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The Bakery 2 Months On


OrmeauRoadBuyer
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Yes I was told that they are going to replace the window. So their cost.

With replacing the kitchen to make it L shaped one of the walls has a bit sticking out from it, coloured green on the below image, it was hollow so I guess it has pipe work behind it, I wonder would access ever be needed to those pipes?

ijWcInZ.jpg

Replacing that would cost well below £10k, even with granite worktops

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Yes I was told that they are going to replace the window. So their cost.

With replacing the kitchen to make it L shaped one of the walls has a bit sticking out from it, coloured green on the below image, it was hollow so I guess it has pipe work behind it, I wonder would access ever be needed to those pipes?

ijWcInZ.jpg

Replacing that would cost well below £10k, even with granite worktops

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It has been two days since I looked around the apartments. I have not had anyone phone me to see if I am making an offer. Maybe I sounded too negative in the viewing?

I notice apartment 213 has gone sale agreed. I wonder if I could find out the price they offered for that apartment to judge how much a discount they got if any.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Question for all NI posters here; what is it about the ormeau road, or the part of the ormeau road that the bakery is on, that makes it so desirable?

Is it the fact that it's near the city centre but not quite in it? Are there some amazing restaurants/bars on the ormeau road? (of course you'd need to be the sort of person who goes to restaurants/bars all the time)

I just don't get it. I get why some people would want to live in the universiry area, or might want to live in the city centre. I don't get what's so amazing about the ormeau road.

1. Think of it like this. There's four bars within 500 yards of each other and not one of them has the hooligan element that you would expect in ANY other residential area of Belfast. You don't have to be a big pub goer to know that that speaks volumes. I wouldn't be surprised if people have been killed in some of the bars in say the Woodstock/ Cregagh, despite it having a similar housing stock to the Ormeau.

2. It's mixed. There are very few meaningfully mixed areas in this city. Would you really want to be a Catholic raising children in East Belfast when virtually no one is middle class enough to shelter their children from sectarianism. Cherryvalley is sandwiched between Tullycarnet and the Braniel after all. And if you're even a little bit bohemian or perhaps an immigrant you would prpbably be more accepted here than in say the Belmont Road or the posh part of Andytown.

3. It is not (yet) a student ghetto. It's not like there are loads of areas of decent terrace housing that aren't either run down, plagued with asbo residents or students. Granted most Northern Irish house hunters hate terraces but if they don't (or aren't from Northern Ireland) the Sunnyside side of the road is good. Also the streets on the East side of the Ormeau south of the park are absolutely massive and are arguably in the top five of Belfast's housing stock (assuming youre not ideologically opposed to properties that don't have driveways)

4. The shops are good by Belfast standards, not much better than Woodstock Cregagh but there's still a fair few of them. Virtually anywhere nominally middle class in Belfast has next to no shops and you're forced to live a car dependent lifestyle. The Lisburn Road is one of the few exceptions. Which leads me neatly onto point five.

5. It's not the Lisburn Road! So it's more affordable. Arguably less traffic too.

6. Lagan College is one of the best secondary schools in the city.

7. Ormeau park and the Lagan are accessible by foot, whereas much of BT9 & BT10 is a bit of a stretch from Shaws Bridge. Plus there is the walking distance to Queens and the like, albeit it is too far to walk all the way to the City Hall.

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1. Think of it like this. There's four bars within 500 yards of each other and not one of them has the hooligan element that you would expect in ANY other residential area of Belfast. You don't have to be a big pub goer to know that that speaks volumes. I wouldn't be surprised if people have been killed in some of the bars in say the Woodstock/ Cregagh, despite it having a similar housing stock to the Ormeau.

2. It's mixed. There are very few meaningfully mixed areas in this city. Would you really want to be a Catholic raising children in East Belfast when virtually no one is middle class enough to shelter their children from sectarianism. Cherryvalley is sandwiched between Tullycarnet and the Braniel after all. And if you're even a little bit bohemian or perhaps an immigrant you would prpbably be more accepted here than in say the Belmont Road or the posh part of Andytown.

3. It is not (yet) a student ghetto. It's not like there are loads of areas of decent terrace housing that aren't either run down, plagued with asbo residents or students. Granted most Northern Irish house hunters hate terraces but if they don't (or aren't from Northern Ireland) the Sunnyside side of the road is good. Also the streets on the East side of the Ormeau south of the park are absolutely massive and are arguably in the top five of Belfast's housing stock (assuming youre not ideologically opposed to properties that don't have driveways)

4. The shops are good by Belfast standards, not much better than Woodstock Cregagh but there's still a fair few of them. Virtually anywhere nominally middle class in Belfast has next to no shops and you're forced to live a car dependent lifestyle. The Lisburn Road is one of the few exceptions. Which leads me neatly onto point five.

5. It's not the Lisburn Road! So it's more affordable. Arguably less traffic too.

6. Lagan College is one of the best secondary schools in the city.

7. Ormeau park and the Lagan are accessible by foot, whereas much of BT9 & BT10 is a bit of a stretch from Shaws Bridge. Plus there is the walking distance to Queens and the like, albeit it is too far to walk all the way to the City Hall.

 

That post was amazing. You seem very knowledgeable about the area. I would like to ask for your advise on an area slightly off the Ormeau Road.

 

I have been looking at the town houses which are situated along the Annadale embankment. The ones which are next to Annadale Cresent, about 15 minutes walk to the Ormeau Road via turning right from Annadale Embankment onto Sunnyside Street. They are also close to the bridge that takes you over to Stranmillis College. Is this a good area?

 

In my mind I picture the Annadale Flats further on up which I would consider the roughest area of the Ormeau Road. Also Annadale Cresent does have flags up and has a Sure Start Centre.

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That post was amazing. You seem very knowledgeable about the area. I would like to ask for your advise on an area slightly off the Ormeau Road.

I have been looking at the town houses which are situated along the Annadale embankment. The ones which are next to Annadale Cresent, about 15 minutes walk to the Ormeau Road via turning right from Annadale Embankment onto Sunnyside Street. They are also close to the bridge that takes you over to Stranmillis College. Is this a good area?

In my mind I picture the Annadale Flats further on up which I would consider the roughest area of the Ormeau Road. Also Annadale Cresent does have flags up and has a Sure Start Centre.

If it's the ones that were built 10 years ago, beware. I viewed one and the damp problems were severe, I also know from people who rented flats there that there were damp issues in the flats.

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Good post. Responses below.

1. Think of it like this. There's four bars within 500 yards of each other and not one of them has the hooligan element that you would expect in ANY other residential area of Belfast. You don't have to be a big pub goer to know that that speaks volumes. I wouldn't be surprised if people have been killed in some of the bars in say the Woodstock/ Cregagh, despite it having a similar housing stock to the Ormeau.

Don't know enough about the area to know what bars you're talking about, but I can relate with certain East/West/North Belfast bars often feeling like a no-go. I'm from East Belfast and when I was living at home I'd never have went to any of the 'local' bars, for the reasons you state. I guess for families however, access to bars nearby isn't something that really matters - this would be more important for childless 20 and 30-somethings, which seems to be who likes Ormeau most.

2. It's mixed. There are very few meaningfully mixed areas in this city. Would you really want to be a Catholic raising children in East Belfast when virtually no one is middle class enough to shelter their children from sectarianism.Cherryvalley is sandwiched between Tullycarnet and the Braniel after all. And if you're even a little bit bohemian or perhaps an immigrant you would prpbably be more accepted here than in say the Belmont Road or the posh part of Andytown.

OK, good point. From my own experience of growing up in East Belfast, my primary school had a sectarian element (and I bloody hated the place), the grammar school I went to, while not one of the posh ones, would have been more accepting I think. But I get that many parents would want to send their kids to an explicitly mixed school and be in mixed areas. I don't agree about immigrants not being welcome in East Belfast, the irony is that the working class streets near my old primary school are now flooded with immigrants, frequently outnumbering locals now. I've heard that primary schools in the area are having problems teaching across so many languages.

3. It is not (yet) a student ghetto. It's not like there are loads of areas of decent terrace housing that aren't either run down, plagued with asbo residents or students. Granted most Northern Irish house hunters hate terraces but if they don't (or aren't from Northern Ireland) the Sunnyside side of the road is good. Also the streets on the East side of the Ormeau south of the park are absolutely massive and are arguably in the top five of Belfast's housing stock (assuming youre not ideologically opposed to properties that don't have driveways)

I can certainly relate to this - I wanted to live fairly central and near Queens, but anywhere in a mile radius has a real danger of turning into a student ghetto. You're right about people seeing terraced houses as a big step down from even a smaller semi, but based on the changes I've seen in the last 10 years in East Belfast - builders buying whole streets of terraced houses, HMO-ing them, and cramming ridiculously high numbers of immigrants in them, often with anti-social behavior resulting...I wouldn't buy any 'high density' housing. 15 years ago a young professional would buy a terraced house in East Belfast as a starter home, nowadays I think that would be a really bad move.

4. The shops are good by Belfast standards, not much better than Woodstock Cregagh but there's still a fair few of them. Virtually anywhere nominally middle class in Belfast has next to no shops and you're forced to live a car dependent lifestyle. The Lisburn Road is one of the few exceptions. Which leads me neatly onto point five.

Again I didn't see what the fuss was about with the shops, although I've only driven down the Ormeau road in recent years. But then again, I live in the city centre just south of the city hall, so pretty much all the best parts of Belfast, city centre, uni area, lisburn road, are on my doorstep. Perhaps I take that for granted these days.

5. It's not the Lisburn Road! So it's more affordable. Arguably less traffic too.

I'd argue the Lisburn Road is more desirable, but you're right the nice parts of Lisburn Road are well out of the budgets of most people.

6. Lagan College is one of the best secondary schools in the city.

7. Ormeau park and the Lagan are accessible by foot, whereas much of BT9 & BT10 is a bit of a stretch from Shaws Bridge. Plus there is the walking distance to Queens and the like, albeit it is too far to walk all the way to the City Hall.

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If it's the ones that were built 10 years ago, beware. I viewed one and the damp problems were severe, I also know from people who rented flats there that there were damp issues in the flats.

It is this one http://www.propertynews.com/Property/Belfast/GOCGOC7912/15-Annadale-Square/

Is that the ones that have the damp problems?

It does not seem to be shifting, I wonder why.

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It is this one http://www.propertynews.com/Property/Belfast/GOCGOC7912/15-Annadale-Square/

Is that the ones that have the damp problems?

It does not seem to be shifting, I wonder why.

No, it was this type of house, part of a massive development of flats/houses further on down:

http://www.propertynews.com/Property/Belfast/TDKEATDK0506/8-College-Heights/394125271/Page2

I'd seen that townhouse that you linked to and stayed away from it based on what I'd seen down the street - that said, perhaps it could be a different builder. It just made me very wary of the build quality of anything thrown up in that area around that time.

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Slightly offtopic: I haven't been in the Annadale flats myself but I've been in a block in North Belfast with the same design. They were excellent quality flats. Dual aspect, spacious bedrooms, great living room and okay stairwell- ie. much better than the majority of private sector blocks. Though after 60 odd years the flat roofs are letting in rain- long term the Housing Executive will add pitch roofs to them

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Slightly offtopic: I haven't been in the Annadale flats myself but I've been in a block in North Belfast with the same design. They were excellent quality flats. Dual aspect, spacious bedrooms, great living room and okay stairwell- ie. much better than the majority of private sector blocks. Though after 60 odd years the flat roofs are letting in rain- long term the Housing Executive will add pitch roofs to them

Sorry my post probably made you think I was after your opinion on the Annadale flats themselves. I was more concerned with the type tenant that would occupy them and their proximity to the town houses along the Annadale embankment.

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No, it was this type of house, part of a massive development of flats/houses further on down:

http://www.propertynews.com/Property/Belfast/TDKEATDK0506/8-College-Heights/394125271/Page2

I'd seen that townhouse that you linked to and stayed away from it based on what I'd seen down the street - that said, perhaps it could be a different builder. It just made me very wary of the build quality of anything thrown up in that area around that time.

Shame it is not possible to find out the name of the builder for those developments. Street view is usually good for that but it does not go back far enough.

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I put in an offer for the 15 Annadale Square town house and it has been accepted. The house itself is perfect for me and is the best one I have found yet.

Last night I was browsing the online crime stats to compare the area to Stranmillis and I am having second thoughts about the property because of its location. I have attached four images to this post. The first image shows the total crime rates for each area. The second image is of a map referencing each area. The third and fourth images are each area zoomed in with markers for where violent and sexual crimes have been reported. On the fourth image the house location is the pink icon. As you can see 10 violent and sexual crimes occurred as you approach the property. As I do not drive I fear I am at greater risk of being attacked as I approach the property compared to if I lived in Stranmillis.

I would like to know if you guys think I should pull out of the sale based on these crime statistics.

There are 892 separate NISOA areas in total for Northern Ireland. Here are where each of the five areas rank for crime rates compared to NI as a whole, with one being the worst area and 892 the safest area.

Ballynafeigh_3 = 87/892

Rosetta_1 = 268/892
Ballynafeigh_2 = 350/892
Stranmillis_4 = 430/892
Stranmillis_1 = 818/892

Bukz8sl.jpg

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Congrats on the offer! Did you offer the asking price?

That's fascinating about the crime stats - I didn't know you could look that stuff up.

Here's what I'd do in your situation; some weekday evening, say at about 7pm, make sure you're reasonably smartly dressed, go down there and knock on a load of doors. Explain to whoever answers that you're thinking of buying in the area but you'd like to know how they've found living there - how safe is the area, is there any noise/anti-social behaviour, and do the houses seem to be constructed well enough.

Edited by JoeDavola
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Congrats on the offer! Did you offer the asking price?

That's fascinating about the crime stats - I didn't know you could look that stuff up.

Here's what I'd do in your situation; some weekday evening, say at about 7pm, make sure you're reasonably smartly dressed, go down there and knock on a load of doors. Explain to whoever answers that you're thinking of buying in the area but you'd like to know how they've found living there - how safe is the area, is there any noise/anti-social behaviour, and do the houses seem to be constructed well enough.

That door knocking idea sounds like a good idea. I may just try it.

I offered £5k below but the estate agent got back to me a few days later saying they had two viewings of the property and that if I offered the asking price they would cancel the viewings. So that is what I did.

I guess another part of me is being slightly snobbish. i.e. someone asks me where I live and I say along the Annadale Embankment and they are like oh is that close to those Annadale flats and then I have to explain myself. Where as if I can just say I live in lower Stranmillis it sounds better.

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You might want to get them to mark it as sale agreed.

Oh and the agents have been know to post on the forum in the past. They used to masquerade as genuine posters. I believe the mods caught a few out.

Thanks for letting me know. I am to get back to her later with my final decision.

Do you have any thoughts on those crime stats I posted? Maybe I am just being super paranoid.

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I offered £5k below but the estate agent got back to me a few days later saying they had two viewings of the property and that if I offered the asking price they would cancel the viewings. So that is what I did.

That house has been on the market for a couple of months at least - and just when you make your offer there's a spike in viewings? ;)

Nevertheless, if it's perfect for you, happy days and enjoy!

Edited by JoeDavola
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That house has been on the market for a couple of months at least - and just when you make your offer there's a spike in viewings? ;)

Nevertheless, if it's perfect for you, happy days and enjoy!

If it's been on for months I'd look at my offer again.

Looks like it could be an ex rental.

This agent has a habit of taking off the market and listing as "new". I also think they over value.

Edited by 2buyornot2buy
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