Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Mrs Bear

111 Call - Tick Box Brainlessness

Recommended Posts

Daughter had baby no. 2 a few days ago, and the other night phoned 111 for advice for herself, related to the birth.

She began by saying she'd had a baby just 4 days previously, and after a few other questions the call centre person said, 'Is there any chance you could be pregnant?'

Again my d explained that she'd only just had a baby, so this was impossible.

Several more tick-box questions later the girl said, 'Just a safety question - is there any chance you could be pregnant?'

Where do they find these people? Or is it the case that if they don't stick rigidly to a script, regardless of commonsense in such cases, they get the sack?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Daughter had baby no. 2 a few days ago, and the other night phoned 111 for advice for herself, related to the birth.

She began by saying she'd had a baby just 4 days previously, and after a few other questions the call centre person said, 'Is there any chance you could be pregnant?'

Again my d explained that she'd only just had a baby, so this was impossible.

Several more tick-box questions later the girl said, 'Just a safety question - is there any chance you could be pregnant?'

Where do they find these people? Or is it the case that if they don't stick rigidly to a script, regardless of commonsense in such cases, they get the sack?

The latter.

I know a nurse who quit working in a hospital to work on one of these lines but within a year had gone back to the hospital. To be frank though, she felt that working on the phone line was much harder than being a nurse in the hospital.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A rigid script cannot excuse this clear case of stupidity. More than a bit concerning, imo.

Yes but they will get marked for quality control by following the script. The person reviewing the call will give top marks for being a robot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes but they will get marked for quality control by following the script. The person reviewing the call will give top marks for being a robot.

Then it's a stupid script if it doesn't allow for any intelligence in use (ie "if patient has already answered this, move on to next item")

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then it's a stupid script if it doesn't allow for any intelligence in use (ie "if patient has already answered this, move on to next item")

But intelligence and any form of professional judgement is being weeded out of loads of jobs. see the rise of poorly qualified 'assessors' in vocational education and training. Yards of tick boxes to prove that the candidate can perform a certain function No sign of them actually having being taught how to perform it though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The call is probably being recorded. If they don't get an answer then they can't move on as to do so would mean they've made an assumption. Making assumptions (incorrect ones) is what the scripts are designed to avoid. Intelligence has been designed out of these systems for a reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But intelligence and any form of professional judgement is being weeded out of loads of jobs. see the rise of poorly qualified 'assessors' in vocational education and training. Yards of tick boxes to prove that the candidate can perform a certain function No sign of them actually having being taught how to perform it though

Similar to job interviews all about ticking the boxes for being a good corporate clone. Everyone has to think the same which is why everthing is fecked. A world screwed by hr. It's also the reason why the Rotherham child abuse happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The call is probably being recorded. If they don't get an answer then they can't move on as to do so would mean they've made an assumption. Making assumptions (incorrect ones) is what the scripts are designed to avoid. Intelligence has been designed out of these systems for a reason.

+1

They are also designed to avoid clinical decisions - if you give an 'incorrect' answer the flow diagram will invariably tell them to tell you to go to a&e or your GP

It's used to filter out a lot hypochondriacs yet protect the NHS from being sued even though they are utilising cheaper grade medical staff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because the population is so large now, we should all be used to working with systems, and standard procedures and algorithms that manage large numbers of people.

Gone are the days where one doctor would look after 100 people in the village, and have an half an hour to each patient talking about the patient's new puppies.

Now he/she has to look after 2-3000+ around the clock. Systems are in place to filter down patients to those that need the doctor OR if a the patient can be sign posted to a nurse, pharmacist, dentist, optician etc. A call handler who does not have the medical experience cannot make assumptions and must follow the script - we got to understand that.

Just to let you know, this packet of peanuts may contain peanuts (in 50 languages). Please let us know if you need more help BEFORE eating the peanut OK?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because the population is so large now, we should all be used to working with systems, and standard procedures and algorithms that manage large numbers of people.

Gone are the days where one doctor would look after 100 people in the village, and have an half an hour to each patient talking about the patient's new puppies.

Now he/she has to look after 2-3000+ around the clock. Systems are in place to filter down patients to those that need the doctor OR if a the patient can be sign posted to a nurse, pharmacist, dentist, optician etc. A call handler who does not have the medical experience cannot make assumptions and must follow the script - we got to understand that.

Just to let you know, this packet of peanuts may contain peanuts (in 50 languages). Please let us know if you need more help BEFORE eating the peanut OK?

That's not a function of the size of the population. You could still have the same proportion of GPs. In fact you should be able to have proportionally more as you scale up production in manufacturing, logistics etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Similar to job interviews all about ticking the boxes for being a good corporate clone. Everyone has to think the same which is why everthing is fecked. A world screwed by hr. It's also the reason why the Rotherham child abuse happened.

And why I never get offered the post - honestly cannot for the life of me work out what the answer should be. Lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's not a function of the size of the population. You could still have the same proportion of GPs. In fact you should be able to have proportionally more as you scale up production in manufacturing, logistics etc.

In an ideal world, the GP/Ratio would remain constant. They have no money to pay for more GPs, although they keep saying there's a shortage and a high vacancy rate. It's the high work load that makes GPs unhappy, once they go into General Practice, and then give up general practice (BBC anecdotal interview on the radio). If GP's did have fewer patients and more time, I'm sure they would not quit. It's the same with A&E departments (Chief of an A&E dept interview). But it is unlikely we'll ever go back to the "ye ole good days".

In my surgery, they have a wooden board of all the names of the doctors that have joined and left. Pre-2000 the doctors stay for 10+ years. After 2000, they stay for about 2 years (another anecdote).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In an ideal world, the GP/Ratio would remain constant. They have no money to pay for more GPs, although they keep saying there's a shortage and a high vacancy rate. It's the high work load that makes GPs unhappy, once they go into General Practice, and then give up general practice (BBC anecdotal interview on the radio). If GP's did have fewer patients and more time, I'm sure they would not quit. It's the same with A&E departments (Chief of an A&E dept interview). But it is unlikely we'll ever go back to the "ye ole good days".

In my surgery, they have a wooden board of all the names of the doctors that have joined and left. Pre-2000 the doctors stay for 10+ years. After 2000, they stay for about 2 years (another anecdote).

I'm not disputing the idea that GPs now have to serve thousands instead of hundreds, only the idea that increasing population makes this inevitable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1

They are also designed to avoid clinical decisions - if you give an 'incorrect' answer the flow diagram will invariably tell them to tell you to go to a&e or your GP

It's used to filter out a lot hypochondriacs yet protect the NHS from being sued even though they are utilising cheaper grade medical staff

These call lines are a triage operation.

In my job, we call regularly 111, and the result depends on the answers to the questions. a nurse will follow up, a paramedic sent, whatever the first line questioning begins.

In the case of many calls from elderly and the mentally impaired, they will forget things like they are pregnant, and the second asking is check because the other symptoms checked involve the lady being pregnant.

Annoying, but with the wide variety of calls they get, they do have to double check.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not disputing the idea that GPs now have to serve thousands instead of hundreds, only the idea that increasing population makes this inevitable.

Rapid population increase makes it inevitable (can't adjust other things quickly enough), all more reasons why it's such a fecking disaster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The call is probably being recorded. If they don't get an answer then they can't move on as to do so would mean they've made an assumption. Making assumptions (incorrect ones) is what the scripts are designed to avoid. Intelligence has been designed out of these systems for a reason.

Sounds likely.

Add to that, the certainty that someone having lots of these conversations is always at risk of confusing your reply with what someone else recently told them in a similar but not identical exchange.

Purely at a barroom bore level, I'd imagine a woman who gave birth four days ago still has some of the medical attributes of pregnancy - and not just adjustments to her curvy bits. Lots of hormones associated with feeding and protecting the sprog.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rapid population increase makes it inevitable (can't adjust other things quickly enough), all more reasons why it's such a fecking disaster.

The population had increased dramatically in the post war years, and it certainly hasn't increased by orders of magnitude in the last 30 or so

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.....if firms treat their employees as if they are machines, they no longer value or use their gift of common sense you can understand why they replace them with machines and automated voice activated telephone speaking and button pushing computers...... ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds likely.

Add to that, the certainty that someone having lots of these conversations is always at risk of confusing your reply with what someone else recently told them in a similar but not identical exchange.

Purely at a barroom bore level, I'd imagine a woman who gave birth four days ago still has some of the medical attributes of pregnancy - and not just adjustments to her curvy bits. Lots of hormones associated with feeding and protecting the sprog.

Unsurprisingly there is a massive hormonal upheaval not long after giving birth. I believe it's one of the reasons some women get post natal depression, or just get weepy for no apparent reason.

Glad to say none of this applied to my d. It was just a small but very uncomfortable physical thing, and quickly eased once she finally saw the after-hours GP.

New little grandson now 8 days old - we've gone from no grandchildren to 2 inside 15 months! One of each!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   29 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.