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SarahBell

An Eruv For Hale

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-36985433

The Hale Eruv Project Trust has lodged a planning application for the 12-mile perimeter around the Trafford village.
An eruv is an area enclosed by a symbolic and physical boundary that allows orthodox religious Jews to carry or push certain items outside of their homes on the Sabbath.
However, a multi-faith group has claimed it will create community "tension" and benefit only 100 people.

Was on news last night. Said over 500 objections to it.

Though shalt not push on the Sabbath!

Under Jewish law (Torah), it is forbidden to carry everyday items such as reading glasses or house keys or push a wheelchair or pushchair between sundown on Friday and sundown on Saturday.

These are allowed within an eruv although carrying money or a mobile phone or going to shops, the cinema or taking part in sport are still prohibited.

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It is mainly symbolic. So what's the problem?

On the news someone said about it being done to attract more Jewish people to the area.

It's not quite building a mosque but maybe has quite a lot of symbolism attached to it.

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2 mile radius for 100 people seems a bit expansive.

But why not?

I'm all for communities doing their own thing; church bells ringing, muezzins calling, synagogues doing whatever synagogues do, etc.

Much better than Clone UK.

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2 mile radius for 100 people seems a bit expansive.

I'm all for communities doing their own thing; church bells ringing, muezzins calling, synagogues doing whatever synagogues do, etc.

When is a community a community - Which bit of the 10,000 people in that 2 mile radius make up the community?

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It'a load of ******** and it has no place in this country, says this ex-Jew. :blink:

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I heard of one of these in London, it seems a really odd concept.

If you are a devout Jew then you need to follow all the rules on a Saturday. Fair enough.

If however you are in an eruv then you don't have to.

Why if you're devout would you not actively want to follow all the rules anyway? It doesn't add up at all IMHO.

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I heard of one of these in London, it seems a really odd concept.

If you are a devout Jew then you need to follow all the rules on a Saturday. Fair enough.

If however you are in an eruv then you don't have to.

Why if you're devout would you not actively want to follow all the rules anyway? It doesn't add up at all IMHO.

It doesn't add up and it's wrong!

Believe you want to, but don't ask for exceptions!

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When is a community a community - Which bit of the 10,000 people in that 2 mile radius make up the community?

Who cares? Does their religious washing line cause anyone else any bother?

There's a small case to be made that it'll be ugly and damage the street scene but I'd have to be convinced it was qualitatively different to the poles and wires already there.

I'm assuming, of course that they'll be paying for everything and not expecting Ye Eternally Generous Taxpayer to pay for poles, wiring, maintenance, pavement space rent etc.

If, OTOH, they ain't paying their way then they can poke off. IMO.

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Who cares? Does their religious washing line cause anyone else any bother?

There's a small case to be made that it'll be ugly and damage the street scene but I'd have to be convinced it was qualitatively different to the poles and wires already there.

I'm assuming, of course that they'll be paying for everything and not expecting Ye Eternally Generous Taxpayer to pay for poles, wiring, maintenance, pavement space rent etc.

If, OTOH, they ain't paying their way then they can poke off. IMO.

They are making themselves conspicuous Mr JT Bloke. Not a good thing!

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It doesn't add up and it's wrong!

Believe you want to, but don't ask for exceptions!

Not just me then!

I exaggerate for the sake of effect but it's like saying you must follow the ten commandments but if you give the Isle of Wight some special religious status then only eight of them apply there.

Why, if you are a religious believer who believes that the ten commandments are the word of the Lord, would you do that? Why would you even want to do that?

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I heard of one of these in London, it seems a really odd concept.

If you are a devout Jew then you need to follow all the rules on a Saturday. Fair enough.

If however you are in an eruv then you don't have to.

Why if you're devout would you not actively want to follow all the rules anyway? It doesn't add up at all IMHO.

Yep.

It is a completely bizarre concept particularly as Jews who find strict orthodox rules burdensome can always join Reformed or Liberal synagogues.

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They are making themselves conspicuous Mr JT Bloke. Not a good thing!

Conspicuousness isn't my cup of tea but I don't see why I should dictate my world to other people[1].

Besides, church towers and bells are hardly inconspicuous. Or, on the secular side, neither are the shopping mall temples to material consumerism.

[1] It'd be a jolly nice world, though. Well, for me it would be. All my slaves might not agree.

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No idea if this is part of it, but there's a whole anti-semitism industry out there. That is, an agenda to find as much anti-semitism as possible, including by generating it if necessary.

A pointless gesture could easily fit that Agenda. People who oppose it are denying jews their cultural customs. Oppressing them. Threatening them. Obviously hate them. And if the application (whatever it is) gets refused, that's institutional antisemitism.

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I like chuchtowers and bells, otherwise I wouldn't live here. They only go off on Sunday except for practising, which is always followed by the pub. Religion is thirsty work!

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No idea if this is part of it, but there's a whole anti-semitism industry out there. That is, an agenda to find as much anti-semitism as possible, including by generating it if necessary.

A pointless gesture could easily fit that Agenda. People who oppose it are denying jews their cultural customs. Oppressing them. Threatening them. Obviously hate them. And if the application (whatever it is) gets refused, that's institutional antisemitism.

I oppose this lunacy and I am a bit Jewish!

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Not just me then!

I exaggerate for the sake of effect but it's like saying you must follow the ten commandments but if you give the Isle of Wight some special religious status then only eight of them apply there.

Why, if you are a religious believer who believes that the ten commandments are the word of the Lord, would you do that? Why would you even want to do that?

Careful - I think there is one commandment that doesn't apply on the Isle of Wight already (or so someone recently alluded to)

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Careful - I think there is one commandment that doesn't apply on the Isle of Wight already (or so someone recently alluded to)

Oh, and that's where Bossybabe lives.

I will stop using that as an example.

Hopefully nobody on here lives in the Isle of Man so I can use that instead.

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Which bit?

A bit all over but I don't wear a funny hat! :blink:

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Isn't this a bit like a group of monkeys trying to get Hartlepool made a noose-free zone..?

XYY

Well I can't see this happening in the middle of the Nurenberg horse trials

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Isn't this a bit like a group of monkeys trying to get Hartlepool made a noose-free zone..?

XYY

No.

But thank you for joining in Mr XYY, it all adds to the excitement ;)

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I like chuchtowers and bells, otherwise I wouldn't live here. They only go off on Sunday except for practising, which is always followed by the pub. Religion is thirsty work!

Pull the other one!

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