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Converted Lurker

Bubb I Hope You Don`t Mind Me Linking This

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Always a refreshingly naive experience, `tis akin to watching sixth formers come up with business plans for A level..Anyhow caught this thread re. BMV

http://www.singingpig.co.uk/forums/1/10282...ost.aspx#102826

Now I`m sorry, but this fantasy world where desperate buyers sell at 25% BMV just does not exist IMHO. There are plenty of ways out of a property before selling it at 25% below some young spivs valuation. Are most of the contributors there so much in denial, or so deluded that they actually believe its happening, or that it is a possibility?

I despair for that proposition, the suggestion is that the site offers help/advice/discussion to anyone starting a business, 99% of the content relates to property :o

Probably the other single per cent advises on how to buy a cash convertors franchise <_<

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Now I`m sorry, but this fantasy world where desperate buyers sell at 25% BMV just does not exist IMHO. There are plenty of ways out of a property before selling it at 25% below some young spivs valuation. Are most of the contributors there so much in denial, or so deluded that they actually believe its happening, or that it is a possibility?

I despair for that proposition, the suggestion is that the site offers help/advice/discussion to anyone starting a business, 99% of the content relates to property :o

Probably the other single per cent advises on how to buy a cash convertors franchise <_<

IF, and its a massive IF, someone sold 25% below "Market Value" then they are only proving the argument that this web site stands for.

Anyone stupid enough to sell 25% below the level that the next buyer could sell for is either desperate to be rid of a depreciating asset, under severe financial pressure (eg repossesion on the way) or sick of trying to sell a property at "Market Value" for 12 months without an offer.

Any of those reasons prove that properties are sliding. If speculators can make money on the way down then good luck to them - personally I think the risk is too great.

If I could be bothered, I would challenge anyone on the SP to post a link to http://www.houseprices.co.uk identifying a property that they flipped in 2005/2006 showing a 25% gain for the lucky second vendor.

What's that noise? The sound of silence...... confused-smiley-013.gif

They are all talking about it, and none of them are doing it.

Xil.

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IF, and its a massive IF, someone sold 25% below "Market Value" then they are only proving the argument that this web site stands for.

Anyone stupid enough to sell 25% below the level that the next buyer could sell for is either desperate to be rid of a depreciating asset, under severe financial pressure (eg repossesion on the way) or sick of trying to sell a property at "Market Value" for 12 months without an offer.

Any of those reasons prove that properties are sliding. If speculators can make money on the way down then good luck to them - personally I think the risk is too great.

If I could be bothered, I would challenge anyone on the SP to post a link to http://www.houseprices.co.uk identifying a property that they flipped in 2005/2006 showing a 25% gain for the lucky second vendor.

What's that noise? The sound of silence...... confused-smiley-013.gif

They are all talking about it, and none of them are doing it.

Xil.

hi,

I am quite surprised that they haven't yet latched onto that woman's idea in the papers yesterday to hold a raffle for the properties. Healthy market, huh? It is starting to sound a bit like the last crash now with these stories emerging of stranded sellers. I think a fair number of FTB's will not likely remember this aspect of a sick housing market, the frustration of putting your life on hold because you cannot sell, watching te market falling around you. It really was not a long time ago, every decade or so it rears it 's ugly head again.

boomer

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I wonder how many "below market value" properties these people are seeing..?

3005 inflation in 7 years after a 50% defaltion in five.. which had followed 7 years of inflation..

and these special cases think they are buying below market value..

No one has any idea what market value is..

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I am not the only one on SP expressing concerns about the assumptions of the BMV crowd:

EXCERPT

"True market value: This is causing me some concern.

Many posters on here are saying that they are buying at around 75% of mv. I'm curious to know whether this is 75% of what they are confident of getting for the property if sold on, or 75% of what an estate agent or mortgage lender is willing to value it at.

... Are people genuinely having success negotiating vendors down to a true 75% - 80% mv?"

...MORE: http://www.singingpig.co.uk/forums/103003/ShowPost.aspx

Given the bizarre mindset of the contributors there, I did begin to wonder if the whole edifice had been created by and continually promoted by individuals desperate enough to get out of the entrenched positions that they`d create a site with one specific purpose, to ramp property whilst they quietly exited. I ask you, "Anyone had any success leaving their BMV leaflets at the divorce courts?" That guy with multi personality disorder seems less visible lately, although enough of them have existed here recently...

Edited by Converted Lurker

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Am I being naive here? If someone sells you something at 25% below market value, then you should be able to make money whatever happens.

The question is that if you have just paid £300,000 for something, how do you know it is really worth £400,000?

Or is there something about the BMV debate on SP that I am missing?

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Given the bizarre mindset of the contributors there, I did begin to wonder if the whole edifice had been created by and continually promoted by individuals desperate enough to get out of the entrenched positions that they`d create a site with one specific purpose, to ramp property whilst they quietly exited.

Look at it another way...

You could say the same about the (now desperate?) STRs who set up and promote this website... one specific purpose... to cause a HPC so they could quietly buy back in to make a profit.

Wonder how many STRs who STRd in 2003 are slowly sinking... prices have gone UP.... not down...

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Look at it another way...

You could say the same about the (now desperate?) STRs who set up and promote this website... one specific purpose... to cause a HPC so they could quietly buy back in to make a profit.

Wonder how many STRs who STRd in 2003 are slowly sinking... prices have gone UP.... not down...

Most of the posts I read are from happy STR's.

Of course with hindsight those who STR'd in early/mid 2003 did so a bit before the peak, that doesn't however make it a mistake.

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Most of the posts I read are from happy STR's.

Of course with hindsight those who STR'd in early/mid 2003 did so a bit before the peak, that doesn't however make it a mistake.

And as we all know, from 2003 until now, there are many good investments which have outperformed housing. So definately not a mistake. Almost certainly the right thing to do infact.

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Some truths in what has been said but also some massive and naive generalistions.

Now I`m sorry, but this fantasy world where desperate buyers sell at 25% BMV just does not exist IMHO. There are plenty of ways out of a property before selling it at 25% below some young spivs valuation. Are most of the contributors there so much in denial, or so deluded that they actually believe its happening, or that it is a possibility?

It happenning day in day out.

There's no such thing as BMV.

You can only buy property at MV.

Wrong. As apom rightly pointed out. What is market value? What you can assess to some degree is CURRENT market PRICE, i.e. what properties are currently selling for in the current timeframe.

Rightmove, nethouseprices etc etc all allow yo to establish what a realistic current markeyt price is within seconds.

What you must understand about BMV (which has been around forever not just post 2000) is that in the majority of deals, the property will be bough at say £75,000 and THERE WILL ALREADY BE A BUYER LINED UP at say £92,000 with contracts being exchanged on both sales almost simultaneously so that the BMV buyer has little or no risk.

A colleage completed on one such deal Friday just gone. Bought at £62,000 with a current value of £87,500 and completed on 13th (!) for £86,000. Total deal included 5 visits to the property totalling 1.5 hours in all and a few calls to the bank, agents and solicitors.

Your right in saying that this does indeed prove your point that the market has stopped or is slipping or that there are people in financial problems.

But what it also proves is that there is still money to be made from property.

So in a way we are all right.

Which is nice. ;)

Edited by lookingafterthekids

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Some truths in what has been said but also some massive and naive generalistions.

It happenning day in day out.

Wrong. As apom rightly pointed out. What is market value? What you can assess to some degree is CURRENT market PRICE, i.e. what properties are currently selling for in the current timeframe.

Rightmove, nethouseprices etc etc all allow yo to establish what a realistic current markeyt price is within seconds.

What you must understand about BMV (which has been around forever not just post 2000) is that in the majority of deals, the property will be bough at say £75,000 and THERE WILL ALREADY BE A BUYER LINED UP at say £92,000 with contracts being exchanged on both sales almost simultaneously so that the BMV buyer has little or no risk.

A colleage completed on one such deal Friday just gone. Bought at £62,000 with a current value of £87,500 and completed on 13th (!) for £86,000. Total deal included 5 visits to the property totalling 1.5 hours in all and a few calls to the bank, agents and solicitors.

Your right in saying that this does indeed prove your point that the market has stopped or is slipping or that there are people in financial problems.

But what it also proves is that there is still money to be made from property.

So in a way we are all right.

Which is nice. ;)

Hahahaha..looks like we are both right Bubb B)

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Guest muttley

EXACTLY.

Maybe it should be referred to as BAP. Below Asking Price?

Or Can't Reach Asking Price.

We've got a lot round here.

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A colleague of mine bought a load of property in the nineties as BTLs.

He bought them at AUCTION cheaply.

You guys can laugh and backslap each other all day about your 'no such thing as BMV' theory but you CAN buy property 'on the cheap' at any point in the housing cycle.

If you buy at auction and sell at a higher price asap then how would you define the market value of this property?

MV at the lower price or the higher?

Does the market value of a property REALLY change that quickly?

You lot can laugh.... others will make money while you laugh.

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Guest muttley

A colleague of mine bought a load of property in the nineties as BTLs.

He bought them at AUCTION cheaply.

You guys can laugh and backslap each other all day about your 'no such thing as BMV' theory but you CAN buy property 'on the cheap' at any point in the housing cycle.

If you buy at auction and sell at a higher price asap then how would you define the market value of this property?

MV at the lower price or the higher?

Does the market value of a property REALLY change that quickly?

You lot can laugh.... others will make money while you laugh.

I think most of us on here are well aware of the AMV theory.

If it makes it easier for you I believe we are entering an extended period of BMV.

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A colleague of mine bought a load of property in the nineties as BTLs.

You lot can laugh.... others will make money while you laugh.

Could you maybe come up with a more recent example?

No... didn't think so. :P

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It's hilarious. Someopne just asked a very pertinent question about bmv (if u can do it now at 25% whats to stop you doing it next year at the THEN 25% bmv i.e. todays 45% bmv)

That's possibly the most embarrasingly daft thing I've heard you say on here CIUW. :lol:

Tell me CIUW, you're saying "why make ANY profit this year if I can make a bigger profit in 2007?

So you're suggesting to do NOTHING this year in terms of net profit (why does this not surprise me?) because next year profits are going to be bigger?

Ermmmm... why not make a profit this year and invest the profit into NEXT year and make an even bigger profit?

That's how business works, CIUW. Have you got a proper job or are you too stupid? Or are you waiting until wages rise so you can get a better hourly rate? :lol::lol::lol::lol:

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I think most of us on here are well aware of the AMV theory.

If it makes it easier for you I believe we are entering an extended period of BMV.

You've missed the point. You can buy houses at auction and flip them at ANY time during the housing cycle. i.e even today.

So my point still stands. If you buy at auction and sell quickly at profit, how do you define the market value?

Similarly, if you buy at a high price, and have to sell ultra quickly at a knock down price (for whatever reason) then what is the MV of this property?

You see it works both ways....

Could you maybe come up with a more recent example?

No... didn't think so. :P

Another example of someone who has missed the point...

YOU CAN BUY PROPERTY CHEAPLY AT AUCTIONS.

Do you really think that property flippers only look in estate agents' windows?

Edited by Without_a_Paddle

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Guest muttley

You've missed the point. You can buy houses at auction and flip them at ANY time during the housing cycle. i.e even today.

So my point still stands. If you buy at auction and sell quickly at profit, how do you define the market value?

Similarly, if you buy at a high price, and have to sell ultra quickly at a knock down price (for whatever reason) then what is the MV of this property?

I didn't miss the point at all.And I accept that you can make money in a falling market.However,I reckon that the easy money has already been made.The Johnny-come-lately property developers may very well fall for a BMV sales pitch,but many will lose money.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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