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OrmeauRoadBuyer

The Bakery 2 Months On

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Two months ago six properties from The Bakery Apartment development appeared on Simon Brien. I am confused as to why six apartments would all appear at once. I also notice that Simon Brien have not even bothered to include interior photos of the apartments themselves in any of the six listings.

I know sales are down around this time of year but for none of the six to have sold in a two month time period is interesting.

If these six apartments are the developer selling up, I wonder does that mean they are more likely to hold out for the asking price.

If someone was in a cash buyer position does anyone think an offer at 10% below asking price would be taken seriously?

I had a look over the long Bakery thread from a few years ago, prices for the one bed bakery apartments were £250k and people in the thread were saying even £100k for the one bed was over priced. The one beds are priced starting at £135k, so even with a 10% cash buyer discount makes them significantly above £100k at £121,500.

I know sales are down around this time of year but for none of the six to have sold in a two month time period is interesting.

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Apartments in general don't seem to be selling quickly at all.

I'm not in the least bit surprised none of them have sold.

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Oh and I think they're overpriced even at these prices.

EDIT: and overpriced at these prices minus 10%. I reckon if you offered them the asking minus 10% they'd rip your arm off.

Edited by JoeDavola

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Oh and I think they're overpriced even at these prices.

EDIT: and overpriced at these prices minus 10%. I reckon if you offered them the asking minus 10% they'd rip your arm off.

Interesting, could easily offer £125k for the £140k one bedroom and pay no stamp duty then.

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Interesting, could easily offer £125k for the £140k one bedroom and pay no stamp duty then.

Yep.

You've still paid £125K for a one bed flat though. A type of dwelling that's only any use for a very specific sort of person; i.e. a single person with few possessions who doesn't need much space. About 3 years ago I was seeing city centre 1-beds going for under £100K but things have jumped up since then (or they're trying to)

I'm assuming you're a BTL-er?

Edited by JoeDavola

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Question for all NI posters here; what is it about the ormeau road, or the part of the ormeau road that the bakery is on, that makes it so desirable?

Is it the fact that it's near the city centre but not quite in it? Are there some amazing restaurants/bars on the ormeau road? (of course you'd need to be the sort of person who goes to restaurants/bars all the time)

I just don't get it. I get why some people would want to live in the universiry area, or might want to live in the city centre. I don't get what's so amazing about the ormeau road.

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In the Ormeau area, £135K gets you a 1 bed flat in the Bakery.

It also gets you:

- a 4 bed house:

http://www.propertynews.com/Property/Belfast/GOCGOC7862/43-Candahar-Street/391800923/

- a big 2 bed flat with 5 grand to spare:

http://www.propertynews.com/Property/Belfast/BLAD675478/Apt-2-Rossmore-Apartments/391800923/Page2

The bakery might be well built and attractive from the outside, but it's still the 'Obel of the Ormeau'. A leftover from insane times, and still overpriced.

Edited by JoeDavola

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Question for all NI posters here; what is it about the ormeau road, or the part of the ormeau road that the bakery is on, that makes it so desirable?

Is it the fact that it's near the city centre but not quite in it? Are there some amazing restaurants/bars on the ormeau road? (of course you'd need to be the sort of person who goes to restaurants/bars all the time)

I just don't get it. I get why some people would want to live in the universiry area, or might want to live in the city centre. I don't get what's so amazing about the ormeau road.

I am personally not an apartment fan. there can be large service charges and you can quickly out grow the apartment lifestyle as your life changes. To me they are something you rent in your 20's. but anyway you asked about that area. The Sunnyside district has changed dramatically over the last 20 years as professional people started buying the houses up in the late 90's for £30k to £50k.

However the other side of the road between Ormeau and Ravinhill has always been 'sought over' to use the agent speak. Very nice houses and I guess the Bakery tried to tap into both.disadvantage is you are still quite a bit from the city centre but I think it is a better build scheme than some of the others we discuss on here.

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I'm assuming you're a BTL-er?

No this is my first property purchase. I am in quite a unique situation in that I have a company set up that is earning around £150k a year. I do not know how many years the company will last so I am always planning for the worst case outcome. I am now finally in a position to be able to buy outright without having to get a mortgage.

I just don't get it. I get why some people would want to live in the universiry area, or might want to live in the city centre. I don't get what's so amazing about the ormeau road.

I had lived in student areas before (rented) and I do not like them, too much noise late at night. The city centre feels too urban, not near decent parks like botanic or the Lagan Towpath.

What I like about the Ormeau Road is you have the big Sainsbury's supermarket close by, good if you do not intend to own a car like myself. You are also spoilt for choice with green areas, like Botanic gardens and Ormeau Park close by.

You've still paid £125K for a one bed flat though. A type of dwelling that's only any use for a very specific sort of person; i.e. a single person with few possessions who doesn't need much space.

I am currently single and I do not intend to have children. So it suits me just fine. Sure I would like a two bed Bakery apartment for the spare room but it would mean I would have to get a mortgage.

In the Ormeau area, £135K gets you a 1 bed flat in the Bakery.

It also gets you:

- a 4 bed house:

http://www.propertynews.com/Property/Belfast/GOCGOC7862/43-Candahar-Street/391800923/

- a big 2 bed flat with 5 grand to spare:

http://www.propertynews.com/Property/Belfast/BLAD675478/Apt-2-Rossmore-Apartments/391800923/Page2

The bakery might be well built and attractive from the outside, but it's still the 'Obel of the Ormeau'. A leftover from insane times, and still overpriced.

Both of those properties have horrible EPC ratings though and would be expensive to run. The Bakery is very well constructed and would cost hardly anything to heat in the winter. With an apartment you also have the added security aspect and the none of the hassle of door knockers wanting to sell you crap.

I also believe as the Bakery is recently built it should be well sound insulated as is required by building regulations. So hopefully you wouldn't hear the upstairs neighbours walking around or what ever else they get up to.

Ideally I would want to purchase a 3 bedroom town house. This one being ideal https://www.propertypal.com/5-cutters-lane-belfast/318082/photo-5

The problem is the price is out of my reach right now and I want to keep as much money as possible in the company for future business ventures so I can have a more stable future. I would be looking at 2 to 3 years before I would be comfortable spending that sort of money on a property. I not think I could bare another 2 years living with parents.

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I typed a long reply, then deleted it.

Rent, move out of parents. Save more. Buy 3 bed in 2 years for cash.

The bakery 1 bed = £650 a month. Talk to your accountant and get relief on some of the rent and rates.

PS. the bakery isn't that close to Forestside but there is the bus.

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I typed a long reply, then deleted it.

Rent, move out of parents. Save more. Buy 3 bed in 2 years for cash.

The bakery 1 bed = £650 a month. Talk to your accountant and get relief on some of the rent and rates.

PS. the bakery isn't that close to Forestside but there is the bus.

Two years renting is £15,600 minus tax saved.

Buying out right would be around £700 a year service charge plus £700 rates. I could just rent the property out when I am ready to purchase a 3 bed house. Or do you guys believe renting out is not a wise idea?

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Two years renting is £15,600 minus tax saved.

Buying out right would be around £700 a year service charge plus £700 rates. I could just rent the property out when I am ready to purchase a 3 bed house. Or do you guys believe renting out is not a wise idea?

Plus the opportunity cost on the 125k. Say another 2k. (40K @ 1.5%, 85k & .75 %)

Rates are £870 on that one bed. Gym onsite, I'd expect more for service charge.

If you're looking for BTL advice, this probably isn't the best forum.

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I am currently single and I do not intend to have children. So it suits me just fine. Sure I would like a two bed Bakery apartment for the spare room but it would mean I would have to get a mortgage.

You sound like a more successful version of me ;)

Like you, I'm single, don't have a car (and don't want one), and whilst I'm on a pauper's wage compared to you I've got about £145K saved up so could buy 'certain' places for cash.

I've been renting an apartment that I love at a great rate for the last 6 years, and I much prefer living in an apartment than in a house. I'd like a bigger apartment but to get one of the really nice apartments in Belfast (there aren't many), you're talking big ££.

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Off-topic, a spectacular dump of high-end and other Belfast property added to PNews this evening, looks like a serious margin call or change of heart.

The Bakery apartments had some small single-figure reductions displayed on Zoopla, around 3% to just over £135k on a one-bed, but they've now been removed. At that point there were only a few, it does look like a developer was testing the waters.

If you hold off and watch this stand-off play out through an interim rental, your deferred consumption could bring you an extra bedroom / study at the very least. I understand the sense of urgency but late 2016 may well be viewed retrospectively as a foolhardy time to enter the market.

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Off-topic, a spectacular dump of high-end and other Belfast property added to PNews this evening, looks like a serious margin call or change of heart.

The Bakery apartments had some small single-figure reductions displayed on Zoopla, around 3% to just over £135k on a one-bed, but they've now been removed. At that point there were only a few, it does look like a developer was testing the waters.

If you hold off and watch this stand-off play out through an interim rental, your deferred consumption could bring you an extra bedroom / study at the very least. I understand the sense of urgency but late 2016 may well be viewed retrospectively as a foolhardy time to enter the market.

It's amazing to me how the prices are so high, nobody's buying, but nobody's dropping their prices either. It would appear people are happy to just stay where they are until they get the 'right price'.

For example there's 6 apartments in the Stranmillis Wharf development on at the moment, some of them have been on for months. Evidently nobody wants them at the prices they're on at.

Contrast this with a nice 2 bed new build apartment that recently went on sale in east belfast for just under £130K and sold within about 3 days.

Things would shift if the sellers weren't so greedy.

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It's amazing to me how the prices are so high, nobody's buying.

I don't think we can claim there is no one buying. In the first half of this year, according to NIRPPI there were almost 10,000 sales. this is just less than the whole 12 month period of 2010. it may not be back to a 'normal market' but it's getting alot closer.

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I don't think we can claim there is no one buying. In the first half of this year, according to NIRPPI there were almost 10,000 sales. this is just less than the whole 12 month period of 2010. it may not be back to a 'normal market' but it's getting alot closer.

Yep, have to agree. Sales are still happening.

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You sound like a more successful version of me ;)

Like you, I'm single, don't have a car (and don't want one), and whilst I'm on a pauper's wage compared to you I've got about £145K saved up so could buy 'certain' places for cash.

I've been renting an apartment that I love at a great rate for the last 6 years, and I much prefer living in an apartment than in a house. I'd like a bigger apartment but to get one of the really nice apartments in Belfast (there aren't many), you're talking big ££.

£145k saved up is not bad going, nice to see a saver. I think the really nice Apartments are close to the Lagan towpath myself but as you say big ££.

I went and viewed the two one bedroom apartments at the bakery today. All six apartments are from the management company who are now selling after having rented them out to recover losses from the crash.

The service fee is £950 per year for all apartments in the Bakery. Both apartments could use with a fresh lick of paint. The one bedroom on at £135,000 lacks any character, with no decent views.

The apartment on at £139,500 has epic views. The kitchen is tiny, barely any work surface space and not much food storage either. Such a shame that the gas boiler is in the kitchen. I wonder if you are allowed to rip out kitchens and replace them with your own?

The window in the bedroom also needs replacing, there is no shower cubicle but a shower over the bath which is fed from the bath taps, does not seem like a proper power shower. The apartment has two toilets which seems a bit weird for a one bedroom flat.

The estate agent said the prices were fixed prices and when I asked about a discount he said the management company would probably consider £1k or £2k off. So I may get laughed at if I make an offer of £125k.

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£145k saved up is not bad going, nice to see a saver. I think the really nice Apartments are close to the Lagan towpath myself but as you say big ££.

I went and viewed the two one bedroom apartments at the bakery today. All six apartments are from the management company who are now selling after having rented them out to recover losses from the crash.

The service fee is £950 per year for all apartments in the Bakery. Both apartments could use with a fresh lick of paint. The one bedroom on at £135,000 lacks any character, with no decent views.

The apartment on at £139,500 has epic views. The kitchen is tiny, barely any work surface space and not much food storage either. Such a shame that the gas boiler is in the kitchen. I wonder if you are allowed to rip out kitchens and replace them with your own?

The window in the bedroom also needs replacing, there is no shower cubicle but a shower over the bath which is fed from the bath taps, does not seem like a proper power shower. The apartment has two toilets which seems a bit weird for a one bedroom flat.

The estate agent said the prices were fixed prices and when I asked about a discount he said the management company would probably consider £1k or £2k off. So I may get laughed at if I make an offer of £125k.

Interesting.

I'm assuming the £139K apartment is a one-bed? Seems too much for a one bed with a barely usable kitchen, even with the views.

On the plus side, the management fee is quite low, but that's no guarantee that the management company won't randomly sting you for more money throughout the year.

From what you say with the lack of space, the wear and tear on what is quite a new apartment, it sounds like another case of apartments that were built with investors in mind rather than places that will be practical for people to actually live in.

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I may get laughed at if I make an offer of £125k.

'Fixed price' means they know they'll be lucky to get what they're asking.

If they thought they were worth any more than that, they'd invite a bidding war.

I'd take 'fixed price' as an indication to offer less. At least £10K less.

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£1850 on rates and management fees for a 1 bed, 550 square foot, isn't cheap.

Yes you can replace the kitchen.

The window is probably a management company job. Could be under warrantee still.

I'd also be looking at a power shower if possible.

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I'm assuming the £139K apartment is a one-bed? Seems too much for a one bed with a barely usable kitchen, even with the views.

Yes the £139k apartment is a one bed. The kitchen kickboard needs replacing, the washing machine cupboard does not line up with the rest of the units, some of the plugs in the bedroom are yucky cheap plastic white ones and not the flush metal ones in the rest of the apartment. There are 4 holes in one of the walls with 2cm gaps between them. In the bedroom there is a small crack running along the entire wall where the brick work and plaster board meet up. Window needs replacing, it was left laying open. It has quite a lot of wear and tear something I was not expecting.

The kitchen work area is so small, though there is scope to convert it to a L shaped kitchen, though your probably talking £10k to replace the kitchen.

I was wondering about the fixed price as he said to me the max you would pay would be £140k lol. So no expectations of a bidding war as you say. Nothing to stop anyone putting in an offer £10k below the asking price and then just waiting for someone else to offer a higher bid.

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Yes the £139k apartment is a one bed. The kitchen kickboard needs replacing, the washing machine cupboard does not line up with the rest of the units, some of the plugs in the bedroom are yucky cheap plastic white ones and not the flush metal ones in the rest of the apartment. There are 4 holes in one of the walls with 2cm gaps between them. In the bedroom there is a small crack running along the entire wall where the brick work and plaster board meet up. Window needs replacing, it was left laying open. It has quite a lot of wear and tear something I was not expecting.

The kitchen work area is so small, though there is scope to convert it to a L shaped kitchen, though your probably talking £10k to replace the kitchen.

I was wondering about the fixed price as he said to me the max you would pay would be £140k lol. So no expectations of a bidding war as you say. Nothing to stop anyone putting in an offer £10k below the asking price and then just waiting for someone else to offer a higher bid.

Sounds to me like they've a bloody cheek asking £140K for it with all the issues you've mentioned.

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Interesting.

I'm assuming the £139K apartment is a one-bed? Seems too much for a one bed with a barely usable kitchen, even with the views.

On the plus side, the management fee is quite low, but that's no guarantee that the management company won't randomly sting you for more money throughout the year.

From what you say with the lack of space, the wear and tear on what is quite a new apartment, it sounds like another case of apartments that were built with investors in mind rather than places that will be practical for people to actually live in.

£1850 on rates and management fees for a 1 bed, 550 square foot, isn't cheap.

Yes you can replace the kitchen.

The window is probably a management company job. Could be under warrantee still.

I'd also be looking at a power shower if possible.

Yes I was told that they are going to replace the window. So their cost.

With replacing the kitchen to make it L shaped one of the walls has a bit sticking out from it, coloured green on the below image, it was hollow so I guess it has pipe work behind it, I wonder would access ever be needed to those pipes?

ijWcInZ.jpg

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