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Moved practically all of my cash out of ISAs in the last year. Pointless leaving it there where it was both difficult to get at, and earning basically nothing/nor contributing to the social good. I'll live with potentially paying tax if IFISAs prove bothersome. Now that some of that cash is in p2p, some in the last flurry of community renewable energy projects before the feed-in tariff was cut. I need to investigate other options once those start paying back to further diversify. Probably ethical dividend payers if such a thing exists. I'll consider an ISA wrapper if and when it helps.

Edited by StainlessSteelCat
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Moved practically all of my cash out of ISAs in the last year. Pointless leaving it there where it was both difficult to get at, and earning basically nothing/nor contributing to the social good. Now that some of that cash is in p2p, some in the last flurry of community renewable energy projects before the feed-in tariff was cut. I need to investigate other options once those start paying back to further diversify. Probably ethical dividend payers if such a thing exists. I'll consider an ISA wrapper if and when it helps.

Did you move all the cash out or did you transfer some to S&S ISA? This is what I was referring to - if you move it out you've lost the allowance forever.

Who you using P2P wise? I've been with RateSetter since May-14 with annualised return to date of 5.1%.

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Does anyone on HPC actually use S&S ISA's? If yes, would genuinely love to know why as I'm probably missing something given their popularity.

Is that really what you meant to ask?

I still have both kinds of ISA. Most importantly, I have this year's ISA money in a flexible ISA. Just in case I should buy a house (drawing money out), then be in a position to put money back in before the end of the tax year.

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Did you move all the cash out or did you transfer some to S&S ISA? This is what I was referring to - if you move it out you've lost the allowance forever.

Who you using P2P wise? I've been with RateSetter since May-14 with annualised return to date of 5.1%.

Some is still there awaiting a move to a S&S or IFISA - when or if I find a suitable one.

P2P wise - I've got enough in RateSetter to earn the bonus, and quite a bit more in Abundance. I appreciate I've lost the allowance, but I'm not actively adding to savings in any form except pension right now so I'll happily(!) pay some tax on much better rates of return and drip feed it back into relevant IFISA or other ISA wrappers over the next few years. My main rationale was that I wanted to help fund a few local community energy schemes regardless of the tax hit. Obviously those kind of investments don't wait for optimum times to invest. Similarly, it looks Abundance's renewable energy debentures are starting to dry up too.

I'll have to look more closely at your strategy - but I suspect I fall into the naive/ignorant category of your co-worker who is the subject of your latest blog. I'm playing around with far smaller sums than you are though - and not planning RE just yet.

Edited by StainlessSteelCat
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Is that really what you meant to ask?

I still have both kinds of ISA. Most importantly, I have this year's ISA money in a flexible ISA. Just in case I should buy a house (drawing money out), then be in a position to put money back in before the end of the tax year.

Bit slow today, apologies and duly corrected.

What is the cash ISA intended to be for?

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Some is still there awaiting a move to a S&S or IFISA - when or if I find a suitable one.

P2P wise - I've got enough in RateSetter to earn the bonus, and quite a bit more in Abundance. I appreciate I've lost the allowance, but I'm not actively adding to savings in any form except pension right now so I'll happily(!) pay some tax on much better rates of return and drip feed it back into relevant IFISA wrappers over the next few years. My main rationale was that I wanted to help fund a few local community energy schemes regardless of the tax hit. Obviously those kind of investments don't wait for optimum times to invest.

I'll have to look more closely at your strategy - but I suspect I fall into the naive/ignorant category of your co-worker who is the subject of your latest blog. I'm playing around with far smaller sums than you are though.

If it helps S&S ISA wise I use TD Direct. Provided you only buy shares directly or ETF's and have over £5,100 invested there are no wrapper charges. Not the flashest of platforms but I'm not prepared to pay for flashness so am pretty happy. Have been with them since 2008 so view is over a reasonable period also.

Abundance looks like an interesting concept at first glance. How long have you been with them and what sort of return are you getting? Will do some more research there also. Thanks.

Important to consider small is relative and 8.5 years ago I was in the small camp also thus my HPC name as I registered here at about the same time I enacted Plan B.

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If it helps S&S ISA wise I use TD Direct. Provided you only buy shares directly or ETF's and have over £5,100 invested there are no wrapper charges. Not the flashest of platforms but I'm not prepared to pay for flashness so am pretty happy. Have been with them since 2008 so view is over a reasonable period also.

Abundance looks like an interesting concept at first glance. How long have you been with them and what sort of return are you getting? Will do some more research there also. Thanks.

Important to consider small is relative and 8.5 years ago I was in the small camp also thus my HPC name as I registered here at about the same time I enacted Plan B.

I started with Abundance in 2014. So far 4.4% each year on the original sum invested, but bear in mind that about 5% of my original investment was also returned each year allowing me to reinvest it in other projects. Basically, you get the same amount of interest cash wise each year, while having progressively less invested so the effective interest rate increases over time (this year I'll earn just over 5% on the remaining capital from that first investment, next year it'll be around 5.5%). Interest payout and capital return happens twice a year - so far they have not missed a payment.

You can also trade debentures on their own bulletin board fee-free - and bafflingly people seem to be willing to pay over the odds for them. But the secondary market is a very small one and rather stagnant since Brexit/summer hols started.

I think the golden era of Abundance might be over now though. The latest blog suggest rather lower returns might be more likely in the future:

https://blog.abundanceinvestment.com/2016/07/there-is-still-time-to-invest-in-solar-while-the-sun-is-shining/

I will definitely look up TD Direct.

Edited by StainlessSteelCat
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Never had a cash ISA as I don't want to waste the Allowance. Instead I invest all my ISA allowance into Equities and ETF's.

I think of ISA's as a use it or lose once in a lifetime thing. Therefore during the accrual phase of ones life you don't want to be adding and subtracting from it but only building it. Which sort of goes against cash which is more a short term thing (eg house deposit/purchase, emergency fund) as inflation eats it alive so not suitable long periods of wealth storage or for wealth accrual.

I actually take it to an extreme. £200k in cash for a home purchase with none in ISA. £165k in ISA's all of it Equities or ETF's.

Does anyone on HPC actually use Cash ISA's? If yes, would genuinely love to know why as I'm probably missing something given their popularity.

Edit: Pose the correct question.

We use our full ISA allowances each year and it all goes into cash ISAs.

We are retired with (hopefully) sufficient cash and pensions to see us out and even one percent tax free is better than risking losing it in S&S ISAs. The more we build up our ISA allowances, the more we will benefit when rates rise to more normal levels.

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We use our full ISA allowances each year and it all goes into cash ISAs.

We are retired with (hopefully) sufficient cash and pensions to see us out and even one percent tax free is better than risking losing it in S&S ISAs. The more we build up our ISA allowances, the more we will benefit when rates rise to more normal levels.

That sounds fair enough although it must mean you have significant capital if you can cope with a negative real return for an extended period. I could have 40 or more years ahead of me so that plan wouldn't work for me.

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We use our full ISA allowances each year and it all goes into cash ISAs.

We are retired with (hopefully) sufficient cash and pensions to see us out and even one percent tax free is better than risking losing it in S&S ISAs. The more we build up our ISA allowances, the more we will benefit when rates rise to more normal levels.

As I was posting, I was thinking that maybe there is the long-game left in an ISA - in that if you keep building the pot and wait for interest rates to go back to 'normal' then could end up doing well; so is interesting to see someone else on the same lines.

Is a proper long game though! Is there anyone left who sees interest rates rising before 2019? (but in reality, I guess no one really knows that one - economic shocks and all)

Am a bit too impatient, could see mine disappearing into investing (which is clearly what the government and PTB want I guess) or into the dreaded house purchase if that time ever comes!

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Does anyone on HPC actually use Cash ISA's? If yes, would genuinely love to know why as I'm probably missing something given their popularity.

I'm with you when it comes to ISA strategy; fill to the max every year and holding equities for the long term.

But I can see why one might use a cash ISA. If ( a ) you're going to buy a house over the next few years and understandably don't want the volatility of equities and ( b ) you don't have enough cash every year to to do both a full ISA and other savings.

What's to lose? OK, if you buy the house, you'll have emptied your ISAs - but you'd have empty ISAs if you'd kept the money outside anyway. OTOH, if your plans change and you don't buy the house, of if Granny leaves you £200k for a house, then you've got full ISAs rather than a bucketful of unwrapped cash.

Or am *I* missing something?

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I'm with you when it comes to ISA strategy; fill to the max every year and holding equities for the long term.

But I can see why one might use a cash ISA. If ( a ) you're going to buy a house over the next few years and understandably don't want the volatility of equities and ( b ) you don't have enough cash every year to to do both a full ISA and other savings.

What's to lose? OK, if you buy the house, you'll have emptied your ISAs - but you'd have empty ISAs if you'd kept the money outside anyway. OTOH, if your plans change and you don't buy the house, of if Granny leaves you £200k for a house, then you've got full ISAs rather than a bucketful of unwrapped cash.

Or am *I* missing something?

I think you're where I am.

You'd only do ( a ) with any leftover allowance where you couldn't fill the S&S ISA and save for the deposit/purchase. Agree with you on ( b ) but I'd be moving heaven and earth to maximise full S&S ISA as it is such a powerful and all too rare tax avoidance scheme.

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As I was posting, I was thinking that maybe there is the long-game left in an ISA - in that if you keep building the pot and wait for interest rates to go back to 'normal' then could end up doing well; so is interesting to see someone else on the same lines.

Is a proper long game though! Is there anyone left who sees interest rates rising before 2019? (but in reality, I guess no one really knows that one - economic shocks and all)

Am a bit too impatient, could see mine disappearing into investing (which is clearly what the government and PTB want I guess) or into the dreaded house purchase if that time ever comes!

Yes, they certainly want our money in S&S or housing.

The more they try to shake us out of the tree the tighter I lash us to it.

Patience is a virtue. Mind you, with pensions that we can live off we don't need to touch our capital and have the luxury of time. I've been retired for coming up nine years so on average we've done okay with interest rates and are still averaging over 2% due to fixed rate accounts and ISAs. Every year we move the maximum from regular accounts to cash ISAs. Next year I think it's £20K each.

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Yes, they certainly want our money in S&S or housing.

The more they try to shake us out of the tree the tighter I lash us to it.

Patience is a virtue. Mind you, with pensions that we can live off we don't need to touch our capital and have the luxury of time. I've been retired for coming up nine years so on average we've done okay with interest rates and are still averaging over 2% due to fixed rate accounts and ISAs. Every year we move the maximum from regular accounts to cash ISAs. Next year I think it's £20K each.

Bruce, is that the State Pension or Private Pension? I'm 43 and am investing and planning based on an assumption that I won't get any State Pension but that I will get my Private (DC so all my contributions in assets of my choice) Pension. By assuming no State Pension it made my investment approach quite different but at my age and given the deficits/debt/governments continually pension tinkering it seems a reasonable assumption to me.

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Bruce, is that the State Pension or Private Pension? I'm 43 and am investing and planning based on an assumption that I won't get any State Pension but that I will get my Private (DC so all my contributions in assets of my choice) Pension. By assuming no State Pension it made my investment approach quite different but at my age and given the deficits/debt/governments continually pension tinkering it seems a reasonable assumption to me.

Up until very recently it was private only for me and State for my wife, but now I get my State pension too. Just squeaked in on the old rules so my SERPS and second pensions are an entitlement. Like you, I did not bank on getting any State pension, but in the event it has gone some way to compensating me for the recent loss of interest, so swings and roundabouts.

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Up until very recently it was private only for me and State for my wife, but now I get my State pension too. Just squeaked in on the old rules so my SERPS and second pensions are an entitlement. Like you, I did not bank on getting any State pension, but in the event it has gone some way to compensating me for the recent loss of interest, so swings and roundabouts.

2 x State Pension (what's that circa £320 per week with some SERPs etc) plus a Private Pension (say £3k per year) = £20k which sounds like a good life if you have a paid for home.

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2 x State Pension (what's that circa £320 per week with some SERPs etc) plus a Private Pension (say £3k per year) = £20k which sounds like a good life if you have a paid for home.

Private pension is a bit more than that, but we don't own a house (we are renting), although we do have the cash in the bank to buy one when value returns to the market.

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Private pension is a bit more than that, but we don't own a house (we are renting), although we do have the cash in the bank to buy one when value returns to the market.

You're in about the place where I'm pulling the early retirement trigger except I've targeted amount assuming no State Pension. I think I need EUR23k (which is about £20k assuming worst annual exchange rate since the Euro's inception) plus EUR270k for a home.

If you had your time again would you want more retirement 'salary'?

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You're in about the place where I'm pulling the early retirement trigger except I've targeted amount assuming no State Pension. I think I need EUR23k (which is about £20k assuming worst annual exchange rate since the Euro's inception) plus EUR270k for a home.

If you had your time again would you want more retirement 'salary'?

If I'd known how low interest rates would go, then yes, with hindsight, I would have traded some capital for pension income.

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MoneySavingExpert: Santander 123 slashes interest in current account blow for millions

"Santander is taking a hammer to its flagship 123 current account by chopping the headline interest rate in half later this year, MoneySavingExpert.com can reveal.

"In a major blow for millions of customers, the market-leading 3% interest for those with savings of between £3,000 and 20,000 is being slashed to just 1.5% from 1 November for new and existing customers."

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MoneySavingExpert: Santander 123 slashes interest in current account blow for millions

"Santander is taking a hammer to its flagship 123 current account by chopping the headline interest rate in half later this year, MoneySavingExpert.com can reveal.

"In a major blow for millions of customers, the market-leading 3% interest for those with savings of between £3,000 and 20,000 is being slashed to just 1.5% from 1 November for new and existing customers."

Thank God for that, I never got around to opening one because of all the hassle with DDs etc, now I don't feel that I'm missing out any more :lol:.

Good to see that Hammond is keeping up the good work :rolleyes:.

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