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Anger Grows Over Student Visa Crackdown

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I News 26/8/16

'Theresa May is facing a growing backlash from leading figures in universities, business and politics over moves to cut numbers of visas that will be issued to foreign students.

Sir Keith Burnett, Vice Chancellor of Sheffield University, said foreign students’ tuition fees covered at least one-quarter of total teaching costs. He added that many university facilities could not be afforded without this income.

“Canada and Australia are busting a gut to recruit more students because they can see the lucrative opportunity that we are spurning.

“What else can make such a contribution to the UK economy when our balance of trade is the worst in the developed world and could get worse with Brexit?”

Frank Field response

'If the Tories are serious about tackling immigration, higher education is the place to start.

I believe the following deal should be offered to Vice Chancellors.

They can have as many applicants as they wish to take into English universities, on one very important proviso. That is that they see that their graduates leave – although I do believe that those graduates should be able to work for a period following their qualifications, and of course some of those graduates will settle here.

There are on offer boutique apprenticeships in which particular skills can be acquired in a three-month period. Such training for bricklaying, plumbing and carpentry, already exists. But students have to find the money upfront to pay for the courses.

These are students who will never go to university, never make demands on student loans, and never disappear back onto the continent leaving outstanding debts. The student loans scheme needs to be adapted so that suitable applicants for jobs can both acquire the skills of, say, a bricklayer, to be financed over the three-month period, with a payback period, say, over the next two years.

Mrs May needs to announce the outline of a new points system at the Tory Party conference. Phasing it in, in the way that I have proposed, ensures that the needs of British industry are met in the short run, while offering the very clear prospect of bringing the numbers of immigrants down to well below the 100,000 level, but only as the skills and people are available for the positions that exist.'

Universities data available via HESA at link below.

https://www.hesa.ac.uk/

All in all,given the amount of purpose built student flats being built,and the likely ongoing drawdown in foreign students applying,student BTL looks doomed.

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Enlightening in two ways, thanks. First is that VCs are no longer trying to hide the fact that universities are no longer concerned with education. It is purely a business with the main focus being on churning students through as cheaply as possible. Second is that tptb honestly think that vocational education is so simple, it can be taught in three months. A proper apprenticeship used to be five years and was viewed as a much wider education than the instrumental, skills focussed and impoverished offer of today

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I believe the following deal should be offered to Vice Chancellors.

They can have as many applicants as they wish to take into English universities, on one very important proviso. That is that they see that their graduates leave

Exactly this, and why should it be otherwise? The idea that someone can pay your institution 10-15k a year for 3 years and then get residency just gives these institutions a license to print money (at our expense). No issues with people coming over to pay for a service that can only be delivered onsite for a few years. Remove any rights to residency and see how many of them still want to come - it shouldn't be too much of an issue for the genuine universities. Admitting otherwise is admitting that you know it is a rort.

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I doubt its students going to any Uni.

The dtudent visas is purely made up courses ssy english language or business stufies.Studdnts dign kn, collect bursary, college tzgpkes money, student goes znd wotks in chicken shack.

Franks comment are on the mark. Unis should be fined if students dont leave. Heavily. Equally all businesses need a rrgistered perdon wholl be fined for employing any illegal. 10k foreach month after visa expirdd. 50k for any nkn working visa.

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Exactly this, and why should it be otherwise? The idea that someone can pay your institution 10-15k a year for 3 years and then get residency just gives these institutions a license to print money (at our expense). No issues with people coming over to pay for a service that can only be delivered onsite for a few years. Remove any rights to residency and see how many of them still want to come - it shouldn't be too much of an issue for the genuine universities. Admitting otherwise is admitting that you know it is a rort.

Yes.

FE colleges are selling more a work permit rather a Education. Fine

VCs personally for anyone staying beyond their visa. Get ghe VC to put well paid balls on line.

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Yes.

FE colleges are selling more a work permit rather a Education. Fine

VCs personally for anyone staying beyond their visa. Get ghe VC to put well paid balls on line.

From personal/ professional experience, it is not FE colleges pulling the visa scam. It is largely private colleges offering English, accountancy and bull$hit (sorry, meant business ) studies. Universities love overseas students (not EU) as they can charge em whatever figure they pluck out of the air. Don't suppose they care whether they return from whence they came

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Yes.

FE colleges are selling more a work permit rather a Education. Fine

VCs personally for anyone staying beyond their visa. Get ghe VC to put well paid balls on line.

That is what I menat when I mentioned on some other thread about fining trains operators when things go wrong or indeed any body like say an NHS trust or an airline. No point in fining the body, at the end of tha day the user/customer will pay in some shape or for. Some high up decision making person within that body has to pay personally and heavily for the screw ups.

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From personal/ professional experience, it is not FE colleges pulling the visa scam. It is largely private colleges offering English, accountancy and bull$hit (sorry, meant business ) studies. Universities love overseas students (not EU) as they can charge em whatever figure they pluck out of the air. Don't suppose they care whether they return from whence they came

There was a big clampdown on these above a kebab shop 'colleges' a couple of years ago.

They usually had some faux posh english name like Beauchamp-Wooster School of Business Administration or somesuch bs

the VCs were very happy about a clampdown on their rivals at the time - LOL I guess they don't like it up 'em. Sauce for the goose and all that

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2008/jul/30/student.visas

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Frank Field has hit on the solution.

Make the Universities financially responsible for the cost of overstayers. Lets say their fees +10k. 10% of that to be a personal liability for the Chancellors.

Then lets see if they still accept all those students.

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There was a big clampdown on these above a kebab shop 'colleges' a couple of years ago.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3818605.stm

They usually had some faux posh english name like Beauchamp-Wooster School of Business Administration or somesuch bs

A lot of the smaller ones have shut up shop but there's still plenty of bulls*** colleges around (in London at least).

The ones that are left have wised up a bit and now have semi professional websites (enough to pass scrutiny from any home office desk monkey anyway) but a simple look at their premises tells you everything you need to know.

Take these two places for example:

Christ's College London: https://goo.gl/images/lOjYw5

Empire College London: https://goo.gl/images/iv0TC4

Edited by EssKay

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St Patricks College,London was one if the biggest and scamiest. Lost its self cert vusa factory.

Edited by spyguy

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Theres an advert for a UK college/Uni at my local supermarket here in Saudi FFS.

UK Educashun was allowed to grow out of control about 20 or so years ago...same time line as housing.

It will (eventually) go the same way.

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Agree with nearly all the comments on here.

Just as with student loans I think the solution to most of the issues in HE is forcing the Universities and other institutions to have some financial skin in the game. If your students overstay their visa then your educational establishment should be liable for the cost.

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A lot of the smaller ones have shut up shop but there's still plenty of bulls*** colleges around (in London at least).

The ones that are left have wised up a bit and now have semi professional websites (enough to pass scrutiny from any home office desk monkey anyway) but a simple look at their premises tells you everything you need to know.

Take these two places for example:

Christ's College London: https://goo.gl/images/lOjYw5

Empire College London: https://goo.gl/images/iv0TC4

People like to draw distinctions between a "genuine" school teaching English to foreign learners, and a "dodgy" school that attracts illegal immigrants.

The fact is that the illegal immigrant can state they are learning English and apply to any school (and even the cheaper schools only need employ a few "qualified/experienced" teachers of English to provide a similar service). Hey they may even attend the designated classes before disappearing..

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Reading the article it seems that scamming the student loan system was probably what got them fingered. Despite the whiny responses from VCs about Canada/Australia etc. I can say from personal experience (well, family member) that getting a visa as an international student in Canada is at least as hard now if not harder than for the UK.

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Theres an advert for a UK college/Uni at my local supermarket here in Saudi FFS.

UK Educashun was allowed to grow out of control about 20 or so years ago...same time line as housing.

It will (eventually) go the same way.

These seem very odd. If I wanted to go to university in London, I'd pick a London university, not a northern one

http://london.sunderland.ac.uk

http://london.northumbria.ac.uk

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Reading the article it seems that scamming the student loan system was probably what got them fingered. Despite the whiny responses from VCs about Canada/Australia etc. I can say from personal experience (well, family member) that getting a visa as an international student in Canada is at least as hard now if not harder than for the UK.

Do you need a parttime job in a chicken shack AND a kebab house?

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Do you need a parttime job in a chicken shack AND a kebab house?

Haha, but no, they're just very fussy about documentation, the institution in question and proof of funds.

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Yes I'll given them unlimited Visas if the Universities are held Criminally liable for any students who don't leave the country afterwards.

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A lot of the smaller ones have shut up shop but there's still plenty of bulls*** colleges around (in London at least).

The ones that are left have wised up a bit and now have semi professional websites (enough to pass scrutiny from any home office desk monkey anyway) but a simple look at their premises tells you everything you need to know.

Take these two places for example:

Christ's College London: https://goo.gl/images/lOjYw5

Empire College London: https://goo.gl/images/iv0TC4

Get rid of the lot of them.

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Enlightening in two ways, thanks. First is that VCs are no longer trying to hide the fact that universities are no longer concerned with education. It is purely a business with the main focus being on churning students through as cheaply as possible.

As observed by Tom Sharpe in 1979.

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From personal/ professional experience, it is not FE colleges pulling the visa scam. It is largely private colleges offering English, accountancy and bull$hit (sorry, meant business ) studies. Universities love overseas students (not EU) as they can charge em whatever figure they pluck out of the air. Don't suppose they care whether they return from whence they came

Not to mention London Metropolitan University

Today’s news: London Metropolitan University loses its license to sponsor foreign students to enter the country. It seems they’ve been found guilty of substantial abuse of the system, with the implication that they’re taking money from bogus students whose real purpose is immigration.

Whereas London has several well-respected establishments ranging from regular universities to specialist academies, London Metropolitan University isn’t one of them. I find it entirely plausible that they’re abusing the system, have ignored warnings (even thought they were calling the government’s bluff), and have failed to put their house in order. It’s also perfectly plausible that it’s a border agency cockup, or elements of both, but for the purposes of this post we’ll discount that possibility.

In view of protests about this coming from academia and elsewhere, perhaps it needs someone to say that this is exactly the right action to take. The country is far too overcrowded to take unlimited immigration, and the government has to set and police rules to limit it. But higher education is a highly successful export, and it would be wrong for government to choke it with excessive red tape. Universities should be free (indeed, encouraged) to recruit genuine students from around the world without onerous restrictions such as quotas. That means it must be up to each university to take responsibility for the student visas it sponsors. For the government to police immigration policy without heavy meddling implies it must have the ultimate sanction of withdrawing a license, and it must be prepared to use it.

With a bit of luck, this serves two purposes. It stops one offender, and fires a warning shot in the direction of anyone else who might be tempted to abuse the system.

The downside to it is collateral damage. First, the direct effect on genuine foreign students: I hope all innocent victims will be provided for and can get the degree they deserve with minimal disruption! Second, the effect on other universities, if it causes a loss of confidence amongst foreign prospective applicants. I suspect the latter may be the biggest worry for many, but it should be alleviated if appropriate arrangements can be made for all existing students. Except of course, bogus students who are flushed out might seek to spin stories of persecution, and it seems likely some of them might get the ear of the media.

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