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Peter Hitches On Housing (Nov 2015 - Question Time)

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Yes - always good value.

But obviously unlike the other panellists he is mistaken in assuming that adding millions to the population of the UK and particularly London has had a large impact on the demand for housing.

Never too many people - always too few houses built. Shame no government ever addresses the latter - of what ever party.

Edited by MARTINX9

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Because the immigration argument is a fallacy. Germany and France have much more affordable housing yet take in many more migrants as a percentage of population size.

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Because the immigration argument is a fallacy. Germany and France have much more affordable housing yet take in many more migrants as a percentage of population size.

But do most of them go within a 100 square mile which is pretty much where the UK bubble is, and are they afforded vast sums in Housing Benefit?

Edited by Crumbless

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But do most of them go within a 100 square mile are which is pretty much where the UK bubble is, and are they afforded vast sums in Housing Benefit?

I don't know the figures but I'd guess they go where the work is.

Most of the people who have come here in the past few years work in shitty jobs with no hope of owning at current prices anyway. I assume.

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I am johnny and I think immigration is out of control but to blame hpi on it isn't completely accurate clearly.

Immigration plays a role, but it is not the principle cause. The graph from the HPC front page says it all, the worst period for HPI was before the EU expansion in 2004, for a while after that HPI pretty much stopped (until base rates were cut).

homepage.png

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Yes - always good value.

But obviously unlike the other panellists he is mistaken in assuming that adding millions to the population of the UK and particularly London has had a large impact on the demand for housing.

Never too many people - always too few houses built. Shame no government ever addresses the latter - of what ever party.

It has an impact but not necessarily in the way people assume. HPI is linked first and foremost to bank lending. Most immigrants end up either without jobs (refugees aren't allowed to work), or in low paid work. Its far more likely that irresponsible bank lending, mafia money, money laundering, and BTL is having a larger influence on HPI. That said - take out 1 million immigrants and yes it would reduce demand at least in the rented sector.

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In the absence of enough new homes being built in the right areas then concentrations of new immigrants in those areas adds to excess demand/overcrowding in those areas - but doesn't necessarily lead to HPI which is ultimately mainly a function of lending/credit - and in some cases rich "cash" buyers.

Edited by billybong

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I think most if not all people on here blame it on Blair, Brown, Cameron, Gidiot and all the faceless bankers they let run riot and destroy what was in comparison to now a fair and decent society.

But to suggest immigration on the epic proportions we have seen has had no impact is also wrong.

Edited by Crumbless

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Immigration isn't evenly distributed throughout the UK - it's why there's a NIMBY attitude towards uncontrolled immigration. You get to have a really cool and progressive opinion on immigration when it doesn't affect you. You can feel superior to the "racist knuckle-draggers" who actually live in the hotspots and see their local communities radically altered in the space of a few short years. These are the areas that BTLs have taken over and you can find house prices and rents high here. You'll also find school places in short supply, the waiting time for your local GP measured in weeks not days, and your local A+E redirecting patients to other hospitals from time to time. Inevitably, your council will be flat broke. Immigration definitely has an impact on housing because it's something people need from day one (and well, there's not enough bed-sheds to go around).. Look at the other thread with the woman sharing a flat with seven other people - I bet that's a high immigration area.

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Immigration isn't evenly distributed throughout the UK - it's why there's a NIMBY attitude towards uncontrolled immigration. You get to have a really cool and progressive opinion on immigration when it doesn't affect you. You can feel superior to the "racist knuckle-draggers" who actually live in the hotspots and see their local communities radically altered in the space of a few short years. These are the areas that BTLs have taken over and you can find house prices and rents high here. You'll also find school places in short supply, the waiting time for your local GP measured in weeks not days, and your local A+E redirecting patients to other hospitals from time to time. Inevitably, your council will be flat broke. Immigration definitely has an impact on housing because it's something people need from day one (and well, there's not enough bed-sheds to go around).. Look at the other thread with the woman sharing a flat with seven other people - I bet that's a high immigration area.

In a few areas like Boston, Lincs I have no doubt it's true, immigration has caused local problems and the leave vote reflected that. However, of the top 10 vote leave areas that is the ONLY one where non-UK born population (15.2%) was higher than the national average of 13.3%. In what appears to be a direct contradiction of what you wrote the area with the lowest leave vote (21%) lambeth 38% of the population are non UK-born.

http://theconversation.com/hard-evidence-how-areas-with-low-immigration-voted-mainly-for-brexit-62138

Anyway my bags are nearly packed and I'm very much looking forward to becoming an immigrant, oh sorry perhaps I should use the PC term "expat" here. Well until I get my Irish citizenship and passport that is.

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In a few areas like Boston, Lincs I have no doubt it's true, immigration has caused local problems and the leave vote reflected that. However, of the top 10 vote leave areas that is the ONLY one where non-UK born population (15.2%) was higher than the national average of 13.3%. In what appears to be a direct contradiction of what you wrote the area with the lowest leave vote (21%) lambeth 38% of the population are non UK-born.

http://theconversation.com/hard-evidence-how-areas-with-low-immigration-voted-mainly-for-brexit-62138

Anyway my bags are nearly packed and I'm very much looking forward to becoming an immigrant, oh sorry perhaps I should use the PC term "expat" here. Well until I get my Irish citizenship and passport that is.

Well it's honestly hard to tell when it comes to the EU referendum since England all but voted to leave apart from London and a few other areas (see the map below, red is leave, blue remain). I've posted a list of the towns/cities/areas that voted out - many many on the list definitely have high EU populations.

eYZp5cp.jpg

Voted leave:

Adur, Allerdale, Amber Valley, Anglesey, Arun, Ashfield, Ashford, Aylesbury Vale, Babergh, Barking & Dagenham, Barnsley, Barrow-in-Furness, Basildon, Bassetlaw, Bedford, Bexley, Birmingham, Blaby, Blackburn with Darwen, Blackpool, Blaenau Gwent, Bolsover, Bolton, Boston, Bournemouth, Bracknell Forest, Bradford, Braintree,Breckland, Brentwood, Bridgend, Broadland, Bromsgrove, Broxbourne, Broxtowe, Burnley, Bury, Caerphilly, Calderdale, Cannock Chase, Canterbury, Carlisle, Carmarthenshire, Castle Point, Central Bedfordshire, Charnwood, Chelmsford, Cherwell, Cheshire East, Cheshire West & Chester, Chesterfield, Chichester, Chorley, Christchurch, Colchester, Conwy, Copeland, Corby, Coventry, Craven, Crawley, Dacorum, Darlington, Dartford, Daventry, Denbighshire, Derby, Derbyshire Dales, Doncaster, Dover, Dudley, Durham, East Cambridgeshire, East Devon, East Dorset, East Hertfordshire, East Lindsey, East Northamptonshire, East Riding of Yorkshire, East Staffordshire, Eastbourne, Eastleigh, Eden, Epping Forest, Erewash, Fareham, Fenland, Flintshire, Forest Heath, Forest of Dean, Fylde, Gateshead, Gedling, Gloucester, Gosport, Gravesham, Great Yarmouth, Halton, Hambleton, Harborough, Harlow, Hartlepool, Hastings, Havant, Havering, Herefordshire, Hertsmere, High Peak, Hillingdon, Hinckley & Bosworth, Huntingdonshire, Hyndburn, Ipswich Isle of Wight, Kettering, King's Lynn & West Norfolk, Kingston-upon-Hull, Kirklees, Knowsley, Lancaster, Lichfield, Lincoln, Luton, Maidstone, Maldon, Malvern Hills, Mansfield, Medway, Melton, Merthyr Tydfil, Mid Devon, Mid Suffolk, Middlesbrough, Milton Keynes, Neath Port Talbot, New Forest, Newark & Sherwood, Newcastle-under-Lyme, Newport, North Devon, North Dorset, North East Derbyshire, North East Lincolnshire, North Kesteven North Lincolnshire, North Norfolk, North Somerset, North Tyneside, North Warwickshire, North West Leicestershire, Northumberland, Nottingham, Nuneaton & Bedworth, Oadby & Wigston, Oldham, Pembrokeshire, Pendle, Peterborough, Plymouth, Poole, Portsmouth, Powys, Preston, Purbeck, Redcar & Cleveland, Redditch, Reigate & Banstead, Rhondda Cynon Taf, Ribble Valley, Richmondshire, Rochdale, Rochford, Rossendale, Rother, Rotherham, Rugby, Runnymede, Rushmoor, Rutland, Ryedale, Salford, Sandwell, Scarborough, Sedgemoor, Selby, Sevenoaks, Sheffield, Shepway, Shropshire, Slough, Solihull, South Bucks, South Derbyshire, South Gloucestershire, South Holland, South Kesteven, South Norfolk, South Northamptonshire, South Ribble, South Somerset, South Staffordshire, South Tyneside, Southampton, Southend-on-Sea, Spelthorne, St Edmundsbury, St Helens, Stafford, Staffordshire Moorlands, Stevenage,Stockton-on-Tees, Stoke-on-Trent, Stratford-on-Avon, Suffolk Coastal, Sunderland, Surrey Heath, Sutton, Swale, Swansea, Swindon, Tameside, Tamworth, Tandridge, Taunton Deane, Teignbridge, Telford & Wrekin, Tendring, Test Valley, Tewkesbury, Thanet, Three Rivers, Thurrock, Tonbridge & Malling, Torbay, Torfaen, Torridge, Uttlesford, Wakefield, Walsall, Warrington, Watford, Waveney, Wealden, Wellingborough, Welwyn Hatfield, West Devon, West Dorset, West Lancashire, West Lindsey, West Somerset, Weymouth & Portland, Wigan, Wiltshire, Wolverhampton, Worcester, Worthing, Wrexham, Wychavon, Wyre, Wyre Forest

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In a few areas like Boston, Lincs I have no doubt it's true, immigration has caused local problems and the leave vote reflected that. However, of the top 10 vote leave areas that is the ONLY one where non-UK born population (15.2%) was higher than the national average of 13.3%. In what appears to be a direct contradiction of what you wrote the area with the lowest leave vote (21%) lambeth 38% of the population are non UK-born.

http://theconversation.com/hard-evidence-how-areas-with-low-immigration-voted-mainly-for-brexit-62138

Anyway my bags are nearly packed and I'm very much looking forward to becoming an immigrant, oh sorry perhaps I should use the PC term "expat" here. Well until I get my Irish citizenship and passport that is.

TL;DR, bye.

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Anyway my bags are nearly packed and I'm very much looking forward to becoming an immigrant, oh sorry perhaps I should use the PC term "expat" here. Well until I get my Irish citizenship and passport that is.

Good luck - probably a good move - long long wait (if it ever will arrive) until the UK becomes a place to fulfill aspirations rather than just survive.

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I didn't expect thread to focus so much on immigration :)

Yes, immigration was mentioned by Peter as contributing to the problem, but he discussed many other topics as well, such as:

- Our housing policy has been a catastrophe for many years

- The sale of council houses

- Housing benefit is an immensely expensive way of trying to house people

- Governments covering up their failure to create a productive economy by pumping up housing bubbles

- Huge national debt of £1.5 trillion

- Constant use of pumping money into housing to try and save themselves from serious economic decisions

Victoria Coren Mitchel also had some valid points:

- There needs to be a proper housing revolution

- It's not about immigration, It's about the cost of the housing and the type of housing being built

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I didn't expect thread to focus so much on immigration :)

Yes, immigration was mentioned by Peter as contributing to the problem, but he discussed many other topics as well, such as:

- Our housing policy has been a catastrophe for many years

- The sale of council houses

- Housing benefit is an immensely expensive way of trying to house people

- Governments covering up their failure to create a productive economy by pumping up housing bubbles

- Huge national debt of £1.5 trillion

- Constant use of pumping money into housing to try and save themselves from serious economic decisions

Victoria Coren Mitchel also had some valid points:

- There needs to be a proper housing revolution

- It's not about immigration, It's about the cost of the housing and the type of housing being built

I think we all agree on these points,hence why there is no debate.

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Because the immigration argument is a fallacy. Germany and France have much more affordable housing yet take in many more migrants as a percentage of population size.

As does Spain which builds a lot more houses. However as we seem incapable of building enough homes then surely immigration must be a factor.

It is of course not the immigrants' fault that our planning system etc is incapable of building the homes we need however without them we would need less.

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It's not an either/or debate - uncontrolled immigration exacerbates underlying problems.

Yes, I agree completely.

A lot of people (not so much on this site but others I read) think the ONLY cause of hpi is high immigration, when in reality it's probably 5th or so down the list of causes.

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E

Yes, I agree completely.

A lot of people (not so much on this site but others I read) think the ONLY cause of hpi is high immigration, when in reality it's probably 5th or so down the list of causes.

+1

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