third of his former wage of HK$5,500.

Mr Tung, who is not married, lives in a "bed cage" consisting of a single bed in a room with a dozen other single men.

All his possessions are in a shelf above the bed, including a suitcase, a radio, and utensils for cooking. He pays HK$700 ($90) per month in rent.

Already native people in the UK are sharing rooms in HMOs as if you're in a low wage job, the huge prices paid for a room (£350-400) are too much for someone on about £700 a month. How long before we see 'bedcages' for rent in the local Crapton Echo?

Sounds extreme for sure, but then thousands upon thousands of bedsit dwellers would have had council flats in a different era, so who's to say we've seen the worst of the brutal decline in living standards?

[Guest magnoliawalls]

The UK is heading towards what they call the 'bed cage' culture in Hong Kong. A 'bed cage' makes that studio flat or HMO slumroom look like Buckingham Palace.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4541116.stm

Already native people in the UK are sharing rooms in HMOs as if you're in a low wage job, the huge prices paid for a room (£350-400) are too much for someone on about £700 a month. How long before we see 'bedcages' for rent in the local Crapton Echo?

Sounds extreme for sure, but then thousands upon thousands of bedsit dwellers would have had council flats in a different era, so who's to say we've seen the worst of the brutal decline in living standards?

Not to worry, things are getting better all the time, we have fewer "vulnerable households" in private sector homes, and more and more of these homes are meeting the ODPM's "Standard".

http://www.sustainable-development.gov.uk/performance/62.htm

I have started a new thread at

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...=0entry279987

[right_freds_dead]

How long before we see 'bedcages' for rent in the local Crapton Echo?

dont give them ideas.

we could use those storage type places as one night homes. with your own lock. you can keep a few things in it. rent them by the day OR week. no pets or alcohol or relationships. great rates.

since they are skint, they can also offer work deposits. where one weeks mailsack production acts as your deposit..

by the time we retire this maybe the uk.

[boom_and_bust]

Hi,

It is interesting to see where it goes from here becuase my hunch is it a short term phenomena like the Spanish and Potuguese entry into the EU 18 years ago. Initially, there was a surge of folk, particularly high skilled workers, who came over for a few years but then slowly went back as the opportunities and conditions back home improved. The added attraction this time around for the new country entrants to the EU is that the UK is running a high exchange value on it's currency so when you return or send money back home, you also gain on the currency transfers. We have recently been working collaboratively with a German firm based in prague and I have to say, having spent a little time there, I could certainly see the appeal of living there, or one of the surrounding countries, if I was born there.

Although we get the impression they are grim, soviet-style concrete dormitories, is infact quite far from the truth. Poland in particular has some very beautiful countryside. And the summers are very pleasant in that part of the world, people naturally friendly and humorous and a lot of very tall, blonde attractive people, skantily clad in the summer months. The one thing communism seemed to do in the historical cities centres is to preserve the old architecture and buildings. I was surprised how inexpensive some very desirable loft appartments or town houses were there. Certainly better value than a newbuild plaster-wall hutch in many UK cities. You get real stone, high ceilings and a pretty view outside your home there for a fraction of the cost. And I can't talk for the whole region but I noticed a lot of Americain global-brand firms setting up plants in the outer suburbs of Prague and Bratislava. So, I would wager, from my own experience of the region and having talked to a few of the folk we are working with over here, it is a case of 'aufedersein pet' for many coming over to work and they are 'grin-and-bearing' it over here for a while.

Boomer

Edited January 21, 2006 by boom_and_bust

[patprimer74]

It is now full of Poles...

I am fairly sure there are couples in the majority of the rooms.

FF

My advice to you would be ...........Get a stronger pair of binoculars!!

Alternatively, employ a full-time Peeping Tom - you're not quite experienced enough, yet. But you'll get there if you carry on practicing!

p

[ajh]

I know of a polish programmer working up north renting a room from a polish landlord. The polish landlord is renting the large house from who ever and then sublets the rooms. I guess this is how alot of them are doing it.

Talk about back to the future!!

I read about stuff like this happening in the London (and other) slums in Victorian times. The book 'London' has some descriptions of what went on in the St. Giles area.

The actual owners (wealthy aristocrats or the Church) would let streets or part-streets of hovels, the tenant would let buildings, the sub-tenant would let floors and the sub-sub-tenant would let rooms. If you were a single worker (or poor family), you would negotiate for part of a room.

Very, very profitable, and some truly amazing population densities given that there were no lifts and rarely more than 3 stories.

[Justice]

In the last year or so about 300,000 Poles have descended on the UK. How on earth do they survive with acommodation especially as many of them are only paid the UK minimum wage ? They often take jobs that us Brits don't want to do.

Blair saif ther won't be a flood but thats just another lie and if you add to the number of immigrants from other places the figure is much higher.

it's propaganda to keep repeating the line "Brits don't want to do" or "Won't do" as thats not true at all as family tax credits would top the low wages up, just an excuse for Blair to keep letting more and more in.

i like the Poles and they at least are a lot better than some that have been coming for years and just taking from our DHSS. The time4 for this to stop has long gone

[The Masked Tulip]

I think you will find that many of the Poles over here now are brickies, plasters, scaffolders, sparks, etc, and are earning good money indeed - and doing a better job than many of the UK equivalents. There is also an increasing number of Polish Medics appearing in our hospitals.

It is the usual British reaction to think that the people coming here are not only working for peanuts but are somehow always more poorly skilled than the British person who is making the racist rant. It is about time millions of British people got off their backsides and started working as hard as many of the people who now flock to the UK.

On a wider front, these people are needed to drive the UK economy and to create real wealth - millions and millions of public sector workers do not create any real wealth for the UK. In fact, apart from valuable people such as Doctors, nurses, the odd good social worker, the odd good teacher, etc, many of them have no value whatsoever.

[penbat1]

The queues for the bathroom and toilet in these properties frequented by Poles don't bear thinking about unless they go in two at a time It must be especially difficult in the morning when they all need to get ready for work.

Also cramped, say 4 to a room, they would have to put up with a lot of discomfort and each other's snoring. Also they wouldnt have enough money to go out much and have fun so they must get on each other's nerves. Yet somehow these Poles have an excellent reputation for hard work.

They must also have paid for flights to the UK from Poland and other transport costs.

Edited January 22, 2006 by penbat1

[MarkG]

On a wider front, these people are needed to drive the UK economy and to create real wealth

Do you really think that the UK benefits from having its workers thrown on the dole and replaced by Poles?

Oh, hang on, you were talking about 'racist rants': so I guess you do.

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

It is the usual British reaction to think that the people coming here are not only working for peanuts but are somehow always more poorly skilled than the British person who is making the racist rant. It is about time millions of British people got off their backsides and started working as hard as many of the people who now flock to the UK.

The trouble is, these Poles have a goal - getting a pot of gold to go back home. Any discomfort is therefore ok as it's just a stepping-stone to someplace else.

If the Poles thought they would have to put up with that life forever they'd soon be as sourfaced as the average Brit with thier ever-declining quality of life. I know the feeling - when I used to do part-time McJobs as a student I was always pretty happy doing the work - it was a little extra cash to attain a few extra things, wasn't like it was forever. But, heck, when i was in a poorly paid graduate job with a long working week and unable to cover bills while living in a slum I was pretty pissed off.

If you told some 'lazy brits' that there was a country a couple of hours away, where you could earn four years' wages in a year you'd soon see them pull their finger out.

[since the beginning]

Do you really think that the UK benefits from having its workers thrown on the dole and replaced by Poles?

Oh, hang on, you were talking about 'racist rants': so I guess you do.

Agreed it's ludicrous - I am a European, love meeting all nationalities and have traveled extensively. However I also like living in a nice environment and there clearly is a limit to the amount of people that can live in th UK.

It is fine for Company Bosses to urge the Government to let in as many as possible because it doesn't effect them, they have their houses, holiday homes etc

People talk about the wealth created by immigrants but what is this 'wealth'. Most of the money ends in the hands of a few (i.e. the bosses that uncut existing labour) The rest is sent back to the country of the immigrant. Meanwhile the environment, roads, hospitals, housing have increased pressure placed upon them.

Also you get the argument that we need more people to pay the pensions of the people that are retired. Surely if that is the case then the population will have to keep growing and growing as new immigrants are then needed to pay for previous immigrants.

[New Darker Law]

In the last year or so about 300,000 Poles have descended on the UK. How on earth do they survive with acommodation especially as many of them are only paid the UK minimum wage ? They often take jobs that us Brits don't want to do.

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies in advance if this has already been stated.

I recently had the pleasure of meeting a couple of Slovakian girls. They worked in a hotel and so had accomodation provided as part of the job.

I got the impression they were here for the long term. Unfortunately I didn't get their numbers!

NDL