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May Revives Industrial Policy

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30 years after Thatcher killed it off.

A classic example of the saying if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth....

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A classic example of the saying if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth....

? :huh:

If you think that Thatcher's supporters of free-market monetarism didn't ultimately kill off British Industry (Industry that did indeed need Union reform but decent investment and strategy akin to Germany) then I think you need to read the architects of that policy who clearly favoured a switch to a service sector economy and economically shitting on the working classes.

Theresa May is a very clever woman. She waited in the cut in the leadership race and let the other candidates beat each other up.

Don't like the Tories or many of her policies but she knows that if the Tories are to remain viable she has to deal with UKIP in old industrial heartlands and the only way you do that is by investing in those areas through a new industrial policy.

At a time when the private sector refuse to use their stunning stockpiles of cash to actually build and make things in this country, the investment has to be state led to a large degree.

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I am surprised that the list of companies omits JCB and Rolls-Royce. All three car manufacturers mentioned are foreign owned and Nissan were concerned about Brexit.

She will make a priority of developing the industries already based in Britain - a push that could help carmakers like Jaguar Land Rover, GM-owned Vauxhall and Nissan, and aerospace industry leaders like BAE Systems to weather the Brexit storm.

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When we have such expensive housing the wages needed to cover this will make competing impossible.

And the BoE arm of govt is about to attempt to get more credit into the housing market this week. Joined up thinking isn't their greatest strength.

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When we have such expensive housing the wages needed to cover this will make competing impossible.

And the BoE arm of govt is about to attempt to get more credit into the housing market this week. Joined up thinking isn't their greatest strength.

Seriously? Deary me.

ytSJap.gif

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Don't like the Tories or many of her policies but she knows that if the Tories are to remain viable she has to deal with UKIP in old industrial heartlands and the only way you do that is by investing in those areas through a new industrial policy.

At a time when the private sector refuse to use their stunning stockpiles of cash to actually build and make things in this country, the investment has to be state led to a large degree.

May might be politically savvy, but her comments suggest to me that she's an imbecile out of touch with the modern world.

A re-industrialisation policy is actually quite easy for May to get going. In the short-term at least, it would probably help her buy the next election. All she needs to do is approach Tata Steel (and any other struggling industrial's) and offer to take their British operations off their hands. Now that we're out of the EU, she can then put heavy tariff's on Chinese steel and protect steemaking jobs. In one stroke she can say she is safeguarding British industry while giving the finger to the Chinese - that'll certainly go down well. Of course, we're annoying the Chinese, but it's only a small leap after we've already alienated the EU. In the medium to long term, we are going to be stuck pumping billions into a lousy industry that is facing crippling losses. Yuck.

I know it's unpopular here, but the days of any advanced economy having low level industrial/manufacturing capabilities are long dead. That is not to say you ignore industry. The focus should really be on the high level value-add part of the process. That means the R&D, high level designs, sales, marketing, financing, etc. When you look at Rolls Royce for example, they make nothing from manufacturing, where the money comes from is the expertise in design and the servicing of their products. That is one of the reasons why I was appalled by May actually welcoming the sale of ARM Holdings to the Japanese. It's almost like the new industrial policy will be to water the weeds and pull out the flowers. It will all end in tears.

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Of course resurrecting industry and non banking and non housing sectors is a good idea for Britain - but the idea has been used for electioneering purposes for decades now and look where Britain is now with banking and it's housing and house price culture getting ever more embedded in the wrecked economy.

In any event even if she (as an ex employee of the Bank of England) is sincere and determined to achieve such a resurrection it's not going to be an overnight thing and it won't even happen by a 2020 general election - it would need a massive amount of core changes, rebalancing and restructuring etc and that will meet strong opposition from the banking and financial sector (and its political buddies in Parliament) with its preference to undermine any competition to banking's central role in the British economy (undermining through begrudging and half hearted lending policies etc and lobbying for its own interests at the expense of the country's interests) and that includes industrial competition.

What might happen by a 2020 general election is some minor industrial progress of little real significance but sufficient to allow dramatic headlines about improving confidence in industrial performance etc (typically positive headlines related to things like PMI indices etc) for a few months before the general election (usually achieved by interest rate manipulation along with massive increases in debt etc just before an election) which will immediately fade away after the election.

Yet another "white heat of technology" type of announcement for electioneering purposes.

In other words similar to the policy followed by Cameron before the 2015 general election - fine words but of no substance.

Edited by billybong

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I am surprised that the list of companies omits JCB and Rolls-Royce. All three car manufacturers mentioned are foreign owned and Nissan were concerned about Brexit.

Once we are outside the EU Nissan will want to move production back to France (France, not EE, because there is already huge political pressure to do this).

Sunderland is unlikely to get production work on any new models meaning run down will start by 2020.

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May might be politically savvy, but her comments suggest to me that she's an imbecile out of touch with the modern world.

A re-industrialisation policy is actually quite easy for May to get going. In the short-term at least, it would probably help her buy the next election. All she needs to do is approach Tata Steel (and any other struggling industrial's) and offer to take their British operations off their hands. Now that we're out of the EU, she can then put heavy tariff's on Chinese steel and protect steemaking jobs. In one stroke she can say she is safeguarding British industry while giving the finger to the Chinese - that'll certainly go down well. Of course, we're annoying the Chinese, but it's only a small leap after we've already alienated the EU. In the medium to long term, we are going to be stuck pumping billions into a lousy industry that is facing crippling losses. Yuck.

I know it's unpopular here, but the days of any advanced economy having low level industrial/manufacturing capabilities are long dead. That is not to say you ignore industry. The focus should really be on the high level value-add part of the process. That means the R&D, high level designs, sales, marketing, financing, etc. When you look at Rolls Royce for example, they make nothing from manufacturing, where the money comes from is the expertise in design and the servicing of their products. That is one of the reasons why I was appalled by May actually welcoming the sale of ARM Holdings to the Japanese. It's almost like the new industrial policy will be to water the weeds and pull out the flowers. It will all end in tears.

100% Agree. I couldn't understand how anyone could think the sale of what was by far our most important tech company was a good thing.

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Reviving industrial policy just in time for the incoming and ongoing massive robotic/computer revolution, whereby most people will lose their jobs.

China is already investing heavily in factories devoid of human workers.

Any industrial policy devised as of today should feature almost no human workers at all. The aim should be to have 95% fully automated robot factories. Anything else and we will be ruthless undercut and destroyed.

May needs to wake up.

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She will make a priority of developing subsidizing the industries already based in Britain - a push that could help carmakers like Jaguar Land Rover, GM-owned Vauxhall and Nissan, and aerospace industry leaders like BAE Systems to weather the Brexit storm.

Teesside Steelworks might be "resurrected" as well - if only for possible asset stripping by current owners investment firm Greybull Capital (etc) with a possible view to turning it to new housing.

Edited by billybong

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Once we are outside the EU Nissan will want to move production back to France (France, not EE, because there is already huge political pressure to do this).

Sunderland is unlikely to get production work on any new models meaning run down will start by 2020.

Nonsense - Nissan have poured money in, it's one of the most efficient factories in Europe. And the UK government, not the EU, are funding Nissan I believe. I doubt the French would be so generous. Hardly an attractive country to invest in either, with their labour laws.

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Nonsense - Nissan have poured money in, it's one of the most efficient factories in Europe. And the UK government, not the EU, are funding Nissan I believe. I doubt the French would be so generous. Hardly an attractive country to invest in either, with their labour laws.

It's nothing to do with the relative attractiveness in terms of efficient metal bashing, if that was the case they would be moving production to EE.

Nissan/Renault will soon have the choice of giving new models to Sunderland, and at vast political/financial cost closing car plants in France, or at no political and much less financial cost running down Sunderland.

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? :huh:

If you think that Thatcher's supporters of free-market monetarism didn't ultimately kill off British Industry (Industry that did indeed need Union reform but decent investment and strategy akin to Germany) then I think you need to read the architects of that policy who clearly favoured a switch to a service sector economy and economically shitting on the working classes.

Theresa May is a very clever woman. She waited in the cut in the leadership race and let the other candidates beat each other up.

Don't like the Tories or many of her policies but she knows that if the Tories are to remain viable she has to deal with UKIP in old industrial heartlands and the only way you do that is by investing in those areas through a new industrial policy.

At a time when the private sector refuse to use their stunning stockpiles of cash to actually build and make things in this country, the investment has to be state led to a large degree.

I would like and hope that is right ....but i see just more promises of even more jam tomorrow

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It's nothing to do with the relative attractiveness in terms of efficient metal bashing, if that was the case they would be moving production to EE.

Nissan/Renault will soon have the choice of giving new models to Sunderland, and at vast political/financial cost closing car plants in France, or at no political and much less financial cost running down Sunderland.

What cross platforms do Renault/Nissan share ? other than Nissan useing Renault diesel engines

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What cross platforms do Renault/Nissan share ? other than Nissan useing Renault diesel engines

We are talking about new models not, necessarily on today's platforms.

BFWIW some Nisson production has already been transferred to an underutilized Renault plant - cannot recall which but Google will know.

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30 years after Thatcher killed it off.

let's not be too harsh on thatcher.

her actions cam about mainly because the trade unions pretty much held britain to ransom at the back end of the 70's....like blocking coal mines/coking plants that used to produce the fuel for the steelworks etc.

yes,she closed quite a lot down,and sold quite a few on to get rid of the unions, which if the TU's had been sensible and accepted a performance related pay structure,rather than demanding something for nothing,might have still survived.

in an age where everybody is now worried about the amount of outsourcing of production/insourcing of unskilled labour(not to mention national security implications, the trade unions about indigenous control of fuel,food and transport), if the trade unions play it right, they might find themselves a few more sympathetic ears in the government who agree that offshoring everything has gone too far.

however,having the rest of the country over a barrel with regards basic necessities like last time is not an option.

they will have to accept a slightly better role in improved domestic industry, not complete control over everything like they used to have.

(yes I'm still old enough to remember 3 day weeks,power cuts for days,bins not emptied for weeks,6 month waiting lists for GPO telephones and the ridicule of british rail sandwiches)...some things have improved since then, some things still need a lot of work.

I'd tend to agree that privatising some things(like railtrack) was a bit of a f***,up....considering there's now something like 40-odd seperate train franchises that seem not to talk to each other...

would have been better splitting up into maybe 10 or 12 regional groups, plus 1 each for semi-fast cross country(uk wide) and fast intercity(uk wide).

that way, if you do decide to do lands end to john o'groats, you have 3 options with varying speeds and commensurate price tags.

Edited by oracle

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Reviving industrial policy just in time for the incoming and ongoing massive robotic/computer revolution, whereby most people will lose their jobs.

China is already investing heavily in factories devoid of human workers.

Any industrial policy devised as of today should feature almost no human workers at all. The aim should be to have 95% fully automated robot factories. Anything else and we will be ruthless undercut and destroyed.

well.

here is where we can make a start.

https://s14-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http:%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-nScCpfrpsQw%2FU5xzTyUeyJI%2FAAAAAAAAlUM%2F4VR9jCYyOD8%2Fs1600%2Ff.jpg&sp=49b0f2b5d15f873c6ac4f491b5ed250f

what's wrong with this picture?

rolling stock is modern enough.....

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I missed the bit about opening up coal mines, setting up manufacture of Stephenson’s “Rocket” and building a navy out of long boats to take control of the world's commodities. What else is she gonna do to make Britain great again?

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I know it's unpopular here, but the days of any advanced economy having low level industrial/manufacturing capabilities are long dead. That is not to say you ignore industry. The focus should really be on the high level value-add part of the process. That means the R&D, high level designs, sales, marketing, financing, etc. When you look at Rolls Royce for example, they make nothing from manufacturing, where the money comes from is the expertise in design and the servicing of their products. That is one of the reasons why I was appalled by May actually welcoming the sale of ARM Holdings to the Japanese. It's almost like the new industrial policy will be to water the weeds and pull out the flowers. It will all end in tears.

That makes Rolls Royce's current inability to make a decent return on their assets even more worrying.

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